Rice is one our D considered…not now.
“Huge” drop etc is a relative issue, but Kansas gives hope.
3 Likes
Ok Rice.
My wife went to Rice. She’s a Rice alum interviewer for a New England state.
Ill let you know if she doesnt get any interviews for our state this year.
I understand the outrage but I think people are overestimating the impact, especially at the highly selective schools.
2 Likes
Great. If you are reading carefully, my emphasis is on “we”. I really don’t care what others do.
However, since you are concerned, perhaps Kansas gives a clue?
1 Like
Im not concerned.
Im only stating my opinions on what I believe will happen for college admissions in Texas. I have no idea what will happen in Kansas. Im not from there and dont know anyone there.
You EMPHATICALLY disagreed and believed it will (in Texas). We’ll see.
This is not my political belief. Both my wife and I are pro-choice. This is what I think will happen as it relates to the topic.
1 Like
Res ipsa loquitor. By contrast, we ARE concerned.
Good night.
9 Likes
Over 50 percent of Rice’s domestic students are from outside of Texas. While Rice will continue to draw plenty of applicants from every state, some out-of-state kids who would have otherwise considered Rice “will stop applying” given the current legal landscape, or they will otherwise choose other options over Rice if they have them. It will probably be hard to tell whether this shift results in a marginal declines in the quality of OOS students that Rice is able to enroll, but IMO it is unlikely that your wife’s interviewing experience will provide much useful information in this regard.
Regardless, I don’t think that many here are primarily concerned with the impact on Rice or any other Texas school. Rather, they are focused on the potential impact of the law on their kids and other kids.
15 Likes
Some colleges may be concerned, but the usual assumed examples would be colleges like Oberlin.
2 Likes
STEM schools tend to have a male-heavy student enrollment, so I wouldn’t expect a pronounced change there. And schools with mainly in-state attendees probably won’t see much of a change either.
I agree with the examples above - liberal-arts schools with a large out of state student body will probably see the biggest impact.
It might be interesting to take a look at it from a different angle next year - will applications (and enrollment rates) change at flagship schools in pro-choice states like CA? I’m curious how the numbers will look at the big UCs (UCLA, Cal, etc) next year, for example.
There have always been liberal colleges in conservative states or conservative areas of a state. Colorado College is an example. Colorado Springs is in a very conservative area of the state but the students there who want a liberal campus benefit from being in a more liberal state. They can watch Denver or national news, can intern for senators or congressmen from other parts of the state, can even attend churches in other areas if they want to. It does take effort by the student to find the way. Atlanta has always been more liberal than Georgia as a whole, so Emery students, GA Tech students may not experience conservative views as much or may be able to ‘work with it more’ than say a student in a very conservative school in a very conservative county. Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane all have students willing to live in the bubble
2 Likes
The article’s opinion is that students may not choose schools in states where abortion access is eliminated. Im focussing on that point of discussion - whether kids wont go to a red state school because of the Supreme Court ruling.
My assertion is that Roe vs Wade wont materially impact applications to the biggest (and most prestigious) schools in Texas (I only use Texas because Im from there).
My point on Rice - most kids who apply to Rice focus on STEM. Many are Asian students who want to study sciences. It’s not the same demographics as kids choosing a LAC in the Northeast. A lot of liberal kids wouldnt attend a school in Texas anyway (even prior to the Supreme Court ruling). It’s 50% OOS because they want geographic diversity - not because they have to. My uncle’s daughter was Valedictorian of a 600 kid class and she was rejected by Rice. The son of my wife’s former boss was rejected by Rice and he’s going to Brown to study astrophysics. They could field an entire class of Texas kids who score 1500+ on their SATs with a 4.0 GPA. IMO, most people in Texas consider Rice one notch below the Ivies.
Also, many kids OOS will continue to apply to Rice regardless because of STEM. Rice is much more liberal than other Texas schools but they could lose a few hundred applications and still field a class with no drop off in academic ability.
The University of Texas is hyper competitive for out of state kids because of the 6% in state auto admit. The most competitive OOS majors are business, engineering, and CS. Im not sure how many kids they’ll lose but it probably wont be enough to make a difference.
The other major schools in Texas are more conservative. Baylor, Texas A&M, SMU etc. They could care less if liberals from CA or the Northeast chose not to apply.
It’s very unfortunate that 18-21 year olds wont have full acces to medical options but IMO, the overal impact of the ruling on colleges may be more limited than the article (or some posters here) may want to believe.
4 Likes
I think I mentioned upthread that I also did not see the big drop for a school like Rice because of their STEM emphasis.
There are more qualified applicants that apply to a school such as Rice than they can admit.
What we don’t know yet is if the applicant who was qualified but not admitted last year, a similar stat applicant will end up being admitted this year. We don’t know how a school such as Rice will have to admit more to have their yield or how many they might have to admit off their waitlist to make their yield. That’s something no one will know until after this admiration cycle.
And engineering programs all over, compete for female applicants. Will there be a drop in female applicants for an expensive private school such as Rice. So Rice may have to admit more male students to make up their freshman class.
Public schools such as the University of Texas, Ohio state university (sneaky hard to get into as an instate applicant) will probably not have any problems filling their classes. In state public universities admit in state students who may share the conservative views of the state. They have monetary restraints. They are drawn by the school spirit and many majors to pick from.
But there’s a handful of schools that while we don’t know, may have a hard time with applications and their yield. We’ve been trying to discuss those schools. And decisions that parents and students who have the resources to make those choices.
These things are nuanced and complicated. Only the future will see how this plays out.
3 Likes
This could be true regarding the female applicants. Im sure they will lose some kids.
The Washington Post article mentioned that 25% of applicants were from big blue states. What they dont say is how many of those are STEM kids who may go there regardless. Just because they’re from California doesnt mean they would stop attending Rice. And if they were a top notch in-state liberal student, wouldnt they go to UCLA and Berkely instead? Illinois, NY, New England all have a plethora of amazing schools - most of them are liberal. Rice is very self select. You dont randomly choose to go there.
Regarding the costs, Im not a financial aid guru but here’s the Rice “investment”:
< $75k income: Full tuition all fees room and board
$75k-$140k: Full tuition
$140k-$200k: Half tuition.
$200k is a pretty high treshold so Im assuming the maximum most families would pay around $26k for tuition. That’s a very good deal for the education.
I agree with your sentiment that even if some students/parents choose to bypass Texas schools, most Texas schools will not really be affected overall and Rice will not feel much pain from the changes to abortion laws in Texas. Rice had 29554 applicants, 2802 admits, and 1226 students enrolled in their most recent CDS (2021-2022) and could field several more classes of “worthy” students without skipping a beat.
2 Likes
That’s the $64,000 question, isn’t it? How does this play out.
I’m really not interested in debating but let’s say you have a female engineering applicant looking to major in electrical engineering? I say electrical because it has less females majoring in it than other engineering majors. Or computer engineering. For debate purposes, she’s from a midwestern state.
We are going to assume that Pennsylvania elects a governor who supports choice, which we will know in November.
That female applies and is accepted to Lehigh, Bucknell and Rice. She’s full pay or is offered similar aid packages.
The big question is will that student accept Rice all things being equal except that 2 schools are in a state that accepts choice and one that doesn’t.
I would even say that maybe this hypothetical applicant would lean towards Lehigh (or even apply to Lafayette) because of their proximity to New Jersey because that state will have choice no matter November’s election results.
3 Likes
I doubt I’ll ever really know what the impact might be. I do feel that on the whole those who regularly post here are a very small sample size and the opinions represented here towards how the ruling will affect application decisions may not represent the whole. Obviously for many who are posting here it is taken very seriously. It could be that those who might be most negatively affected by the ruling are really not considering it. Either they have no choice economically or they really don’t feel it will affect them. We will see.
7 Likes
I think the impact will be evident if:
The admitted student profile goes down (doubtful)
OOS % goes down (possible, but overall impact will be doubtful)
Female/Male ratio goes down (possible)
I agree with many that it’s an important potential issue that should be considered and weighed when making a college decision. We’ll be visiting Texas and Rice next Spring Break for my 2024 daughter. We’ll let her make a decision whether or not to apply with all the facts and will support her either way.
My main point is I disagree with the article’s contention on the college admissions impact. I think they’re viewing it through their own superficial political lense without understanding the real dynamics of who chooses these schools.
5 Likes
The effect (if any) on an individual college is likely to vary.
But it is likely that each individual college that is concerned (which is probably mostly colleges in situations like Oberlin) will be watching at all stages, including indications from response to marketing efforts and application volume (starting at EA or ED if the college offers it).
1 Like
I agree with you about Oberlin. Oberlin seems to encourage applicants with a particular world view. I could see where many of the people who apply to Oberlin would be very concerned about Ohio laws in this regard. Oberlin does have definite academic strengths so it will be interesting to see how much being in Ohio affects their enrollment.
I have been a registered voter since 1978. I am well aware of this.
3 Likes
I think it was in this thread but maybe it was another one. But someone who grew up in Ohio but no longer lives there made a statement something to the effect how he/she cannot believe what a horror that Ohio has become. At the time (as someone who has lived in Ohio all my life), I thought the statement was actually pretty offensive. But ultimately, different strokes for different folks. Ohio actually has more room for different views than many of the states so popular on this site. But what I have learned from time on this site is many people have little interest in that; they want to be surrounded by people who share their own views. Again, to each his/her own.
Oberlin has always been something of an odd duck. Its not like the state of views in Ohio suddenly turned upside down a month or two ago. I expect some people will look elsewhere. But others won’t. And Oberlin will have to figure it out. A few years back we had a discussion here (think it was with respect to Kenyon) about prospective students seeing political signs for the wrong candidate on their way to a campus visit. If that is problematic for you or your kid, you likely will need to narrow your college search. Again, everyone has different goals, views, etc. We never so restricted our kids in terms of college choices or places to live/visit. And they so far haven’t either. Ultimately, its why they make different flavors of ice cream.
8 Likes