Weight and theatre...

<p>The Guys & Dolls "babe" is Sarah Brown.</p>

<p>Our mostly white high school recently cast an AA girl as Golde. She may have been the only AA in the cast. I think high schools, especially small schools, have to use what talent they have regardless of race. She did a great job. That being said, I will admit the recent race-blind castings of Cinderella and Annie did not work for me. I had a hard time believing that a white Daddy Warbucks fell in love with a black Grace. That just would not have happened in the 1930's (at least not publicly), and therefore the illusion was ruined for me.</p>

<p>Well.. I was also Sasha in Fiddler, and being the only asian, they made it possible, but yeah, I guess it would be quite strange to see a white jewel in "whorehouse" or even a black or white Kim in "Miss Saigon", I just feel like the part would "fit-in" with the rest of the show.</p>

<p>I think that many productions can be cast in an "non-traditional" way.. it often can bring a different or stronger message to the production. Casting can never be "blind" because most audiences are not blind... as a director you have to realize what the message that many audience members may take away from a production... for example... if you cast Romeo and Juliet with a AA Juliet and a white Romeo many audience members will read a message into that casting choice whether that is your intent as a director or not. This does not mean that a director should not make that choice... (s)he simply has to understand that some audience members may read into it. </p>

<p>There are some theatre companies, East West Players in LA for an example, that make a point of cast predominately Asian production fo plays.. Diary of Anne Frank, being one of them... </p>

<p>All that being said... in a professional production the artistic team does have the right to make choices based upon "type"... in a HS production, who cares... the point is to offer the HS students a performance enrichment opportunity. If a director who teaches in a HS that is racially mixed and feels strongly that a production must be cast to specific ethnic type, I guess (s)he or she should only choose shows that call for mixed race casts. I find it incredibly depressing that the student at paying3tuitions' school had to learn an ugly lesson at such a vulnerable time in her development. What a horrible lesson for her, and the other students to learn... Good for her and all of you who supported her going forward with a complaint.... hopefully the painful lesson was turned around slightly by the community support, and the teacher opened his/ her mind... I agree... completely outrageous...</p>

<p>I don't think that the same rules apply for Raisin in the Sun and Fiddler on the Roof. "Raisin" is about the struggles of an African-American family and probably needs black or dark-skinned actors to make sense. It's an intense drama with a small cast. However, once we enter the world of musical theatre, I think that the rules are more relaxed, especially for high school and college productions, and even on Broadway. (Think of the amazing Audra McDonald as Carrie in Carousel. The "world" of Fiddler on the Roof is clearly defined, and I think that actors of many different ethnicities could play most of the main roles (especially with the beards and head-coverings). Joseph Papp lives on.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If a director who teaches in a HS that is racially mixed and feels strongly that a production must be cast to specific ethnic type, I guess (s)he or she should only choose shows that call for mixed race casts.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think this is the key. It's been my experience that a lot of high school directors don't think very deeply about matching their talent/potential cast to the play. I once saw a middle school have AT THE SAME TIME, four professional male triple threats, and they decided to do ... Annie.</p>

<p>Actually, Kat, I do care about illusion, even in high school. I have no trouble with your R&J example, because there's now a social norm of casting AAs in Shakespeare in all sorts of roles. I would have no problem with non-Caucasian casting in Uncle Vanya or Hedda Gabler or Cyrano or My Fair Lady or Grease, for instance. But a play that is about race or religion puts an untenable burden on both the actor and the production when it is cast against type. Can you imagine an all-white Porgy and Bess? What about an all black Tobacco Road? How about an Asian singing "Old Man River"?</p>

<p>I wish I could be Coalhouse Walker Jr.</p>

<p>Ah, but the reason there's now a "social norm" of casting AA's in Shakespearean roles, and the reason that many would have no trouble now accepting "non-traditional casting" in Chekov is because some directors over the last 20 years have been willing to push the envelope of acceptability. If they hadn't, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. In my opinion, we need to keep pushing that envelope, especially in schools, and maybe even in plays where race is the central issue. </p>

<p>It's amazing, actually, what audiences will accept. Over ten years ago, I did a production of Caryl Churchill's Top Girls in which Marlene was Irish-American and her sister Joyce was African-American. I didn't have any complaints and no one was confused. The actors said they were sisters so, voila!, they were sisters. I think we sometimes make too much of an issue about credibility, when in fact people come to the theatre and go to the movies and read books fully prepared to engage in the willing suspension of disbelief. I mean, how else do you account for Harry Potter?</p>

<p>A bit of history for the younger set: the term "non-traditional casting" comes from the Non-Traditional Casting Project, established by Sharon Jensen and others in 1986. Here's a portion of their mission statement:</p>

<p>(see next post)</p>

<p>"Established in 1986, the Non-Traditional Casting Project (NTCP) is a not-for profit advocacy organization whose purpose is to address and seek solutions to the problems of racism and exclusion in theatre, film and television. The only organization of its kind in the country, NTCP's principal concerns are that artists who are African American, Asian American, Caribbean Black, South Asian, Latino, Arab American, Persian American, Native American, Deaf and hard of hearing, blind and low vision, artists who have mobility disabilities, physical disabilities or developmental disabilities are denied equitable professional opportunities; and that this exclusion is not only patently discriminatory, but a serious loss to the cultural life of the nation. Furthermore, this exclusion has resulted in a theatre, film and television industry that does not accurately reflect the diversity of our society."</p>

<p>Twenty years ago, it was unusual to see non-Caucasian actors in regional productions of Shakespeare, Chekov and other classics. Conversely, it was still common for Caucasian actors to play Asian characters. Some here remember, I'm sure, the controversy over Jonathon Pryce playing the Vietnamese Engineer in Miss Saigon in 1991. I had a lot of sympathy with the protest. Things are changing, but we're not there yet. It's worth visiting NTCP's website: <a href="http://www.ntcp.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.ntcp.org&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

<p>I also found a brilliant little piece (by googling "non-traditional casting") from a law professor at the University of Maryland:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.law.umaryland.edu/arts/non-trad-casting.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.umaryland.edu/arts/non-trad-casting.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>She includes some interesting facts about Porgy and Bess and August Wilson, who thought non-traditional casting was dangerous. But Mr. Wilson was deeply committed to creating works in which African-Americans could play their own history, not the history of Irish- or Italian- or Jewish-Americans, a position which also makes sense. But it doesn't invalidate the need for open casting in other productions. Race will only become meaningless when it's treated as meaningless. </p>

<p>I'm willing to debate this topic. I thought about asking College Mom to lift it out and establish it as a separate thread. But weight is a type-casting issue too, and that's really what we're talking about. So maybe this belongs here.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>drjohn --</p>

<p>what about weight in terms of college admissions? what's your take on the weight issue? i've always been interested in how much someone's weight really plays into the admissions decision.</p>

<p>just to add to sporti's question, I've always wondered how much looks in general really played into an audition for MT schools. To have a similar body type is one thing, but what if you're just not as good looking as everyone?</p>

<p>Weight and looks certainly play a part in college admissions decisions for Acting and Musical Theatre. As I wrote a couple of years ago, no one would recruit a class of all 5'8" blondes, no matter how beautiful. </p>

<p>That said, however, different schools approach this differently. Some appear to have an ideal model of young leading men and women, and recruit accordingly. It probably helps their graduates in the short term, because their 22-year-olds look like what directors often want in a 22-year-old. </p>

<p>At the other end of the spectrum, some schools want a wide range of types. We fall into the latter category. The biggest person in our department is a 6'4" 330 lb. freshman acting major, one of the funniest young actors I've seen, a Jonathon Winters/Jackie Gleason type. The smallest is a 5' sophomore musical theatre dance major who's a stunning dancer and singer, a Kristin Chenoweth type. She'll work immediately after graduation. It may be a few years before he grows into the character man he's destined to become. </p>

<p>It may not be easy to find out a given school's approach. But looking at a photograph of their senior showcase might give you a clue.</p>

<p>Tarhut, True that a "race-blind" Porgy and Bess in a professional setting would be odd :)... but in an educational setting the students could learn quite a bit from working on the challanging material, and through walking in another's shoes. Again, by making a "non-traditional" choice the director would be pushing the envelope, and (intentionally or not) perhaps making a statement with many members of the audience. </p>

<p>A production produced in this way would have to be done with sensitivity, but in a HS environment the point of the theatre productions is to give the students opportunities for artistic and intellectual growth... both the students on stage and the students who attend a production. I directed HS theatre for a few years before going to graduate school, and it was always important to remember that the productins were less about me making my mark as a director, and more about the student's exposure to the material, and growth.</p>

<p>However, all educational cultures are different, and if a director in a HS setting feels strongly that the cast of a production needs to be made up of specific ethnic groups, and as a result will be automatically exclude 2/3 of the student body from participation in the production, (s)he may want to consider a different play. In the case of Fiddler, I would be curious if the director's commitment to racial accuracy was expanded to only casting students of Russian Jewish background?</p>

<p>As artists it is our responsibility to push the envelope, take risks, and challange audiences to open their minds. if "non-tradtional" casting is ever going to become "traditional" it is the artists who are in the position of casting that need to make the change. </p>

<p>Very interesting conversation to grow out of an initial question about weight and theatre :)!</p>

<p>I was a working professional when NTC started to make inroads. I was one of the early supporters, and I assume that there are still letters from me hidden in files in the vaults of many theaters and the Actor's Equity office in New York. The issue then, as it is now, is that ethnic actors had a huge struggle to succeed because there were so few roles specifically written for them. If we didn't open up Shakespeare, Restoration Comedy, and the like to ethnic actors, they would find it nearly impossible to make a living.</p>

<p>Now, I'm going to switch topics for just a minute before coming back. I promise it's relevant (or at least I think it is).</p>

<p>I once had a director who told an amusing story about himself. He was directing a play (the title escapes me) in the university in which he worked, and he needed some junk to litter the stage. So, he went to storage and found a lot of stuff. One thing he found was a large cross, which he placed on the stage propped up at an angle for no particular reason except that it looked pretty good that way. Opening night came and the curtain went up and closed. The young director greeted people backstage afterwards, and the first thing someone said was, "I really enjoyed the show. But I spent the whole time wondering how to tie in the symbolism of the cross. What was that about?" When the young director told the man that it meant nothing at all, the man was incensed. He had been deceived and sent on a fool's errand to extract meaning from the meaningless.</p>

<p>Symbolism matters, and in some cases, the color of someone's skin is a symbol. Let's take a concrete example. Say I'm doing Othello. Like most of Shakespeare's great plays, Othello has many themes. A director can choose to emphasize or deemphasize those themes as she chooses by the way she cuts the script, the staging, the shape of the scenes, the concept, etc. I suppose it's possible that a director could decide to excise all references to race, but that would gut the play. Othello, on a very deep level, is about mistreatment of a blackamoor. His actions and motivations make most sense in light of what we know or infer about the many slights visited upon him because of his race.</p>

<p>Now, if you cast a white man as Othello, what happens to the play? If you want to cast Othello as white and everyone else as black, that might be interesting and useful. But what about a white Othello, a black Cassio, and a white Des. What would I make of all those lines referring to Othello's blackness? What would it mean that the white Othello is insanely jealous over Des's attraction to a black man? I would spend my whole time wondering what that leaning cross on stage was meant to mean. And if the NTC in a play that is mostly ABOUT race is just some whim of color-blindness on the part of the director, I'm going to be ticked for being put through the intellectual exercise of trying to figure out what something means, when it means nothing.</p>

<p>I see theater everywhere. If I stop at some motel on a long car trip and there's community or college or high school theater going on, I'm going to go. Some of what I see is amateurish, of course, but I love that stuff! What I hate is when a devotion to NTC turns a play incomprehensible, or even ugly. For instance, I saw a production of Little Shop where the entire cast was white. It was an area of the country where it must be very hard to find any African Americans at all, let alone ones who act and sing. In this case, the white women did the AA dialect in the script. It was rather uncomfortable, and came off as racist. </p>

<p>So, as you can see, the point I'm trying to make is that, in those cases where an actor's race must be interpreted as symbolic, NTC had better tie in to the concept and there had better be meaning in the casting or the audience will be deceived. It is also imperative that it not come off as mocking in any way.</p>

<p>Theater professionals are in the business of illusion. Illusions work only so long as the audience suspends disbelief. It is not difficult to suspend disbelief by casting an AA Viola, Menelaus, or Nora. There's nothing in those plays that has anything to do with race (that I recall). But if a play has racial conflict as its theme, NTC becomes symbolic, and that changes the meaning of the play. One must be very careful with that.</p>

<p>[Note: It just occurred to me that it might be quite interesting to cast Shylock and his daughter as African Americans. Since the play is about discrimination, that choice might increase the power of the main point of the play. For "Fiddler," I could see casting the entire family as AA for the same reason.]</p>

<p>
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It may not be easy to find out a given school's approach. But looking at a photograph of their senior showcase might give you a clue.

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</p>

<p>Both Chris Reeve and Tom Gibson attended Juilliard. They are virutally identical. This doesn't mean you have to look like one of them to get in (Reeve roomed with Robin Williams, I believe). But if you do look like that, it's probably helpful. Gibson is a serviceable straight man and so was Reeve.</p>

<p>have you ever seen Tommy Tune tapdance? yes, he's thin, but he's also about 6'6" and amazing.</p>

<p>I think it's important, too, to remember that sometimes things come out of parents' mouths that sound harsh, but the reality is that they are trying to guide you in a direction that will make you happy. Perhaps it is the only way your mother knows to tell you that if you get into better shape, you will have more opportunities for parts?</p>

<p>I have previously made comments about non-traditional casting so won't repeat them. I do want to make a comment in terms of size though.
Defy you sound very comfortable with your size, physically active, and healthy all of which are great. Because at one time I worked an open call audition for Lion King and one comment the casting director made did stick with me. He said that when he looked at auditionees, it was important that the person looked fit and strong enough to do 8 shows a week, week after week. He said he found this a problem with many of the open call AA's he saw, they may have great voices but were not "in appearance" physically fit enough for the job. Maybe this was just a nice way to couch prejudice, I can't say.
But in different case, my husband does alot of community theatre. One man in his 30's, excellent singer/actor but clearly overweight and not fit, does a lot of work with him. In one particular show every time this man came on stage I was concerend that he might have a heart attack. It was distracting to me as an audience member. I don't know if he was larger during this show, if it was the costuming, or the requirements of the show but in this show his size and assocaited fitness level was distracting.
I don't know what colleges do, but I would guess that being healthy and fit in your body would be very important factors to convey.
(I am not sure the opposite is ever imposed on women - are they too thin to be healthy, as some I have seen certainly appear to be.)</p>

<p>doctor john - you wrote:

[quote]
It may not be easy to find out a given school's approach. But looking at a photograph of their senior showcase might give you a clue.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are there photos on Otterbein's website of senior class showcases? I looked, and couldn't find any - but that doesn't mean they don't exist :) Some schools have things there that are very difficult to locate, if you don't know exactly where to look.</p>

<p>And - to echo keepingcalm's point - size will matter more if you look unfit. For example, if you get winded during the dance call, that would be telling. If you can sail through it with apparent ease, (even if not with great technique) that tells a totally different story.</p>

<p>And, I would think making sure your appearance at auditions shows that you take pride in yourself tells a different story than some large people, who "hide" themselves under big, baggy clothing.</p>

<p>I don't know if Otterbein has a picture of their senior class on their website but it seems like there was one with the information that we received.</p>

<p>KatMT, you wondered, "In the case of Fiddler, I would be curious if the director's commitment to racial accuracy was expanded to only casting students of Russian Jewish background?"
Her "take" on what it meant to look like an Eastern European Jew went as far as Caucasian skin, so she cast that show from the 1/3 of the h.s. that was white, even if they had red hair and freckles, so she sliced and diced it weirdly. If she wanted a Russian Jewish "look" she should have made everyone wear brunette wigs. So it was a bad choice, especially for that one AA actress. At least she DID learn from the community's intervention and the following year, cast the same person as the lead for Guys & Dolls. In my family we felt, all along, that the director tipped the balance too far in the direction of hoping her productions looked professional and too little towards seeing her role as an educator, providing access to many kids to engage in theater and discover its joys. She took herself waaay to seriously, in other words, fancying herself a Broadway producer, and forgot to be a teacher. Since the school district was 1/3 in equal measure Caucasian, AA, Latino, she essentially wed herself to a casting approach to Fiddler that excluded 2/3 of the demographic of students from consideration. As it was the school's only annual production, and the district was quite poor so it loomed large in excitement throughout the town, this was a poor way to go. As some said here, either the director should have chosen a different play or simply cast it race-blind. Since it was such a well-integrated community, it would look more normal to see "everyone" on stage than just any one slice of the community. I guess I conclude that h.s. productions should be joyful opportunities to provide as many kids as possible some access or insight into the wonderful world of theater! The director did move on to another district, BTW, and the AA student went on to a fine university that she enjoys a lot, and does some theater there now mostly for pleasure (not hoping for professional work post-college).
Before she left town, the student stopped by to tell us that it meant a lot to her when we guided her to bring the situation to a Human Rights Commission, only for discussion. She didn't want to litigate, simply not her style, but it was obvious to all in the community that her gaining the lead in the following year was the director's important way of apologiziing to her publicly. This actress had also been among the very top academic students in the h.s., experienced some rejection by other AA's who found her too "oreo" so she sure didn't need any more rejection to build her character! She's a very fine young woman, indeed, and I'm happy and confident for her future.</p>

<p>Tarhunt, what a thought-provoking post (#33)!</p>

<p>One could absolutely make a meaningful casting of Fiddler with AA's for the family and villagers, but I think you'd then want to continue the symbolism by maintaining all the Russian Cossack villagers as Caucasians. A pogrom just isn't a pogrom otherwise. </p>

<p>I guess that was my original point about "Fiddler" being the most internationally cast musical of all. Just as the movie "My BIg Fat Greek Wedding" discovered that everyone identified their family dynamics in it, even if they weren't Greek, there are ethnicities all over the globe that see the themes of Fiddler as being absolutely recognizable. Of course the family themes resonate, so that Tevye or any proud/bewildered Dad from any ethncity could sing "Tradition!" with edge because his daughter wanted to defy the old family customs. Some parts are very specifically Jewish, such as all the Sabbath scenes. Politically, the ransacking of the eldest daughter's wedding was both specific against Russian Jews then (pogroms) but has sadly been repeated in similar forms wherever one group oppresses another. The most important dynamic there is not whether the men are wearing black hats and earlocks, but that their joyful, traditional celebration is overturned by the marauding Cossacks. Sadly, there are parallels for that throughout the world. If you made the family and villagers all AA, would you put robe the Cossacks as Klansmen? I'm getting shivers here...Well, if you did it, I'd buy a ticket!
Shylock is perhaps different. There I think the very specific story of AntiSemitism, as manifested in Renaissance (?) Europe, is its own strong character reference in the play, built into the language and history. Shylock's situation is less readily universalized, I believe, than Fiddler. If he weren't Jewish, then I'm not sure what he should be, in order to preserve the strength of that story. (To me, it'd be like making Othello anything but black, in other words.) BTW, I'm Jewish so I hope that informs the above discussion that I'm simply exploring all this as a fascinating rubik's cube.</p>