WashU Premeds: Questions and Answers

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington University in St. Louis
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<p>Frequently Asked Questions</p>

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<ol>
<li>I have always heard that WashU is one of best premed schools. What does this mean, exactly? </li>
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<p>You probably know by now that people don't 'major' in premed; rather, they need to take a set of prerequisite science and math courses. Yes, you can do premed in any university, but there are several factors that make WashU a great school for premeds:</p>

<p>A. The strength and availability of the advising program
B. The rigor of the curriculum
C. WashU's superb, above-average success rate at getting its premeds into med schools
D. The research culture at WashU
E. The self-motivated students who support each other</p>

<p>I will elaborate on each point below. </p>

<p>A. The strength and availability of the advising program.
Go to Pre-Health</a> | The College | Arts & Sciences.
Go to 'Advising' on the left menu.
As you can see, there are at least ten premedical advisors. At WashU, as a premed, you will not only be able to seek the guidance of these advisors, you will also have your four-year advisor and your major (and minor, if you have any) advisors. So most students have numerous advisors.
These advisors are available by appointment, walk-in office hours during specific times and dates of the week, and by phone and email (of course, face-to-face interaction is best, but they are also incredibly friendly by phone and email). Most of the advisors are located in Umrath, the ArtSci student affairs building, but Cornerstone and the Career Center also have premedical staff on hand.
These advisors MENTOR and ADVISE. They don't simply take a look at your grades and give you an assessment of your chances for medical school-- they have the knowledge to do that, but they will do MORE than that. They have access to your transcript, and they will sit down with you to look at the courses you have chosen per semester as well as the trend of your grades. They will help you determine the reasons for a poorer performance one semester, and direct you to the necessary resources. Study problems? Get a free tutor or study group from Cornerstone. Social or personal issues? The premedical advisors are understanding and caring adults and they will listen to your personal story.
Second, the advisors also check in on your activities. No, they will not tell you to do certain 'activities that look good to premedical schools.' From my experience, most premeds at WashU participate in activities they are passionate about. The premed advisor treats each student as a being with unique interests and hobbies, echoing the philosophy that as a premed, you have to get the grades and naturally be compassionate and humanitarian in your involvements, but you also need to do what you love. The advisors will assess whether your activities show academic and inquisitive tendencies and whether they show involvement and leadership. They will also assess whether you are 'on-schedule' -- as in, when should you take that MCAT? Have you gotten all your prereqs? Do you have your medical school resume ready (yes, they will look over your resume, too, to make sure it is clear, concise, and strong)? In short, the premedical advisors mentor students holistically. And overall, they are an incredibly supportive and encouraging staff that you can get close to and who will really get to know YOU. </p>

<p>B. The rigor of the curriculum.
I will create no illusions- WashU premed is NOT easy. Intro chem ('GenChemI')-- you start off with wave-particle duality and Schrodinger's cat, complete with 'alternative universe' questions on your exams. Be prepared to cry and work very, very hard. I know this sounds harsh. I also note that every science class I've taken at WashU has been taught by a professor who are alma maters of other top, rigorous, scientific institutions, and they will write exams that challenge you to 'think-outside-the-box.' Be assured however-- if you have what it takes to be accepted into WashU premed, you have what it takes to succeed at premed here. What distinguishes one student from another is usually how hard they work. Your hard work WILL pay off. </p>

<p>Do medical schools acknowledge the rigor of the WashU curriculum? Simply put, YES, YES, YES!</p>

<p>C. WashU's success rate at getting its premeds into medical schools.
If you want the hard numbers, go here:
Life</a> Sciences Forms | The College | Arts & Sciences</p>

<p>Read the Premed Supplement.</p>

<p>D. The research culture at WashU.
Medical schools are academic institutions where research may be tomorrow's cure, and understandably they would appreciate candidates who have participated in research experiences (defined as actually working on research projects, not simply washing beakers and running the occasional PCR). Of course, reseach doesn't just constitute the biological or medical sciences. You can also do research in anthropology, economics, sociology, or political science. WashU allows you to demonstrate your intellectual drive in its full range of laboratories, professors of every field, and interdisciplinary research studies. I cannot stress how amazing WashU's undergraduate research is. You can go to the undergraduate research website at ur.wustl.edu. As you will soon learn, there are tons and tons of research funding for undergrads, for every field. The professors I know are also very friendly and love working with undergrads. Simply put, most undergrads participate in research, often obtaining funding for and working on their own projects. Every semester, there is the Undergraduate research symposium, where undergrads create professional-quality posters and give presentations on their work. </p>

<p>E. The support of the students
WashU premeds are not cutthroat. People share notes, help each other understand that esoteric concept from class, and work together on problems in study groups.</p>

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<ol>
<li>Should I use my AP Credits, skip GenChem, and go directly into Organic Chemistry?
Don’t do this unless you know you’re really, really good at organic chemistry. Most people I know find Organic Chemistry difficult, and most people I know (including me) have gotten 790-800 on their SATII Chem, 5’s on their APs, and were science nerds in high school.
If you’re so-so at organic chem or have never even touched it before, take GenChem first. You can acclimate yourself to WashU exams’ difficulty and the feel of WashU academics in general before you embark on taking the more difficult Organic chemistry sequence. Plus, your grade in the class can buffer or boost your GPA later on.</li>
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<ol>
<li>What do WashU premeds major in?
For medical school, you can really major in anything.
At WashU many premeds double-major or major with one minor. Most students I know major in a biology-related or health-related field (Biology, Biomedical engineering, Biochemistry, PNP/ Psychology) and minor in a humanities (English, Anthropology, Art History, Writing). Some also double major into the business school. WashU is also one of the few schools that have a Pulic Health Minor.</li>
</ol>

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<ol>
<li>Can WashU undergrads access Medical School opportunities easily? For example, how accessible for undergrads are shadowing and clinical research experiences at the medical school? </li>
</ol>

<p>Shadowing: I would say pretty accessible! There is actually a course specifically designed to allow premeds to shadow doctors at the medical school. It is MedPrep. I highly recommend this class. Not only do you shadow doctors in ER, you also attend lectures that prepare you for the medical school application process and the realities of a life in medicine. It is directed by a doctor at the medical school. </p>

<p>Clinical research: Pretty accessible. I think some laboratories have the students send in a resume, and may be more ‘selective,’ yet many of my premed friends do research at the medical school. And this research is not limited to medical bench research. Other examples of clinical research you may help out in include: Physical therapy programs for patients; epidemiology studies; medical anthropology studies, to name a few.</p>

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<p>What did you mean by: “to be accepted into WashU premed”? If the student has already been accepted, and expressed interest in majoring in Biology, is he already in their 'pre-med program? Or is there another round of acceptances/rejections to go through?</p>

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<p>limabeans- there is no actual premed program.</p>

<p>If you want, you can get a premed advisor. But so long as you take all the required premed classes (chem, orgo, bio, physics), and take the mcat, anyone can apply to med school.</p>

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<p>Hi limabeans,</p>

<p>I can see how that is confusing. I meant that if you have what it takes to apply to WashU indicating that you are premed, and are accepted, you have what it takes to succeed at WashU. This is what my four year advisor had told me, and the admissions committee does get many applications from students who assert their interest in premedical studies. Hope this helps!</p>

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<p>Hi zenith,</p>

<p>I just thought of a really important pre-med question. On what basis do you decide when to take each of the six required pre-med courses? From what I understand, AP credits do not exempt you from any of the courses (except for maybe English and Calculus, though I’m not sure here either). Is it a better idea to front-load your college experience with pre-med requirements and finish them as early as possible (i.e. do most of them in your first year), or should you spread them out (i.e. between first and second year)? Are you actually able to choose when you take them, or are you required to take certain courses at certain times?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>Great question, taintedlove21,</p>

<p>There isn’t a requirement as to when you take the “premed classes.” The conventional schedule is to finish most of your prereqs by the end of sophomore year. Some people take physics junior year and thus finish at the end of junior year. So below is the list of basic premed classes:</p>

<p>GenChemI and II - you CAN use AP credits to pass out of this. However, unless you want to directly skip into organic chem, don’t use the AP credits (See post #2 above). Most premeds at WashU do take the GenChem sequence, and the sequence runs freshman year fall - spring semester. You have the GenChem I and II Laboratory sequence as well, and the majority of people take it side-by-side with the lecture couse. </p>

<p>Physics I and II- Every premed I know at WashU takes physics and doesn’t use their AP credits. The scheduling for physics varies much more than for the Bio and Chem classes. Some people take the sequence freshman year; some sophomore year; some junior year. </p>

<p>Biology I and II - Most premeds take the sequence Freshman SPRING (that’s when Bio I starts, NOT Fall) to Sophomore Fall (Bio II). </p>

<p>Organic Chem I and II - After you finish GenChem I, you move into organic chem. You must take this class as a premed. Most people take it their sophomore year. I’d recommend taking only two sciences max when you’re taking orgo. It’s a very memorization and problem-solving (ie synthesis problems) intensive class. Most people have difficulty with it at some point or another as WashU orgo is known to be quite difficult. Interestingly, the old organic chem sequence (which I took) was separate from the Orgo Laboratory. However, I hear now that the new orgo program, started just this past year, will have students taking the lecture and laboratory at the same time. </p>

<p>** A number of students choose to take Physics and/or Organic Chemistry during the summer, either at WashU or at another institution. There are pros and cons to this. Pros: You only have to concentrate on that one science for the summer = more time to study. Depending on who you get as a professor (who writes the exams), the exams MAY be easier than the exams you get during the schoolyear. Cons: Taking the course over the summer means you condense a semester’s worth of material into two months. So this means you have to study even more every day and be on top of your game (this may be harder for Organic chem). Also, WashU (and probably med schools as well) prefers you to take the science classes at an instutition that is considered “peer” to WashU; this means don’t take the sciences at a community college. The rationale behind this is that med schools want to see that you’re still taking a rigorous science class and not taking the class over the summer simply because it might be easier. </p>

<p>One of the first things you do as a premed at WashU is to meet with your four-year advisor. The four-year advisor will help you map out the schedule for your prereqs as well as for your tentative upper-division classes. So don’t worry. </p>

<p>When you plan your schedule, there are several key points you want to consider:

  • When do you want to take your MCAT? If you want to take it at the end of your sophomore year, you want to finish your science prereqs by then. If you want to take it at the end of your junior year, you can finish the prereqs at the end of junior year.
  • How heavy a courseload can you handle? Some people I know (like me) took GenChem, Bio, and Physics all at the same time during their freshman year. Remember these classes include their respective laboratory sequences as well. So if you are sure you can handle this relatively heavy workload, then you may finish the bulk of your prereqs freshman year. However, most people do not do this and choose to spread their prereqs between freshman and sophomore year, or from freshman through junior year. </p>

<p>Hope this answers your questions. Let me know if I missed anything.</p>

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<p>zenith -</p>

<p>Thank you SO MUCH for that comprehensive answer! I saved it on my computer and will refer to it when the time comes for me to do course selection at whatever school I decide to go to. :)</p>

<p>Just one more question -</p>

<p>Unless I’m mistaken, is there a math requirement for pre-med students? If so, how much freedom does one have in deciding which math course to take, and to what extent can AP credits be used? I have an AP Calculus BC credit from last year (5 on the exam) and will have an AP Statistics credit at the end of this year (assuming I do well on the exam). I would be much more interested in taking an advanced statistics course than multivariable calculus to fulfill the math requirement, if there is one. Would it be okay to choose a statistics course to fulfill the math requirement instead of a calculus course?</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>I was under the impression that only engineers could use AP credits to test directly into orgo (unless it’s changed for the 2014 class).</p>

<p>Another thing to note is that the premed engineers I know take Gen Chem anyway, since there are med schools that do not count AP credits in their “full year of chemistry” requirement.</p>

<p>Tainted love- although I’m not premed, from what I understand most med schools would like up to calc II. However, of all the premeds I know, they take calc III as well. I’d do that; calc III was an easy class in my opinion.</p>

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<p>I am trying to track down a chart or some kind of analysis somewhere that compares what percentage of a respective college’s premed students are accepted into medical school.</p>

<p>Also, is there a chart that also tracks the percentage of a medical school’s accepting premed undergrads from the same institution? For example, I’ve been accepted to WashU, Michigan and Johns Hopkins. How do I go about finding out what percentage of WasU premeds are accepted to WasU medical school, what % of Michigan undergrads are accepted to U of Mich medical school, etc?</p>

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<p>Hi Ginger2222,</p>

<p>Please read Part 1C in Post #1 above. It is the link to the pre-health site and contains the document you are looking for. *clarification: The document is WashU’s data of its premeds’ acceptances into medical school. </p>

<p>Second, about 20 WashU undergrads are accepted a year into WashU’s medical school (ie. the medical school looks very favorably upon the WashU undergrads). I think the WashU medical school class is about 125 a year and is one of the toughest to get into, so 20 is quite a good number!</p>

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<p>Of those 20, does that include the students who were pre-selected as incoming freshmen?</p>

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<p>Ginger222,
What do you mean by “pre-selected as incoming freshmen?”</p>

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<p>^I’m assuming Ginger means the USP scholars.</p>

<p>Even if it is included, that’s only 4 or 5 students.</p>

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<p>“Intro chem (‘GenChemI’)-- you start off with wave-particle duality and Schrodinger’s cat, complete with ‘alternative universe’ questions on your exams.”</p>

<p>are you sure this is an introductory chemistry class and not one on advanced quantum physics?</p>

<p>also, do premed candidates need to register specifically before classes begin?</p>

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<p>DarkKnight- Yes. </p>

<p>Gen Chem 1 (chem 111a) is essentially p-chem for babies (ie no differential equations or any advanced math). Gen Chem 2 covers what most schools do in 2 semesters in 1.</p>

<p>No, premed students do not get preferential treatment in registering. That’s all based on what school you’re in. Besides, the standard first semester ‘premed classes’ are only gen chem and a math class. Those will not fill up, as there are more than enough slots.</p>

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<p>alright, but if you’re a pre-med candidate, do you have to take chemistry freshman year? I’m going to the engineering school studying BME and I also wanna take a biology class. But I doubt I can take chem. and bio. together because I already have to take writing I, a math class, and a BME course. I’m also looking for internship opportunities in the summer at institutes like the NIH and having a good biology background will help get accepted to those internships.</p>

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<p>If you’re a BME, you have to take chem freshmen year. Besides, bio 2960 (aka bio 1) isn’t offered to the spring, because chem 111 is a prereq. </p>

<p>Here’s a suggested schedule for the no-track route. (the track suggested schedules can also be found on the dept website):
<a href=“http://bme.wustl.edu/ContentFiles/No%20Track.pdf[/url]”>http://bme.wustl.edu/ContentFiles/No%20Track.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Oh, and if you’re a bme, not only will you take bio and chem at the same time, but you’ll take bio, chem, and physics at the same time in the spring. (unless of course you have ap credit for one of these, but that’s highly NOT recommended for pre-meds since some med schools don’t accept ap credit as counting for a “year of …”</p>