Frankly, this loses all credibility with me. The number of best selling authors and successful entrepreneurs that are high school seniors is scant indeed. These barely represent a fraction of a drop in the applicant pool. A few molecules at most. If that is the criteria we can end the discussion now.
As I explained, this would result in many more disgruntled students at WUSTL than there are today. That will never be allowed if they can help it. Besides, it isn’t so much that they think they won’t enroll. It is that they think they don’t really want to be at WUSTL. Those are two very different things. Their fear, if you will, is that they WILL enroll because they got shut out of HYPSM.
I also explained that acceptance rate is the most negligible of factors in the ranking scheme.
A supplement might be an interesting thing to add, but it also is quite clear that WUSTL is doing very very well in their admissions with their current policy, despite your discontent and your predictions of doom and gloom if they don’t stop doing it. As I also mentioned, this complaint gets heard every year for many years now, yet they are doing better than ever. Hard to see how your theoretical advice trumps that.
I don’t know why it is so hard to understand that these are seasoned professionals, people with years of experience. Is it just possible they know more about what they are doing than you do in this area? Because trust me, they have heard this same complaint for years. If you want to chalk it all up to malevolent motives towards ratings and appearance, then no one is likely to change your mind if the arguments put forth so far haven’t. But it seems quite clear to many of us there are perfectly benign or even benevolent motives that drive these decisions. I know you say you are not bitter or otherwise hostile towards WUSTL, but assuming the worst no matter the other arguments made sure makes it sound like you are.
I’ll also try one more time with one other point. You are saying in no uncertain terms that anyone qualified to get accepted to one of the HYPSM schools should automatically get accepted to WUSTL. Why would any rational person think this? What makes you think that just because an Ivy type school is a fit for a student WUSTL is too? Fit isn’t just determined by the applicant, it is also a judgement call for admissions. The prime example would be the student that makes it clear in their application that getting into an Ivy has been their life-long goal. That actually happens a lot, in case you doubt that it does. Why would WUSTL want that student? And there are many ways of sorting out that kind of student, even when they are not so obvious about it.
I have a friend that applied to 17 of the top 20 schools per US News and she had tippy top stats. 2400, 3.9/4.6 14 APs she only got A-'s in phys ed! Columbia HS program two years etc.
How many schools do you think she got accepted to? 4 out of 17.
The point is none of the top 20 schools are a safety. Their admission rates are below 25% due to the large volume of applicants and their admissions process differs from college to college. It’s a crap shoot if you get accepted to any of them. That’s the point!
You know, that does present another interesting way to look at this, I think. Again, let’s restate that Madeon’s position is that a student that gets accepted to an Ivy should get accepted to WUSTL. But how does WUSTL know they got accepted to an Ivy? Let’s run through a scenario.
Student A applies to 4 Ivies and WUSTL. They get into 2 Ivies and not into two others, and not into WUSTL. Madeon would say WUSTL should have taken this student. But suppose Student A instead only applied to the two Ivies that end up denying them. Does that mean it is OK now that WUSTL denied them as well, when it wasn’t OK before? Nothing else in their record and actions changed. Hmmmmmm…
There is nothing predicate in a student having a record good enough to possibly get into an Ivy with regard to their admission to WUSTL. In the end, that is the biggest flaw in Madeon’s reasoning, I think. The record is more than stats.
@fallenchemist LLs are only given to the top 100-200 applicants at Ivies. So we are only talking about 100-200 people here. The examples I gave were of REAL students who got waitlisted/rejected at WashU.
@newjersey17 Considering she has nothing that makes her stick out in a pool of applicants, I can’t say I’m surprised she got into 4/17. She wasn’t a best selling author, app developer, entrepreneur. She wasn’t a ISEF finalist. She didn’t represent her country in international competitions (and win). You guys are talking about the average Ivy student. I’m talking about the TOP ivy students that got rejected from WashU.
Honestly, if WashU wanted to practice yield protection, there are much better ways they could do it (and it doesn’t factor much into rankings anyway). They could take 50% of the class through ED like some of their peer schools, instead of just 1/3, as one example. Ultimately, you can’t know why a student wasn’t admitted if you weren’t the one reading their application.
Stats and grades themselves are necessary but not sufficient. I knew a girl who applied ED to WashU with good test scores and had started more than one company- she was rejected. One kid a friend of mine interviewed was very involved (great extracurriculars) and would have gotten a great report from her- if he didn’t slip in a racist joke during the interview. It’s possible a few of that kid’s peers/friends would have been surprised when he was not accepted, but they weren’t privy to the complete picture.
I’m not surprised. Not everyone can get in. Just like not everyone can get into MIT or Stanford.
Every top 20 school will turn away TOP students that DO NOT FIT their culture no matter what their achievements are. Just like ND said they will not accept anyone that is greedy or that doesn’t fit their culture. They are very big on finding students that GIVE BACK.
Wash U has a culture that is really amazing where the students are very collaborative and I’ve been very impressed with how they’ve selected their class.
Just realize the admissions process is different for every school. FIT is a huge part of the equation.
By the way I’m just trying to help you see that not everyone can get in the top 20 schools because of the low admittance rates and FIT. Good luck and hopefully one you’ll day you’ll understand. Be happy with your other acceptances.
@Madeo: Our older son is a junior at WashU, and is having a great experience there. He was well-qualified to attend HPYS, but was rejected by all of them. In the end he chose WashU over Carleton, Tufts, UCB and others. Our younger son has just been accepted, and we are thrilled that he has WashU as a choice. Both are very bright, very good students. Neither is a best-selling author, entrepreneur, or international competitor. If a place was made for them because the admissions committee passed on two of your superstars, we sincerely thank that committee for finding a place for our sons.
@kROCK91 Most people think that WashU already takes too many people from ED. People who get accepted ED tend as a whole to be significantly weaker than the regular pool at WashU.
@AlaskaDadster Fair enough - I’m sure they will love WashU.
Of course they accept a big number via ED! It’s because those students put Wash U first because it was their number one choice and that says it all. That’s what Wash U is looking for. I’m sure every college is looking for that as well.
@newjersey17 You are entitled to your own opinion. The ED discussion is for another place and another time…
In general, test scores don’t mean that much. They aren’t an indicator of intelligence, and really, are only used as qualifiers in college admissions. Also, the difference between the top schools in test scores is negligible (40 points between 2-12 which often is a one question difference on the SAT).
But they do have merit applications and if applicants can’t be bothered to throw their hat in the ring for 180k+ then it is pretty telling.
Take a look at today’s MIT results. Kids with phenomenal stats rejected left and right while “less worthy” applicants get admitted. MIT is the DREAM for many of those rejected students and they were absolutely going to attend-yield padding was certainly not the reason. Clearly MIT has a well formulated plan for assembling the class that they desire, and I have no doubt that WashU does as well.
Oh and plenty of kids that get accepted by Ivy League schools also get WashU acceptances, and it is pretty arrogant for an applicant or parent to profess that their rejection/waitlist was because they were just too good.
@planner03 MIT heavily weights extracurriculars. They want to see that students are leaders and very passionate about the things they do, and really don’t heavily factor in grades and test scores. Worked in my favor
Again, I’m talking about the kids heavily recruited by multiple Ivies (through likely letters) - not just accepted.
Daughter got accepted to Olin ED. She had the stats to apply to any Ivy. But she was completely in love with WashU and didn’t want anything else. WashU takes a lot of kids from her school also. But every year more and more apply. Don’t have numbers for this year. But last year they accepted 13 out of 62 applicants.
She gets really upset when the kids think that they got rejected or wait listed by WashU because they’re too good for it. WashU is definately not a safety for anyone. Her guidance told her that she should be able to get it if she applied ED, But there was no guarantee during RD cycle. And she wasn’t going to take that chance.
“Most people?” Now you are just making things up. WashU locks in less than a 1/3 of the class early. Compare this to Dartmouth and Penn, which lock in 1/2 their class ED, or to the top LACs.
At my kid’s school the Naviance shows that all the tippy-top applicants, with the exception of two people, from the past few years have been accepted to WashU. Most of these top kids also have Ivy acceptances.
@green678 For some reason I had the impression that WashU had over 50% ED - don’t know where that came from. My apologies. As for the applicants from your kid’s school, were they LL recipients from multiple Ivies?
Another thing to consider. WashU is looking for specific types of kids. Kids that will fit well with the friendly and cooperative vibe of the school. My daughter mentioned that all the kids she knows from her school that got accepted fit that criteria. And the kids that didn’t would fit better in a more competitive , cut throat environment. She goes to a very rigorous top 20 Ranked HS that’s very tough and competitive and didn’t want to be in that environment for the next 4 years. That’s what attracted her the most to WashU. I think kids personalities come through in their apps. So maybe those kids that get likely letters from Ivies don’t fit the WashU mold which means they wouldn’t be happy there
My kid got accepted to WashU and MIT(EA). Got the financial aid from WashU today. He will not be attending. Aid was joke. We could afford it if we cleaned out retirement account and sold the house. If we are to do that, we will do it for MIT.
Not a happy camper right now.
