<p>I visited Wash U in the fall and fell in love with the school -- it's been my first choice ever since. Yet despite Wash U's ostensibly stong academics (in a good number of departments), I feel as though the university serves as more of a mecca for those hoping to enter the medical field than for their non-premed counterparts.</p>
<p>I'm planning on obtaining a double major in English literature and environmental studies (with the goal of becoming an attorney practicing environmental law), and the obvious ease of attaining dual degrees at Wash U is a huge draw for me. Yet though I have been truly impressed by Wash U itself (not to mention their outreach -- everyone I have been in contact with has been extremely gracious and considerate, from offering not one but two travel grants, answering my every question, and working with me on the financial side of things) I am rather concerned about the hefty investment I would have to make to attend Wash U when I have been offered significant merit scholarships at a number of other schools (both at LAC's and highly ranked public universities).</p>
<p>My primary intent is to attain a rigorous, challenging, and thorough education (in whatever field(s) I do eventually narrow my interests down to). So I suppose that my primary question is this: are Wash U's resources (advising, accessibility of professors, etc.) just as strong for the non-premed crowd (specifically, in my case, for the pre-law student) as they are for the medically inclined majority? </p>
<p>(As a sidenote, I have also heard whispers of grade deflation/curved grading practices that make high GPA's elusive and far between at Wash U. Obviously, while the grade received in a course is far less important than the learning accomplished along the way, grades do have to be taken into consideration for highly numbers-based law school admissions. Any truth to this rumor?)</p>
<p>Caff - I don’t view WashU as a “mecca for those hoping to enter the medical field” and my daughter is on the premed track. Her roommates have been a business major, two art majors, and a psychology major. </p>
<p>One of the reasons she came to WashU was also the ease of double majoring/minoring.
D had other schools tell her that she would NOT be able to double major and take the premed prereqs and finish in 4 years at their university - they were quickly marked off the list. She is a science/foreign language major (music and biology minor) and, in fact, her foreign language professors are her favorite on campus - she thinks they are amazing! The advising is strong campus wide. You will have a main advisor you are assigned freshman year. Then you will be assigned a peer advisor (another student) who advises you and 4-5 others. When you declare your major(s), you get an advisor in each of those. I can’t speak to the prelaw advising (hopefully someone else will), but with that breathtakingly beautiful law building they just built, I would imagine that the faculty is just as impressive as the bricks and mortar!</p>
<p>D has found the professors accessible across the board - foreign language, philosphy, English, science, math, etc. They all have office hours and she uses them regularly to ask questions, get things clarified, etc. They respond very quickly to e-mails. Several professors have given out their home phone numbers and she has even used that. </p>
<p>D came to WashU for the same reasons you mention - “to attain a rigorous, challenging, and thorough education” and she feels like that is what she is getting. She wanted to be challenged to the max, and is. Several schools also offered her four year free rides, but they were not at the academic level of WashU. Finances ALWAYS have to be a consideration though.</p>
<p>Regarding grade deflation - The grading is severe, but D has seen that more in the premed courses (chem, orgo, bio, etc.) than in her other classes. Despite coming from a very weak public h.s., she has been on the Dean’s List (3.5 or above) all three semesters she’s been there. It has taken a tremendous amount of work (again due to the premed classes), but she’s been able to do it.</p>
<p>Caff - I agree with everything Midwest Parent said and would just like to augment a bit on the money side. I have consistently thought that for people that are pretty sure they will go on after undergrad to PhD, med school, or law school: If you have opportunities at relatively similar schools academically, money is a factor for you, and there are significant cost differences, save the money. There is no sense coming out of law school $200,000 in debt. Now that assumes that you feel you will be similarly happy at these LAC’s as you would be at Wash U. Only you can judge that, and no one can know it absent a crystal ball. But if the quality of these other schools really isn’t close to Wash U, then go with the better school.</p>
<p>Forget about anything and everything you have heard about grade deflation, etc. Wash U has no interest in making it harder for their graduates to get into the finest post-graduate programs. I mean would that make any sense? All top schools have weed out courses for pre-med, as Midwest alluded, because a lot of the people that think they want to be or can be medical doctors are kidding themselves, and they find that out then.</p>
<p>These are a totally unique four years of your life. Do what is best for you, with the factors mentioned above in mind.</p>
<p>More generally, most of my friends are actually non-pre med, even though I’m a biology major. I have a lot of friends in business, art, polisci, psych, econ and ias. All of them have had a rigorous and enjoyably challenging time here. And of all the non-science classes that I’ve taken (IE. ethics, wwi history, chinese civ, etc.), I can’t say there is a single one that I was bored by.</p>
<p>As for grade deflation, large lecture courses almost universally set exam means to a middle B (this includes, orgo, bio, gchem, phys, etc.) which is pretty standard among top universities I think. Its harder to say in the humanities, where grading is more subjective, but in the classes I’ve taken, most get in the B+/A- range</p>
I have also heard whispers of grade deflation/curved grading practices that make high GPA’s elusive and far between at Wash U. Obviously, while the grade received in a course is far less important than the learning accomplished along the way, grades do have to be taken into consideration for highly numbers-based law school admissions. Any truth to this rumor?
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That’s nothing more than fearmongering. The fact is that the curve helps your grades. It will seem at first as if you’re doing horribly, but if you are moderately intelligent and are willing to put in the effort, it’s really not that bad.</p>
<p>For example, in Chemistry 111A (first semester of general chemistry), I scored 72, 72, 60, and 76 on the 3 midterms and the final, respectively. I got an A (not an A-) in the class.</p>
<p>Thank you all very much for the thoughtful and detailed feedback. At this point, I am certainly leaning towards attending Wash U in the fall; however, money does definitely have to be taken into consideration (especially when I could (although I’d prefer not to) attend either UC Berkeley/UCLA or a smaller, though perhaps not so highly ranked or academically challenging, LAC for less than half of what it will cost for me to attend Wash U. In any case, it will definitely involve immense sacrifice and frugality on both my own and my family’s parts). </p>
<p>The programs that a few of you mentioned, specifically the Pathfinder Program and the environmental law clinic (available as a capstone project, I believe it was termed, for graduating seniors in the environmental studies major), were some of my original attractions to Wash U. (Oh, and I’m quite glad to hear that pre-med students aren’t necessarily the majority of students at Wash U, despite what these forums, as well as my impressions upon briefly visiting campus last year, may have suggested.) </p>
<p>It will definitely be a difficult decision to make, but in all honesty, I do think that I would be very happy, and most importantly, quite challenged academically, at Wash U. </p>
<p>(Another aside: can anyone perhaps shed some light upon the actual experiences of either English/environmental studies majors at Wash U? How satisfied have you been with the quality/modes of instruction, the manageability and rigor of the work load, the ability to become involved with research as an undergraduate, etc.?)</p>
<p>caffeineaholic–One thing you should definitely and I strongly encourage you to try is talk to the Financial Aid Office. Specifically, if you can get a meeting or on the phone with Bill Witbrodt (the Director of the Office), and talk about your situation, your offers from other schools, your desire to go to WashU and the current limitations because of the cost, then you never know. It doesn’t hurt to ask. I know that I would not been able to attend WashU had we not appealed our financial aid decision.</p>
<p>balancedhelium – I did, in fact, speak with the financial aid office earlier regarding my family’s circumstances, and they were able to significantly increase my financial aid award, as I originally did not qualify for aid altogether. As I mentioned before, it is very, very impressive just how considerate everyone I have spoken with has at Wash U has been.</p>
<p>I know that tuition and fees do, however, tend to rise (at nearly every school, it seems) on a yearly/bi-yearly basis, especially given the current economic climate. At Wash U, are current students affected by price increases, or do fees remain constant (meaning that even if prices do rise in the next few years, you wouldn’t be responsible for paying more than the costs that were enforced when you entered as a freshman)?</p>
At Wash U, are current students affected by price increases, or do fees remain constant (meaning that even if prices do rise in the next few years, you wouldn’t be responsible for paying more than the costs that were enforced when you entered as a freshman)?
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I remember there being a payment plan that allowed you to lock in your rate at the beginning of freshman year for all 4 years. There might be some caveats though.</p>
<p>Also, I’ve heard (and I can’t talk from personal experience yet because I haven’t received next year’s financial aid package) that scholarship money can also go up along with costs so that in essence, you’re paying still the same amount.</p>
<p>Thanks, balancedhelium and ST2. While cost certainly is still a point of contention, especially since I do hope to attend law school after undergrad, it’s great to know just how accommodating Wash U’s financial aid policies are.</p>