Wash U vs. Wesleyan

<p>I was recently taken off the waitlist at Wash U (I already deposited at Wesleyan) but I have a few concerns. I've heard:</p>

<p>*Students in the sciences are really competitive
*Most of the social life revolves around the greek system</p>

<p>I am interested in studying science (chemistry or neuroscience perhaps) and know that there is great research going on at Wash U, but am worried that most of the research opportunities will go to grad students. My other school, Wesleyan, has a smaller program where I imagine I would have more opportunities. (Please tell me if you think I'm wrong)</p>

<p>Socially, I am not a big partier (I don't think I'd be into the whole greek life thing), though I am very social and love going out on weekends. </p>

<p>I know the two schools are quite different, but I would really appreciate any opinions you might have to offer and hope you can help me decide</p>

<p>I think both of those concerns are largely inaccurate, judging from my time and observations here. Of course, no matter where you go, you’ll find students who are a little <em>too</em> academically focused. However, I think that those types of students don’t exist in large volumes at Wash U, compared to similar colleges. That really sets Wash U apart… first-rate academics, coupled with an incredibly chill (yet active!!) and collaborative campus.</p>

<p>Social life does not revolve around Greek Life. There are definitely fraternities and sororities, but they are definitely not the only thing to do on campus… or even the most popular things to do. Sororities don’t even have houses, and the fraternity houses themselves are pretty small. They’re more of an “active presence” than anything else. The biggest thing they do is Thurtene, which is a massive Carnival in the spring time that like everyone goes to… but that’s not a party or anything (there’s rides, and food, and plays, and its for charity). They’re not even clique-y. You don’t get the feeling that it’s a popularity contest by doing Greek… it’s definitely not what you imagine a typical Greek system to be like. You can go an entire year without going to the fraternities, and not even realize you didn’t go. I went to one party in the fall, and it wasn’t my scene. My friends and I tend to hang out in the common room in the dorms (which are INCREDIBLE, btw), hang out in the DUC, go to Forest Park, see concerts on campus, or go to dinner on the Loop. It’s pretty low-key, but we have our own good times, and I think that’s pretty typical here. There’s events that like everyone goes to, like WILD, Thurtene, Diwali, Bauhaus, and some of the a cappella concerts, but overall it’s basically do your own thing. </p>

<p>You might want to choose to live in the sub-free dorms (aka Healthy Living Communities), and there are threads about that on the CC forums. The Pre-Orientation programs would be a good choice, too. LTS, Medicine Connections, and the one with Lasers might be good options for you to move in early and meet people who are going to be very similar to you and have fun. </p>

<p>Regarding research opportunities, they are abundant at Wash U. It’s kind of ridiculous, actually. Off the top of my head, I know 3 people on my freshman floor alone that did research at the medical school during freshman year. Most people wait until Sophomore or Junior year once you get more experience, but it’s available as soon as you think you’re ready to do something. Overall, you’ll be hard-pressed to find a student at Wash U who DIDN’T do research if they’re studying chem/bio/pre-med/PNP/etc. </p>

<p>It’s really hard to pass up going to Wash U if you want to do the sciences. I mean, the sciences are incredible here. Definitely draws upon the strengths of the Medical School, which Wesleyan won’t have. People tend to choose a school like Wesleyan for the extremely close-knit environment, a small student body size, and a small town. At Wesleyan, you’re not going to have the breadth of academic opportunities that you will at Wash U. You’ll have a solid foundation, but in terms of exploring around, interacting with lots of faculty, and having a breadth of research available… you won’t get that at Wesleyan. Wesleyan is probably #1 among the small liberal arts schools for research and stuff, but it still won’t be anywhere near to the opportunities and resources you’ll get at Wash U. Again, Wesleyan is strong for what it is, but if you want a place where you can get more deeply involved in academics and research and have more classes to choose from and things like that, Wash U would be a better fit. </p>

<p>I think of the major private schools, Wash U probably has the closest similarity to being a Small Liberal Arts School in terms of overall atmosphere (well… Wash U and Brown, probably). You definitely get to know professors, the classes are pretty small, and research is abundant. The intro classes, like Intro to Chem and Bio, are going to be pretty large, but they always break down into smaller discussion sections, and there’s PLTL help from upperclassmen, Cornerstone for additional help, professors’ office hours, and labs. </p>

<p>If you are someone who isn’t into the typical fratty party scene, you like sciences and want to do something related to medicine, and still want a liberal arts experience, then Wash U is an ideal school for you. There’s a lot going on on-campus that you can do, and St Louis has a lot going on around campus. Wesleyan is in a small town in CT, that won’t have as many things to choose from to do on-campus or off-campus. It’s definitely a great school, and most people are happy there I’m certain, but the biggest difference between Wash U and Wesleyan will be the sheer amount of things you can choose to do. Wash U has always struck me as something with limitless options, whereas a small liberal arts school will be more limited/constrained. Wash U isn’t even that big, and when you walk around campus, you never get the feeling that you are overwhelmed or there’s too many people. </p>

<p>Have you visited Wash U? Do you know anyone who goes here? Congrats on being accepted from the wait list!!</p>

<p>vbball has done a great job on this response. I just wanted to add another voice to his comments to reassure hopeful13 on these points. WashU is indeed a top notch research university with some of the best science programs in the nation. However, one of the things that makes WashU unique as a research university is its commitment and dedication to undergrads. As a first semester freshman, my D was able to become a research assistant in a lab at WashU. There aren’t many research universities where that is a common occurance. In terms of competitiveness, there are so many threads in this forum discussing the non cut-throat environment at WashU in all departments.</p>

<p>As for the “greek scene”. The great thing about WashU is that you can take it or leave it and still have a very active social life. Greek life does not permeate the campus as it does in many schools. About 25% of the students belong to a frat or soriority, but it doesn’t take over their lives or the campus. </p>

<p>Good luck on your decision and don’t be concerned with the issues you brought up in your post. The bigger issue in my mind is the very different “vibes” between these two schools. Small northeastern liberal arts school versus mid sized research university in the midwest.</p>

<p>I was really surprised reading hopeful13’s post - both of the things heard are about 180 degrees from what these boards and the reality of WUSTL (at least according to my D) reflect: thus, Students in the sciences are NOT really competitive and readily collaborate/cooperate (in fact, there are so many opportunities for extra study help with and from peers that there’s almost not enough time to take advantage of all the help available for the science classes - PLTL, peer mentors, etc.); and Most of the social life DOES NOT revolve around the greek system (nor does most of the social life revolve around parties so far as I have been able to tell). The issues were ably discussed above by vbball and nervous1. </p>

<p>Hope you posted on wesleyen board’s, too, to get their perspective - did you confuse Wesleyen’s reputation (which I don’t know much about) with WUSTL’s maybe?</p>

<p>I see you did post on Wesleyen (and see where you got the greek scene thing from now). One of the comments there, that maybe vbball or nervous1 could address was that at universities (such as WUSTL), “professors will spend their time with grad students instead of with you.” I think this also is VERY far from the truth but will leave it to the experts to discuss!</p>

<p>Re the comment on that board about “missing a lot of local color” by going to St. Louis instead of Middletown - I don’t think that’s true, either. St Louis has a lot to offer and probably far more variety then middletown, ct (which the poster on the Wes board described as a “manageable” but “somewhat cranky, host city”). While WUSTL is in a nice area, it’s certainly not just a “swanky gated community” with no interaction with the local communities. D volunteers at a local elementary school, and for Feed St. Louis. Has also been to concerts in the area. Check this board for tons of info on the St. Louis area opportunities. And, a manageable, but somewhat cranky host city, can get really tiresome, very fast! (I grew up in CT and went to school in CT so have some idea about that sort of environment!)</p>

<p>But you must have some idea of the two communities and which you might prefer for 4 years!</p>

<p>The professor/grad student thing is a generalization that is very true at Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc., and not just for sciences. It is one reason my D was not interested in the Ivies at all, although there were additional reasons. Anyway, Wash U and a few other schools similar to it are not of this mold. As has been stated here a number of times, Wash U is not only excellent about having undergrads participate in research, I would go so far as to say they count on it and depend on it. It is a total win-win. Their labs would not be as productive without the undergrads getting involved and contributing more and more as they grow within their field of study.</p>

<p>I know there is not much way to do this easily, but I guarantee that if you could compare the number of publications in the top scientific journals from Wash U that have undergrads as co-authors with those from Wesleyen, you would be overwhelmed. You will learn a lot at both places, but the Wash U research is far more cutting edge. Yet your ability to participate will be just as strong. So just take that posting on the Wesleyen thread as a good lesson in the dangers of overgeneralizations.</p>

<p>thank you everybody so much for all the input - i really appreciate the comments. vbball, you gave me a lot to think about and i will definitely take everything into consideration!</p>

<p>One more comment: I think the schools may be a bit different culturally. Wes can lean pretty hard to the left. They picked up a bit of a rep in that regard. Some even say their endowment fell far behind their other two little three competitors (Williams and Amherst) in part because there was so much left leaning focus alums were more into directing the school’s cultural stands as opposed to giving money. Wash U, while left leaning like most schools, seems a bit more diverse in its views and culture. Just something you might want to check into for yourself. They’re both great schools - pick where you’re most comfortable.</p>

<p>palmalk wrote: “While WUSTL is in a nice area, it’s certainly not just a “swanky gated community” with no interaction with the local communities. D volunteers at a local elementary school, and for Feed St. Louis. Has also been to concerts in the area.”</p>

<p>Nevertheless, WUSTL’s main undergraduate campus (there are three others that have nothing to do with undergraduates) is located in an unincorporated suburb of a city that sounds an awful lot like Hartford, to me:</p>

<p><a href=“St. Louis - Wikipedia”>St. Louis - Wikipedia;

<p><a href=“Hartford, Connecticut - Wikipedia”>Hartford, Connecticut - Wikipedia;

<p>Can’t say I read through both Wikipedia articles point by point, although I’d like to clarify that WUSTL is <em>not</em> in a suburb of St. Louis - It’s just about ideally located smack in the middle of the city, bordering Forest Park and the Loop.</p>

<p>Well - it is in a nice area known as Clayton - and yeah, the homes surrounding one side of campus are faintly reminiscent of the West Hartford (not Hartford) area. But in no way is WUSTL like a gated community. Unless it’s changed a lot, Hartford has nowhere near the opportunities/events/activities that St. Louis offers; and, if I recall, Middletown is a little bit of a distance from Hartford (15-20 miles?). WUSTL is quite close to all St. Louis has to offer. </p>

<p>All that being said, my original point was really in response to the “missing local color” comment more than anything else (although if “local color” is meant to refer to the charms of living in a “cranky host city,” I agree - WUSTL does not have that problem!)</p>

<p>johnwesley - before making comments or comparisons, you might consider researching the subject a bit more.</p>

<p>yeah, johnwesley got it pretty much completely wrong. I mean first of all, taking the demographics of entire large cities to make any kind of a point about a very particular spot is absurd. I don’t care what city you live in, there are areas that are very upper class and areas that are as dangerous as you can get, so what good does citing a meaningless average do? That would be like comparing the area Tulane is in (Audubon District, huge mansions all around) with the 9th ward or the French Quarter, but all are in New Orleans. Also, I don’t think it is unincorporated, it is in St. Louis County (only talking about the main campus here). This is not the same as the city. Oddly, the city itself is not in St. Louis County, it is its own entity, and everything outside of the city limits is St. Louis County, until you get to the next county. St. Louis County is made up of dozens of suburbs like Clayton, Brentwood, Ladue, Chesterfield, and on and on. Whether the main campus is technically in Clayton or University City or neither, I am not sure.</p>

<p>BTW Don Q, I would not say Wash U is smack in the middle of the city, it is just off the west edge of the city in the Clayton/University City suburban area. So it is in a suburb, albeit one that abuts the city so it is a technicality. You probably meant smack in the middle of the metro area, which is true.</p>

<p>I don’t know why you guys are tripping over a simple demographics comparison. You’re the ones who suggested WUSTL is ideally located, “smack in the middle of the city.” And, make up your minds – is Clayton a suburb or not?</p>

<p>One person suggested that AFTER your post, so please, no revisionist history. And it was corrected. We are “tripping” because it is a silly and irrelevant comparison. One doesn’t go to school in the whole city, one goes to school in a particular area. To the extent that one takes advantage of the resources of any city, one is focusing on singular things, not whatever the overall demographics show. Besides, if the demographics of any city are meaningless generalizations for anyone, it would be a college student. They hardly live in a metro area with the same lifestyle that someone buying a home and raising a family would, and that is where demographics MIGHT be somewhat important, although even then in a city of any size there is so little homogeneity within the area, those averages and statistics are also pretty meaningless. Enough of an explanation as to why it seemed silly? Or do I need to explain SMSA to you?</p>

<p>

Yes it is a suburb. Who said it wasn’t? Don’t see any contradictions posted here. Don Q made a slight misstatement by saying “middle of the city” instead of “middle of the metro area”, big deal. It had nothing to do with your demegraphics post anyway. But he didn’t claim Clayton wasn’t a suburb, no one did. Are you trippin’?</p>

<p>^^Surely, you jest:</p>

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<p>No, but it might explain why someone could mistake WUSTL for a gated community. LOL.</p>

<p>Probably would not require such a detailed explanation if the person actualy acquired some knowledge about the area prior to posting.</p>

<p>Probably woundn’t require one if his replies even made sense. Does anyone even have a clue what johnwesley’s last means? Clearly a ■■■■■.</p>