<p>Okay so if Yale is need-blind and say that the admissions office and financial aid office operate in isolation, how do they know who is low-income??</p>
<p>I know… The whole need blind thing is pretty confusing… they say that it does not affect the decision whatsoever because, as you said the admissions office and financial aid office are independent, but one of the very first questions on the common app is “will you be applying for financial aid?” So basically, even if they don’t know exactly how much you need, they know if you’re applying (or not applying) for aid…</p>
<p>I think that quote is not referring to the admissions process as such; rather, Brenzel is noting how Yale officers actively go out and talk to many schools with lower income students, and encourage them to apply. </p>
<p>It’s vague as to how the admissions office and financial aid office actually do operate, but in terms of “lower income”, admissions officers can get a sense of it based on the sorts of activities an applicant does, what sorts of opportunities they have, what their teachers say about them, what they write their essays about, etc.</p>
<p>I wish I could confidently say that Yale is need blind.</p>
<p>Admitting students regardless of ability to pay is a little different than admitting students because of their socioeconomic status. When a college admits a student based on whether she can pay, they are effectively using the budget as a means to admit students. When Yale admits a student from a low socioeconomic status, Yale is “creating diversity” but doesn’t really care about its ginormous budget. Also, lower-income versus middle or upper income can be, but isn’t always, a pretty clear distinction. Low-income students are more likely to hold down jobs (and work more hours) and have fewer or no expensive trips or ECs. Colleges can also easily look at your parent’s jobs, education level, and zip code.</p>
<p>The fact that Yale actively recruits areas that traditionally haven’t had many applications to Yale means that in their efforts to continue to bring together great incoming freshmen classes, they want to find “diamonds in the rough”.</p>
<p>As for Yale knowing about an applicant’s economic status, applying for FA is only a very rough factor – about 80%+ of applicants do so. Among matriculated students 70% actually receive FA awards. I would set aside fears that one is disadvantaged in the admissions process b/c one applies for FA. Not many families in the US can afford $50K/year and Yale is fully cognizant of that fact.</p>
<p>However, each GC submitted HS report includes very clear demographic data which includes % kids who go to 2yr/4yr colleges and % kids eligible for Federally sponsored reduced/free lunches (a clear indicator of the income level of the district). </p>
<p>Look. Tons of kids who apply for FA are gonna be rejected. That’s a fact. But to assume that they’re rejected because they applied for FA goes against Yale’s decades long stance on need-blind admissions. There’s no conspiracy here. Yale spends hundreds of thousands of dollars recruiting in out of the way places – and these almost guarantee full-need applicants. They are going out of their way to recruit kids, great kids, that have very little likelihood of paying anything. They participate in Questbridge (not all Ivies do so) where every accepted kid is almost 100% full need. And then, they recruit Questbridge kids who didn’t choose Yale as choice #1. What does this say?</p>
<p>It’s good that schools like Yale are actively recruiting low-income students, because there is definitely this misconception out there that top-notch private universities are only realistic for those whose parents can afford to pay $50k a year. At my high school, the first thing that comes to many people’s mind when anyone mentions a school like Yale is “wow that’s so much money a year, students who graduate there must have a ton of debt!” So many people stopped looking at certain schools once they see the sticker price. When I first mentioned to my guidance counselor that at some top colleges, families with less than $60k income can have almost zero contribution, even she looked fairly surprised.</p>
<p>Well I’m just wondering how they know your low-income when they are creating a diverse class if the two departments work in separation??</p>
<p>I’m low-income, under $40,000 because I have a single Mum.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, Yale would never be able to tell. My Mum sacrificed a lot to send me to one of the best schools in our country and we are considered to live in one of the wealthiest areas in our country too. </p>
<p>My Mum also used to be a Doctor in China … so judging by my school, my area, my mums educational background etc … no one would ever guess I was low income. Oh. and I hav TONS of co-curs and no job because my mum said her sacrifices were for the school so I should take advantage of the school for a better job in the future …</p>
<p>"we are considered to live in one of the wealthiest areas in our country too. "</p>
<p>Usually, one can guess a student’s family income by looking up the median income for a zip code.</p>
<p>My condolences.</p>
<p>You could write your personal statement about your family’s struggles.</p>
<p>^ Ravenbelle. Same with me too, for a lot of stuff you just said. We live in a really wealthy area but Yale would not see that that we are low-income due to all those other factors you listed.</p>
<p>Anyone else have any advice about this?</p>
<p>I kind of mentioned our situation briefly in my essay, but you totally would not be able to tell from my other app parts… :(</p>
<p>I’m grateful for where I live then. The average yearly income where I live is around 50k, lots of kids get free lunch, and not many kids go to college…so, i guess this is a boost…</p>
<p>but, it also sucks because I didn’t get as many advantages as kids who go to “better” schools…so i think it all evens out</p>
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<p>@ravenbelle; Yale knows when you fill out your financial statement. You should be with Questbridge if you are @ 40k income.</p>
<p>Well, the point of attracting low-income students is to add students to the class who either haven’t had the same opportunities as middle and upper income students or students who can offer that different perspective. If you don’t appear low-income, you probably won’t fit that definition.</p>
<p>We submitted FA materials so Yale would know our real financial situations regardless of our zip codes. Numbers don’t lie.</p>
<p>@ tristan101: it’s great to know I’m not the only one!</p>
<p>I couldn’t bring myself to write about REALLY personal stuff in my essay though … maybe I should have.</p>
<p>@ Tookmaker: I’m not from the USA, but from New Zealand… I don’t think I qualify for Questbridge?</p>
<p>@ ZishuAW: So the Financial Aid department DOES work with the admissions department then??</p>
<p>No they don’t. What I mean was your FA package and decisions will be very comprehensive, not just a rough estimate based on location.
But the offices don’t work together. As for the statement in the title, I think that means Yale treats students equally and stay involved in programs like QuestBridge. But now I am a bit confused as well…if having similar achievements with low income would prove one applicant stronger than one from a rich neighborhood and having abundant opportunities, how can admissions officers ever KNOW? Maybe they still get to visit the FA files if they want but the need will not be a factor in the admissions process. My hunch.</p>
<p>Well, like I said. Being need-blind for admission is different from being socioeconomic status blind. Being need-blind for admission means that they admit you regardless of your ability to pay. This means that they have made the commitment to admit students regardless of their OWN budget, keeping in mind that Yale has promised phenomenal financial aid. That is NOT to say, however, that the benefits or detriments of socioeconomic status are not taken into account. There is a fine distinction.</p>
<p>ughh so tired of this. why can’t unbiased admissions exist? no disclosure of names, ethnicity, parents income/education level, parents country of birth, etc. you can write about your struggles in your essay. the rest of your app will speak for itself! I hate the idea of some students getting an edge over others due to factors we can’t control. pish posh</p>
<p>and “need blind” does not actually mean need blind. there’s a bias there, even if it is subconscious.</p>
<p>They’re not saying they give any preferences to low income students, just that they actively recruit them, probably through programs like Questbridge and various relationships with high schools in low income areas. We don’t know what the admission rate for low income students is - it may be lower than that of high income students. So let’s not jump to conclusions about bias - insufficient facts and frankly with a low income student rate of around 8% and a full payer rate of about 60%, it seems Yale might need to keep up their efforts to generate low income apps.</p>
<p>I think ppl who try to set themselves apart by using Questbridge are taking a HUGE risk. It’s like having a scarlet letter for “i’m poor and need full aid for everything”
now THAT would definitely influence decisions. it doesn’t help to call out more attention to the fact that you’re under economic hardhips</p>
<p>and the acceptance rate under questbridge is not that great:
ex: in 2008, 4889 applicants applied for the college match, only 16 ended up at Yale, which is =0.3%</p>
<p>and if you look at the demographics for questbridge, majority are hispanics and blacks, so colleges’ aim would probably be to use these programs for getting urms</p>
<p>moral of the story: unless you’re really really really poor and literally escaped poverty in africa, use the common app</p>