So, I got into Wayne State and they gave me a distinguished scholarship so I only really have to pay $15,000 for four years. I also got into Michigan State University, and University of Michigan Ann Arbor. I want to study medicine, more specifically if it matters, Emergency Medicine. It has always been my dream to do EM, and now I can choose a path to make my dream a reality. So this is the dilemma. Some people are telling me to go to WSU since it is an easier school to get a high GPA, and I will have more free time to do things like volunteer, research, and study for MCAT. Other people tell me to go to U-Mich since it will give me a higher chance to get into medical school. HELP! I don’t know what to do. My gut feeling is telling me to go to WSU. I don’t care where I go to medical school, as long as it is IN STATE. Also, if I decide to go to WSU, what should my GPA be?
School - International Academy (#1 in Michigan, #9 U.S.A.)
GPA: 3.54 UW - 3.90 Weighted (My avg for Junior and Senior year UW is a 3.85)
ACT: 33 - yeah I didn’t get a 34 =(
The reason I posted my stats is because I wanted to get your opinion if I can handle U-Mich vs. WSU and what is the better option.
Medical schools know how competitive each college is and are able to discern between someone who went harder and got a lower GPA as opposed to someone who went lower and got higher numbers.
You should go to the school that you think will be the best match for you in terms of offerings and challenges.
UMich is a great school – but your stated goal is to get to Med school. For that, the three biggest factors are 1) GPA, 2) MCATs and 3) money. $15K for your entire undergrad is amazing. And knowing you’re one of the top scholars, you can be assured that your profs will know you and give you the extra attn you might not get at U-M. It’s not bad being a bigger fish in a small pond. My co-worker’s two daughters both turned down U-M Ross undergrad b/c they won presidential scholarships at Oakland. They’ve rec’d tons of internship offers, sat in on incredibly high level committees – all because the university recognizes them as some of the best there is on campus. That’s not a bad position to be in at all. And you can’t minimize the effect of med school’s cost. Go to the hospital parking lot near you. See all those old junky used cars? They’re driven by the residents and interns. They’re paying back beaucoup loans until into their 40s, in most cases. I’m familiar with IA’s culture – don’t let the “name chasing” affect you. Your classmates and their parents aren’t going to be donating to your med school tuition. Do what’s best for you and your family.
As for EM, it’s very competitive because it requires lots of initiative and willingness to make quick decisions. Maybe during some upcoming summers, see if you can shadow EMTs or other ER situations. I have a friend who is head of ER at a down river hospital. His path was very interesting. He started as an EMT. Then went to school for his nursing degree. Did that for a while – then went to MSU Med School. Graduated and continued to work in EM. Now heads his department. Neat story. Best of luck to you.
Medical schools are much less interested in prestige than they are in your GPA and MCAT (follow by the committee letter, which is an aggregated letter of recommendation from the college). For medical school, it’s better to be a debt free star student than an indebted middle of the pack at a more competitive place. Check with WSU about their medical school advising (they should have a student club around that subject) and how good the prep is for your MCAT (do they offer a prep class on campus?). You’ll still need to self study, but assuming the pre-reqs are well taught, you can do them anywhere.
S is a 3d hr med student right now and EM is on his radar. As T26E4 mentioned, he got his first exposure as a volunteer EMT. Now that he’s doing rotations in the hospital, he’s discovering new passions, so there’s time to evolve as you go along. But EMT training was a great start and got him in the door, first volunteering and then doing volunteer training and research at a community health clinic. He attended a small mid-western LAC that no one in our east coast urban area had ever heard of (although now it’s quite popular at his old high school since word gets around…)
By the way, check out Atul Gwande’s wonderful books about being a doc. “Better” is inspiring. S has read all his books.
Based on my experience, med school support will be much stronger at UMich or Michigan State. However, investigate carefully.
I’m afraid the distance between the typical Wayne State student and yourself (ACT 22), and even the top 25% (ACT26) Wayne State student and yourself, would mean you’re not as challenged as you should. It’s not as if you’ll be surrounded by kids who scored 30+ - only 9% students scored a 30 or more, and odds are very very low that there’ll be more than a handful who scored as high as you did. The average GPA is 3.2 and the typical class will be geared toward students who had a 3.2 in high school - probably not in-depth enough for you.
I assume you got into the Honors Program: how many classes would you take solely with honors students, and how many classes would be “general”? (because professors cue their class to the average student, not the tippy-one-exceptional one)
Another example: twice more UMich students applied to Wayne State Med School than Wayne State students. This would give you an idea of the winnowing - how many prospective premeds make it to the actual med school applications, since all Wayne State premeds who make it would be expected to apply to Wayne State’s SOM. Average scores on the MCAT are lower at Wayne State than from UMichigan. However, fewer Michigan State students applied to Wayne State.
What is your parents’ budget? What’s the cost [tuition, fees, room&board) - (scholarships, grants)] for each university? Do not count any loan.
There’s a difference between affordable but more expensive, and unaffordable. How affordable are all three universities?
The key question: leaving the scholarship aside, which will be the best VALUE for you - ie., which will let you reach your goals best?
^because a LOT more kids try than succeed (few kids succeed even at their own med school), and even though they have premed advising, the med school is NOT the undergrad program; also, MCAT does matter, and peer quality does affect med school preparation.
(I grant you that the phrasing “med school advising” was not the best, but sometimes I type fast and I don’t weigh every word… it conveys the essence of what I think.)
Roadto34 is not a marginal student who may have trouble in a more competitive program; this is a very competitive student, who would be challenged but by no means is unqualified for good grades at UMich or Michigan State.
Come on, if your son with a 33 ACT got into Bama and Jackson State, would you really advocate Jackson State?
UMichigan and Michigan State both offer good financial aid, with Umichigan being very good for in-state residents. I did ask if OP’s parents can pay for UMichigan without debt, but if OP can make it to either Umich or Michigan State financially, I really think they’d be a better choice.
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Come on, if your son with a 33 ACT got into Bama and Jackson State, would you really advocate Jackson State?
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no…I don’t think Jsu and wsu are comparable schools. If you’re asking if my son got into Bama or UAB, then that would be another story.
What would the cost be at MSU? Any merit there? I would think so.
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^because a LOT more kids try than succeed (few kids succeed even at their own med school), and even though they have premed advising,
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What are you saying here? Are you suggesting that too many premeds at WSU with an ACT 30+ “try but do not succeed” as premeds at WSU? I would very much doubt that.
These people are wrong. You will work just as hard to master the material at WSU as you would elswhere because that’s the kind of person you are (I hope).
And IMHO this really is the crux of the matter. Are you the kind of person with an inner drive to excel? Or are you going to drop down to the level of the competition?
If its the latter then sure, you probably could get strong grades at WSU with less work than it would take elsewhere, although there is even an element of doubt in that. It’s not everyone else at WSU and then you. There are going to be enough smart kids around gunning for good grades that its as easy as your friends seem to think.
If, however, you are the kind of person that really wants to learn then you will get there regardless of whether you are at WSU or elsewhere. There are no shortcuts to really mastering the material in technical classes; it will be as hard at WSU as anywhere else. And if you are that kind of person then profs will notice (eg. strong recs, lab opportunities, etc).
Furthermore it looks like WSU has a honors college; it says with a distinguished scholarship you receive a nomination to the honors college. That means special advising and a real gold benefit – early registration. Getting into all the classes you need every semester at a public is a real plus, ask any student.
As for premed advising, you can do a lot of the groundwork yourself. Here are a few links to get you started. There is a very informative FAQ at http://www.rhodes.edu/hpa/15890.asp They also have a nice writeup in the PreMed Essentials link on the left side of that page. Also take a look at http://www3.amherst.edu/~sageorge/guide1.html With these you’ll know what you need to do, you might then ask around at WSU (or wherever you enroll) to find out how it is done at that college.
We need to know OP’s budget and costs at each university.
But just because WSU is cheaper doesn’t mean it’s a good choice.
I looked at stats because I wanted a good AL equivalent and Wayne State has the same basic stats as Jacksonville State (sorry for slaughtering the university’s name though…) Similar to Troy, too. So, admitted to 'Bama, UAH, and Troy (or Jacksonville)… if there’s a good financial offer at the first two, and a better offer at the last one, the cheapest isn’t necessarily the best choice for a high-stats applicant.
I agree that if there’s a financial issue (parents can’t/won’t pay EFC, for instance), then Wayne State will do. But the difference between even WSu’s top students and this applicant is too great for it to be a good academic fit, so if UMichican or Michigan State are affordable, they’d be a better choice.
If the student got into UMich and financial aid doesn’t work (ie., needs merit), I would imagine that s/he’d get decent merit from MSU. And if the student has a low EFC, UMich is rather good with financial aid for its state’s residents. So, in my opinion, both choices would be superior to WSU.
I know I’m not clear… I meant that more kids try to be premeds than end up making it through (Umich has 28,000 undergrads, WSU has 18,000, and the numbers of premeds who apply to Wayne State SOM, which should favor Wayne State undergrads, show that there’s a huge discrepancy, indicating students who didn’t get enough advisng or didn’t make it through for various reasons… ) - lots are attracted by the med school and don’t realize there’s a big gap between the two… and can’t even qualify to apply to their own med school (let alone others in Michigan). Wayne State is not a horrible school… just not the best one, if something else is affordable, for this particular student.
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Some people are telling me to go to WSU since it is an easier school to get a high GPA, and I will have more free time to do things like volunteer, research, and study for MCAT.
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These people are wrong. You will work just as hard to master the material at WSU as you would elswhere because that’s the kind of person you are (I hope).
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The coursework will not be easier, but it might be “easier” to get a higher GPA simply because there will less ACT33-like students in the class. At a school like UMich, the premed prereqs will be full of similar or stronger students, and those classes will have limited numbers of A’s.
That said, if the student can get a good merit pkg from MSU, then that would be good as well.
But…The student shouldn’t think that med schools are going to care where he went to college. He’s very likely going to end up at a Mich SOM, and none of them are going to care where he went.
What are the parents saying? If they’ll happily pay for one of the other schools, then super. But if the other schools will require loans…and loans will also be needed for med school, then that would be a big concern.
^I agree. Med schools won’t care where the applicant went for undergrad.
However, this applicant may care where he went (only 9% WSu students make it to 30 on the ACT, and very very very few with a 33 attend. Top 25% is 25-26.)
If caring is a luxury that’s unaffordable (for instance, if OP’s parents can’t/won’t contribute), then be it, a college education is a college education.
I agree MSU may be a good compromise between Umich and WSU.
@roadto34act : can you explain the budget situation? Did you get merit scholarships at either UMich or MSU? Can your parents pay their EFC? Did you receive all three financial aid packages?
My parents are able and willing to pay for the full tuition at Umich, but it will be tight since they are also paying for my sister who currently goes to Umich in her fourth year and she will be applying to medical school in a couple of months. Looking at her gpa (3.9 something) and MCAT (32), I think she should be able to get into some medical school in Michigan and that tightens the budget even more for me. My parents are starting to push me to take the WSU offer. Looking at the statistics for WSU Med school (http://admissions.med.wayne.edu/class-profiles.php), it says that for WSU Undergrads, 42 went to their med school out of 173 (24%). UMich undergrads applicants are 589 and 78 went (13%). Average GPA was 3.74. For a student like me, if I go to WSU coming from an extremely competitive high school, can I maintain a 3.8+ and manage to get accepted to Waynes med school? God forbid, I don’t get accepted to Waynes med school, does MSUs D.O., or M.D regularly accept Wayne undergrads to their programs? I already know that UMich med school won’t really consider Wayne Undergrads, correct me if i’m wrong. Thanks in advance!
BTW, UMich did not offer me any merit scholarship, therefore I will pay what my sister paid for the four years (Around $80,000). MSU barely offered me any scholarship either.
“I already know that UMich med school won’t really consider Wayne Undergrads, correct me if i’m wrong.”
You’re wrong. The issue is that UMich is a state medical school which means they have a mandate to educate residents of Michigan who are likely to provide medical care to their residents. (You can check the stats on admissions for in-state vs. out-of-state for every medical school in the country.) Some state schools will admit no one who is a resident of another state. Others may take a few to meet diversity or other objectives. Private medical schools are not similarly constrained on admissions and can take whomever they want. If you live in a state with lots of resident pre-meds and very few seats in your state medical schools (like California), then most of those kids will have to look at private medical schools (much more expensive) elsewhere in the country. I don’t know off hand the ratio of available in-state medical school seats to number of in-state applicants for Michigan, but you can look it up. It will give you a sense of how difficult is will be (or not) to get into your state medical school(s).