Probably the best aspect of the Scorecard is that it is easy to use, has an attractive interface, and does provide some solid, verifiable data. It’s an easy, good start for Joe First Time Mom/Dad/Kid to begin their college research without overwhelming them with overly complicated and detailed information. They can always delve deeper for more information once their college search begins to narrow.
A fine jumping-off tool.
I continue to disagree, I think it will have the opposite effect. The data can be very misleading, as these averages hide a ton of variability, yet people will potentially stop looking at what could be a great school choice just because they see a poor debt/outcome ratio for the entire school.
@TedMitchell thank you so much for posting here and asking for feedback on the Scorecard site. Scorecard has the potential to be a powerful aid for lower income families when considering the best colleges for their students. I really like that the reported income is restricted to students receiving federal aid as that number will be more meaningful than the number for the alumni as a whole, especially at institutions where a large percentage of the students are full pay.
As I’m assuming the focus is on the lower income students, it would be really helpful if the CoA was also reported only for the students receiving Pell Grants, especially for the two lowest income levels up to 30K and 48K. As it is now, some elites with very generous financial aid are showing higher numbers than the NPC and financial aid offers indicate. I’m assuming that some of this is due to averaging in the higher CoA for retired higher income families who are now reporting no or low income, but have substantial savings and investments. A family with an income less than 30K might be dissuaded from applying to a college which shows an average CoA of 10K for their income bracket. This school might in fact be one of the most affordable for that family, but a quick glance might give the wrong impression. I know that the NPC is critical for all families, but for those who are new to the college search, the figures listed might carry more weight initially. Maybe there could be a break-out chart showing average CoA for Pell Grant students only? I know that the actual CoA will still vary based on individual family finances and circumstances, but it might give a more realistic, and hopeful, picture.
I haven’t spent a lot of time on the site, so this info may be included, but it’s so important to emphasize that even with schools which say they meet 100% need, that this is based on the schools’ own interpretations of what the amount of need is and how it is met as some will include loans above the federal loans. As a low income parent, I also made the mistake of assuming that when a school lists their average percent of need met, that some students will receive less and some will receive more. I couldn’t imagine that a truly low income student would be expected to be able to afford a large gap between what’s offered for financial aid and what the family can actually do. Yes, everyone here repeatedly says to run the NPCs, but somehow I didn’t think it applied in our situation. I’ve learned a lot having been through the process.
Through reading here far more than I post, I’ve learned so much about how great the divide in knowledge is between those families with college graduate parents and those with first generation college students. There was so much I didn’t know that I didn’t even know the right questions to ask. It would be great if the Scorecard site could be a place where first generation students could get most of the information they need to get through the whole college application process. It would be great if info could be given by grade level starting with even 8th or 9th grade. Students need to be encouraged to take the harder classes and aim to excel as it is what will open doors for them throughout the rest of their lives. Links to scholarship programs like Questbridge, Gates Millennium and others would be helpful too. It’s important for students to know that it is a small percent who will be awarded the scholarships, but it’s still a great place to start.
In lower income families, the top students often do have options and some are fortunate enough to gain admission into some of the top colleges. Generally, there they will be supported academically and financially for all four years. But this is not so for all students. When you step down a tier from the top schools, 100% of need is usually not met. More often there’s a large gap even after federal and institutional grans, merit scholarships and federal subsidized and unsubsidized loans. Low income parents will usually not qualify for additional loans and it would be unwise for them to go into further debt. The additional amount of federal loans a student can take out if their parent is denied is also usually not wise. Students are under pressure in many ways and additional financial burdens cause extra stress. I believe that it’s due to finances that many students drop out of college. Isn’t there some way for students who are succeeding at college academically, but unable to meet the finances to continue their studies? I don’t know what the answer is, but it needs addressing.
I have more thoughts, but will end this post as I’m afraid of it getting too long and disappearing. If you’ve read through this, thank you. And thank you to President Obama for his commitment to making higher education more affordable.
The trouble is that many times there is no way to “dig deeper” to find information about what you might be expected to earn with a certain major. Such information is sporadic and limited on university websites. This leads to starry-eyed high school kids, who we see often on this site, who are prepared to shoot the moon and max out on loans because they think they’ll make $80,000 plus straight out of college. I really believe that a potential student should be able to do a cost/benefit analysis comparing a major at a range of colleges, using data which shows what they would have to borrow and what they might expect to earn. If a given college doesn’t offer a certain major they could just leave it off the list. If graduates are concerned about anonymity they could be allowed to opt out of data reporting.
Continuing …
One of the very real dangers for all students, but especially for low income students, is the practice of bait and switch. Some schools present their very best financial aid offer to students for their first year and then cut back substantially for the remaining years. I wish I had thought to do this before applications were completed, but afterward I checked the Common Data Set for individual colleges to see the percent of need met and the amount of average aid for freshmen and compared it with the percent and amount for the students as a whole. For the schools which are committed to assuring that lower income students graduate, the numbers had little variation, but for others the difference was huge - enough of a difference that for a family earning less than 30K it would likely mean that the student would be unable to graduate. And the raw numbers alone aren’t adequate as after doing the computations needed the gap is even larger than it initially appears. Could this information be included on Scorecard? Students need to know if they can afford to attend for all four years and not just the first one.
A drop in financial aid from schools is an obvious way that a college education can become unaffordable, but another is merit aid with high GPA requirements. Students should be advised to carefully consider financial aid offers which include large merit aid with GPA or other academic requirements. What may seem reasonable when considering the high GPA achieved in high school, and likely subject to grade inflation, may not be easily achieved with rigorous and grade appropriate courses, and even more so in some disciplines than others.
I’d also like to see students informed about work study. Too often families may not include that amount in the amount a student/family needs to pay. Tuition is paid before the student begins work, if they can get work. At some schools work-study jobs are readily available, but at others it may be hard for students to be hired especially during their first year. Prospective students need to know not to count on this amount being there for them.
Many here say that low income students have it made as far as affording college. I see it very differently. They are referring to the few who are admitted to one of the most generous colleges and have only a small contribution. This is such a small percentage. Most can be derailed from their graduation plans in so many ways. What would be seen by most students as a small inconvenience may be insurmountable for those with little resources. It could be fees which weren’t accounted for, higher transportation costs, extra-curricular expenses, needing weather appropriate clothing, not being able to afford on or off campus housing, not being able to afford the meal plan or having access to cooking facilities, higher costs for books or for personal expenses. When these students are faced with unexpected expenses, they can’t just call home for help. Sometimes their earnings at school are even used to help the family at home survive. It would be great if there was some sort of emergency fund for these students to enable them to continue their education. Sometimes all it would take is few hundred. Some schools have a safety net in place, and others don’t. Again this will likely be reflected in the graduation rate.
Regarding CoA, it can be so difficult comparing the actual costs of various colleges. There is no standard of what’s included as far as transportation costs, books, personal expenses, etc… It can make it challenging to subtract out the variable costs and then add in what you think your own student’s costs would be. At the least, information about how to compare costs with schools using different formulas would be helpful. Ideally the student could be shown average costs for the college and then have the ability to input what their actual costs might be. Transportation is one of the expenses which will vary greatly depending on distance and airlines. Students and their families need to understand that their costs may be less, or may be more and to account for that in their planning.
Thank you again.
Does the Scorecard link to the CDS? I can’t access it right now. That would be perhaps a more valuable link than the NPC for those who want to delve further.
@prospect1 I haven’t found a link to the CDS. That would be great along with information about what types of information to look for specifically with regard to costs. I noticed that sometimes the link is to the college’s own NPC and sometimes it links to the College Board’s NPC. The school’s own NPC would be preferable in my opinion.
@TedMitchell another large item cost which is often left off the CoA figure is health insurance. It would be great if Scorecard could include information as to the cost and give specific information as to when the college will waive the insurance and whether the cost would be covered for low income students and the specifics of that as well. The amount for required health insurance can be 2 to 4K.
I haven’t read all areas of the site, but one thing to point out is that the EFC, as determined by FAFSA, is applicable only to federal aid in the form of the Pell Grant. Students and their families need to understand that this amount will be the lowest they will be expected to pay at a college (with the exception of scholarships) and their student/family contribution may be significantly higher.
This may be covered as I haven’t fully explored the site, but it would be great if costs of applications, testing, test score sending and the CSS Profile application were listed. Rules as far as fee waivers and procedures should also be covered. Can anyone urge the CB to consider allowing more waivers for low income students? Students who need a lot of aid and need to apply to the most selective colleges need more than 8 Common Application waivers and more than 4 free SAT score reports and I think it’s 6 freebies for the CSS Profile. It’s not nearly enough and the costs can end up in the hundreds very easily. The ACT score reports cost less, but there’s a separate cost for each test date. These are all obstacles for the truly low income students. Please help to remove or lessen some of these barriers. I think the CB can afford to be a bit more generous. Low income students need to pay the $25 for the CSS Profile for their 2nd, 3rd and 4th years as there is no waiver available.
The CDS may be more useful than the NPC for some types of data gathering for studying college policies and the like. But the NPC is likely to be more useful than the CDS for an individual student trying to find out if the college’s financial aid will make it affordable to him/her.
Links to both would help, but not all colleges publish their CDS (although a significant subset of the CDS information can be found in http://www.collegedata.com ).
@somuch2learn there isn’t a limit on common app free waivers. The testing and score sending though, and profile, can add up.
@OHMomof2 thank you for the correction! It’s been two years and I forgot. I’m probably remembering trying to get individual waivers for the CSS Profile. Most of the tax documents were sent through IDOC for free, well included in the cost for the CSS, but some had to be mailed or even faxed. More costs that would be inconsequential for most applicants but can be costly for low income families.
Beat you to the thread by two days @TedMitchell http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1810320-white-house-releases-college-scorecard-website.html#latest
My question, is there available information dividing the specific majors and showing their income.
I would like to see 4 year graduation rates. Analyzing the cost, without consideration of the time, leaves out a huge variable.
One more comment–I didn’t really focus on the fact that the scorecard looks at income 10 years after entering the college. This, I don’t think, is what most people would mean by “ten years out.” Indeed, if somebody takes six years to graduate, that’s only four years after college. This time period pretty much eliminates anybody who is going to graduate school, and significantly impacts people going to medical school, who will generally still be in training six years after college. Ten years after enrollment isn’t really mid-career for anybody, even people who go directly to work after graduating in four years. If the data are available, it would be more useful to see the income at various points, like 10 and 20 years after enrollment.
Here’s an excerpt from last week’s Washington Post review of the scorecard:
“Administration officials acknowledge there are still some gaps in the data. Graduation rates, for example, are based on first-time, full-time students and don’t include part-time or returning students. And earnings don’t include differentiations among occupations. The hope is for continuous improvement and refinement of the site. But any questions about the need to provide this information can be put to rest with its use the first four days after its launch.”
To complete the quote in #113, it said there were millions of page views—leaving unsaid the implication that that means it’s all good and useful and perfect-enough data.
Le sigh.
I don’t think that’s what it means. It means, IMO, there is a “need to provide this information” - however imperfect it may be at this time.
@dfbdfb - those millions of page views may have come from just us parents on CC… jk jk…
http://collegemeasures.org/ Some interesting information can be found on this website.
http://collegemeasures.org/post/2013/09/View-full-report-here.aspx
This report shows income data for 2 and 4 year schools and some technical certificates for certain colleges in 5 states.
Those ESM reports are exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully more states will add their data soon.