<p>I think you have to accept that some folks just won’t listen to the warning signs as they have too much of themselves wrapped up in the outcome and have upped the ante and are calling the bluff of the decision makers they are playing poker against. Unfortunately, they are sitting on a pair of Jacks against a Full House.</p>
<p>Having watched girls hockey for a number of years and listening to my daughters older friends disappointments in their college athletic outcomes. So many players (and especially parents) hold out on the D1 scholarship as validation of their “effort”. I can think of one particular goalie who last year was bragging about all the D1 schools that were talking to her. Unfortunately, the talk blinded her (and her parents who seem to throw money to cover all of her shortcomings) to the fact that you need acceptable D3 schools lined up in case D1 falls through (there is no D2 womens hockey). The D3 coaches understand that there are a lot of borderline kids and generally understand if you turn them down for a D1 opportunity. </p>
<p>So when the music stopped and this girl and her family realized that the D1 opportunities went to other players, the best D3 schools already had their prime candidates admitted and financed (coaches make sure you get all the merit money you are eligible for if you get your application in early). This girl is now trying to walk on at a top D3 where they have 2 other Canadian goalies coming in. The resulting 5 goalies (2 returning) will not all make the team and I am betting against the walk-on.</p>
<p>Having listened to goaliegirl talk about this particular goalie, there was no way that she or her family would listen to the advice of having a “safety” D3 school lined up. She (the goalie) had been invited to National Camp a couple of years out of what is typically one of the weakest districts in the country. They drank the Kool Aid, not understanding that making the camp is a very arbitrary selection where politics, a poor selection process, and the vagueries of random chance often result in a less than optimal choices.</p>
<p>Goaliegirl and I have come to not take seriously the USA Hockey district tryout process. We’ve watched one particular goalie get selected the last 2 years from another district who goaliegirl had a chance to share a net with at a prestigious camp/tournament last summer. Their team won the camp tournament despite this other goalie’s performance (let in 2x as many goals and couldn’t even suit up for the championship game because she wasn’t properly conditioned - slacked off at workouts all week long). </p>
<p>I had the opportunity to sit in the stands near this other goalie’s father. Listening to him talk about her “achievements”, I’m sure he would never consider a D3 school. What he doesn’t realize is that his daughter is a slacker (word has it that this wasn’t the first place she slacked at) and that the coaches (mostly top D1) at this camp take notes and talk.</p>
<p>I’m betting on their having a huge disappointment next spring.</p>
<p>Sorry to drag so far OT, but the point remains the same - Some parents won’t listen to sound college strategy (have a solid safety school). Don’t beat yourself up.</p>
<p>Right you are goaliedad. My older daughter played sports and had some impressive credentials. However, when you realize high schools out number colleges 10-1 these colleges have an abundance of kids to choose from. If your S or D doesn’t have a solid D1offer going into senior year, then start looking at the next lower level. Even at that you should probably expect only a partial scholarship… or at D3 (no scholarships) only a moderate degree of preferential packaging… but not nearly a full ride. In my D’s case she opted for the crew team in college, a sport she had never done before, and loves it. There is no scholarship but I’m supposing it looks good on a resume to have been a college athlete. In the long run only a tiny percentage of parents will have a S or D in DI (scholarship athletics).</p>
<p>I’ll go you one step further. Of students who are at a D1 school on a ride, only a very small percentage will go on to be professional. And of those who do become professional only a very small percentage will make enough to live on and pay for their sport. During the March Madness one year there was a great series of commercials about this and I have some immediate experience (not my kids) with D1/Pro sports.</p>
<p>If nobody’s happy, why did she apply there? One of the first things we learned from CC is that it’'s not a safety if the kid doesn’t want to go there! It sounds like this family did not know their EFC and/or how these schools calculate need, did not understand average % need met with/without loans does not include the EFC, and did not target well for merit aid. There’s probably a silver lining - Ithaca is notorious for “nickel and diming” above the COA and many people complain about all the extra fees they have to come up with. And kids are resilient, so she may end up loving her state school!</p>
<p>We were happy with about half the offers my D received this year and only one was really bad (but we had heard this school offered little in FA). Some privates gapped us a bit more than we thought, but the merit aid we had estimated was dead on target. She got a great offer from her safety, instate public, and also discovered along the way that they have the best program for her major. It’s a bigger school than she originally wanted, but has such a good vibe that she’s decided to attend.</p>
<p>What always gets me is that when people buy a car, electronics, etc. they do research, buy Consumer Reports etc before they buy! A college education for your child/children will be your 2nd most expensive purchase in your life, the first being your home of course. Why not do the research? Why go into this process totally blind, not knowing anything about financial aid? That is what the colleges want-an uneducated consumer, then they can keep more of their institutional grant money! If you do the research, calculate your EFC’s, look at “AVG % of Need Met”, apply to realistic schools, the whole process will be less painful & the outcome will be a happy one! </p>
<p>I was willing to advise two of D’s friends about financial aid & what schools they should consider, but no one was interested in what I had to say, naturally! They both ended up at schools where they probably will not stay all 4 years, they will have to transfer. One parent told me they couldn’t afford their child’s choice for all 4 years! What a way to start, knowing you won’t graduate from your school-better not get too attached to your new friends, either!</p>
<p>Over the years I’ve also known people who just won’t spend the money, even if they have it. A coworker only allowed his daughter to apply to three schools because he claimed the application process was too expensive. When I told him my D applied to 15 schools at a cost of seven hundred dollars he almost fell out of his chair. I drive a 1996 rust bucket and we rarely take expensive vacations. He drives a 30k plus SUV and takes really expensive vacation twice a year. His D was top 10% of her class. She went to the overcrowded, under funded, state u. She knew her parents income, and the general income of the folks living around her who sent their kids to better schools. She is still angry to this day and considers her parents “cheap”. Given how hard she worked and her the expectations she held through high school I can’t say I blame her. Her parents placed the carrot out there and then when they considered the effect the cost of college would have on their lifestyle the carrot was withdrawn. It seems almost cruel.</p>
[quote]
Her parents placed the carrot out there/quote]</p>
<p>How did they put a carrot out there? I cannot criticize decisions individual families make, but how was this girl mislead? Why did she feel entitled to something more? If a family is providing a college education where are they ‘failing’ in their duties? I can undersand the injustice ( or “cruel”) of a dual income family telling their kids they won’t pay a dime for college, but I cannot fault a family for making individual decisions about what they are willing to pay. Sorry, but I don’t think the parents are cruel and I think the girl, if she indeed thinks her parents are cheap, is out of line.</p>
<p>actually, the total value of my son’s college education will be more than 2x what I paid for my house. My total out of pocket (EFC +) will be about 75% of what I paid for my house.</p>
<p>In other words, I could have almost paid off my mortgage but my son is going to college instead</p>
</a>
<p>Good point, sueinphilly, maybe I have it reversed! Probably after we put the 4 children through college for 11 consecutive years, we will have spent more on their college educations than on our house! I am now joking to them that one of them better be very successful so we can live in a “guest house” on their estate or perhaps an in-law apartment? I would certainly hate to end up living in a cardboard box somewhere. H makes the jokes about the box somewhat like the way my father used to about “going to the poor house.” Did any one else’s parents use the “going to the poor house” line?</p>
<p>I can’t see doing this–sending a kid off to college knowing that he or she can only stay for a couple of years. </p>
<p>I’ll have spent more on college than what my house is worth now. But I’m hoping that the housing market will perk up sometime in the next 4 years…</p>
<p>To answer the question regarding the D being mislead. She had floated the names of some elite private schools which her parents never ruled out. She apparently was never told her choices would be limited to state schools, or that her applications would be restricted to three. Given the annual income of these folks 170K and the potential of the child, top 10%, I too feel they could have done more. Forty years ago a private college education was not insurmountable for a kid paying his own way. Many parents back then did not help at all. Applying that rationale today or farming your kid out to a underfunded state school with a four year grad rate of about 20% when you could well afford better does seem unfair unless you’d advised the child of that well in advance. I’m thinking if you can afford a condo in St. Thomas you could probably do a bit more for your child’s education than three aps and the bare bones state u down the road. I don’t blame her for being dissapointed… but that’s just me.</p>
<p>We knew a family like that, nightingale, I think the father was an attorney. The child was a top student & he visited & applied to the top private schools in the New England area.
When he was accepted at a few, unfortunately the parents said no, too expensive etc. & he ended up at a public school. To this day I wonder if that is why he moved so far away from home after he graduated? Probably same situation: parents did not want to give up their life style, make a few sacrifices & so on.</p>
<p>There may have been other issues involved and the college thing might have been a symptom. I grew up in a very unhappy environment and two of my sisters moved to the opposite side of the country - it felt like they wanted to get as far away from household issues as possible.</p>
<p>I have many wealthy friends who think $50,000 per year for college is not worth the money. Remember most professionals or families that have higher than average incomes have to foot pretty much if not the whole tab. No where is it an unwritten rule that if you make more than the average family that you are somehow morally obligated to spend a couple hundred thousand per kid for their undergraduate degree. I have yet to see any relative documentation that proves that a $50,000 per year school delivers a “better undergraduate education” than a $20 -25,000 per year school. Fortunately anyone who can’t foot the whole bill, can apply and maybe get some finaid. If it’s not enough then there are other options. And any adult who can foot the bill for their kids can decide if they want to spend that amount of money or not. In my family case, my husband would never spend that amount of money, I on the other would. We compromise and set a budget for the kids. Does that mean that we are selfish? I think not. Do I feel bad for the kids that we set a budget. Not really, they are fortunate that we can afford to send them to college at all. Is it a good compromise for our marriage…yes. Will my S2 be disappointed if he has to turn down his first choice because the package doesn’t meet the in the state they are currently attending college. “Going far from home” is not necessarily a “rejection” of the family. Of course the OPs friends are disappointed for their kids that they can’t send them where they want to. Finally, of course if the parents have to have private vs. public or need to be in a certain region then they do need to shop the school around for the financial criteria first. But generally parents and the kids do it backward and look for the schools first, then shop the finances so the want comes before the need.</p>
<p>Many that are wealthy got that way with an innate or learned ability to value and price
things efficiently. It’s not surprising that many would do the same thing with a college
education. I also know wealthy individuals that are very frugal when it comes to college
expenses. They will look for a quality solution at a good price.</p>