<p>I've been accepted at UChicago, Washu, and Carleton and am having a real problem deciding where to spend my undergraduate years. I plan on pursuing a pre-medical education, however, I want to study cognitive science/neuroscience. Based on that information WashU is probably the best fit because of its renowned pre-med program. However, I hear that liberal arts colleges have strong med school placement because graduate schools want a more rounded student. So in this respect Carleton would be my obvious choice. Adding another factor to the mix, however, is that I want to go to a name-brand school (however shallow that may seem). UChicago, in my experience, is more universally acknowledged in my area as a top tier school, even though all of my schools are most definitely top tier. I'd appreciate it if someone were to go through some pros and cons of each college so that I can better understand each school and their individual programs.</p>
<p>I am thrilled to say that my D made a decision yesterday!!! And she couldn’t be happier - she is over the top bubbling with joy and enthusiasm - it’s pure love!</p>
<p>She left here last Thursday with full intention of enrolling in UChicago. </p>
<p>Picked her up at the airport on Saturday and came straight home to submit enrollment and housing deposits to Washu. It’s done!!! I have never seen her this happy…</p>
<p>Also, she has decided to accept the scholarship to their 7-week summer biomed research program despite the fact that she will miss prom, senior luncheon, etc.</p>
<p>UChicago is a wonderful school - just not the best choice for my D.</p>
<p>It is definitely a personal decision - one which you shouldn’t try to reason your way through. Go with you gut - where you will thrive.</p>
<p>All three are terrific choices, but for pre-med I would go with WUSTL because of its top 5 med school (unlike UC) and numerous research opportunities (unlike Carleton). Also, WUSTL premed is very prestigious among med schools and at least equal to UC and Carleton in that regard. Plus, while I love the core at UC, I think it could be an impediment to pursuing a pre-med curriculum. </p>
<p>One thing to look at is how many pre-meds apply to med school from a university/college (only a fair comparison between UC and WUSTL because Carleton is so much smaller).
Each year over 300 students from WUSTL apply to med school (and in some years this number has been over 350). In comparison, UC is usually in the 150 range and almost never above 200. </p>
<p>Last year the figures were WUSTL 310 applicants v. UC 148 applicants. See links below from the AMA. That twice as many kids from WUSTL apply to med school as from UC gives at least some indication of the amount of resources a school spends on pre-meds and the likelihood that a student who starts pre med will finish the program. While not a perfect barometer, the AMA keeps tabs on this figure and there are no games with it unlike with the notoriously unreliable med school “acceptance rates”. </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/321446/data/2012factstable2-1.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/321446/data/2012factstable2-1.pdf</a> (figures for both WUSTL and UC here)</p>
<p>The “well-rounded-ness” an education is a far poorer measure of medical school placement than is the actual med school placement rate (95% at washu to 75% at carleton. I could not find an official number for UChicago, but no source presented a rate above 70%). If you do wish to receive a well-rounded education, then I contend that you certainly could do so at washu. Many of it’s non life sciences programs are highly rated nationally, so it’s certainly easy to take strong courses in many areas during your 4 years at washu.</p>
<p>If you want a brand name college in order to apply to medical school with, then washu has a better pre med reputation.
If you want a brand name college to help get a job, then the employers won’t care about your undergraduate school, only the med school.
If you want a brand name college for the purposes of bragging to friends and family, then UChicago might be slightly better, at least in some areas.</p>
<p>Edit: </p>
<p>@muckdogs07</p>
<p>I do think that table is slightly misleading. I don’t know the numbers, but I’m nearly certain that washu attracts more pre med applicants than does uchicago. The table more accurately represents reputation than it does actual quality, IMO.</p>
<p>RyanMK,</p>
<p>Agree WUSTL attracts more pre-meds than UC but that does not make the table misleading showing more than twice as many pre-meds apply to med school from WUSTL as compared with Chicago. Instead, it highlights that WUSTL is well known as a strong pre-med program and hence the pull to prospective pre-med students over UC. </p>
<p>Agree with your overall points and believe WUSTL also provides a terrific liberal arts education (just not quite as all consuming as UC’s which is a plus for a pre-med in my view), but would be wary of any acceptance stats from any schools as they are notoriously gamed. To give you one example – Hopkins (one of strongest pre-med programs in country) admits on its web site that its acceptance rate is less than 65% and so no way that any school is getting 19/20 in (absent some major caveats in how they calculate the statistics such as committee pre-approvals, only students with certain GPAs/MCAT scores etc).</p>
<p>[JHU</a> Pre-Professional Advising](<a href=“Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs”>Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs)</p>
<p>Well, as a rule of thumb, I’ve been assuming that all rates given are “qualified applicants” stats - especially if that is how the school website phrases it. I understand that’s a bit vague and subjective, but I still feel as though it gives a realistic impression of pre med programs. For Hopkins, I would have stated 80-100%, based on year - I likely would have used the 88% given later on the page for a rough estimate.</p>
<p>RyanMK,</p>
<p>We seem to be running into each other on multiple forums. All three schools you mention are excellent. I could be wrong, but I would consider the school where you will feel happiest. All three have a number of distribution requirements (although these are usually less oppressive to science majors). Carleton is smaller. Does that appeal to you. Chicago has the best brand name in the real (non rankings obsessed) world. WU is excellent. Your motivation, grades, boards, personality, etc. will be more determinative of your graduate school chances, than which of these schools you choose. You can’t go wrong.</p>
<p>Having said that, I can also say that should you ever change your mind about your life goals, larger schools may give you more options. WU is excellent in engineering, social sciences and the humanities. Chicago is reputed to have one of the top economics departments in the country. And so on.</p>
<p>Haha, Ruppy, my action on cc is pretty much limited to the washu forum, so it makes sense. I agree OP should probably choose based on fit, but part of that are the things mentioned, such as quality of the pre med programs.</p>
<p>ryanmk,</p>
<p>“Pre-Med” is actually a series of mostly science courses that, at some time in the distant past, somebody thought you needed to be a doctor. All of the schools mentioned in this post are capable of providing that background, in spades. Arguably, many of those courses are only relevant to research. In Britain, it may be that secondary school students still proceed directly to medical school. It would be perfectly fine for the original poster to consider the best environment in which they would learn, and in which they would become a well-rounded person.</p>
<p>I would point out, however, that if the original poster is from Minnesota, they might want to consider going somewhere with a less oppressive winter. ;-). The trees are all blooming in STL; I was there yesterday. The food is awesome within 10 blocks of U Chicago.
.</p>
<p>While one could argue that the science courses at washu are better than the corresponding ones at the other colleges, I agree that the difference in quality of education is not necessarily the deciding factor. There are, however, other variables which one must take into account when looking at an undergraduate school for “pre medicine”. Things such as advising, reputation, and faculty, as well as diversity of science courses, among other things, are what set washu apart, IMO.</p>
<p>And the trees on campus certainly are pretty; unfortunately, I’ve heard they have a somewhat unappealing fragrance. It’s one of the few times I’m thankful for my below-average sense of smell, haha.</p>
<p>Carleton is a great school, especially for future professors in training. But I would be worried about pre-med at any college/university that does not have an associated hospital for research and volunteer work and doubly worried about a college in a smaller city like Northfield MN that may not even have a research hospital.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone! A lot of food for thought!</p>
<p>RyanMK,</p>
<p>The trees are fine unless you have spring pollen allergies. Sooner or later, Spring even hits Minnesota. I can think of unlimited good things to say about WU. I find it hard to believe, however, that Chicago lags WU in any science, or that any medical school would take Chicago less seriously than WU. If it were just reputation, one might have to give Chicago the nod. It is harder to be admitted, has higher board scores, and has had an awesome reputation longest(even if some say that Chicago is “where the fun goes to die”). They want smart people at medical school (in theory), and each of the three schools admits smart students. Your medical school will have access to a teaching hospital; your college can be anywhere.</p>