<p>Wally, I don't think you can <em>prove</em> your assertion that DePaul loses out on the most talented or some of the most talented kids because of its cut policy. You know one person who was accepted at many top programs but did not apply, presumably b/c of the cuts. But I think it would be fallacious for you to extrapolate the behavior of a lot of people from one. If DePaul were not doing something right -- and really, really right, at that -- it would not have the great reputation it has. I agree with 5Pants/Sue: if you don't like the system at a school, don't apply.</p>
<p>I wasn't satisfied with ckp's answer and will ask two questions again. This time I will rephrase them again and they are for TheTheaterSchool only:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>How many students are waitlisted for DePaul's BFA Acting program each year? Is it the same every year? If not, how many were waitlisted in each of the years 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006?</p></li>
<li><p>How many students came off the waitlist in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 and decided to attend DePaul.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>CKP;
[quote]
Wallyworld, how on earth would you know that this is true? Do you know any of us? NO. So please stop posting things that aren't true over and over again. Yes, lots of people would chose these schools, but many don't. That is a fact. Living breathing people that I do know have. Fact. But it doesn't and shouldn't matter to you if you are not interested in this school
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How on earth would you not know its true? Yes, I know a few of you. </p>
<p>
[quote]
deal with it, and deal with the fact that it is a top-notch program that people are willing to go out on a limb and take a chance. Even if they are only there for a year, they still have a year of amazing training. Not everyone feels they need a degree.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...... it is not a top notch program for this very fact which is why I spend my time on the subject. It is a well above average program for sure and the Goodmans reputation speaks for itself but this is a major issue ....</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do hope your daughter does well next year, but with the way you go on about her, you may be in for a reality check,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don’t mean it so don’t say it. She will be fine, trust me. </p>
<p>Attagirl;</p>
<p>
[quote]
WallyWorld, it just seems to me that you are unnecessarily angry about this topic. I just wanted to show that there are very talented and very happy individuals who attend this program, though obviously it might not be the program for everyone. Best of luck to your daughter, though, wherever she finds to be her best college fit.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not at all angry, just seem to have fallen into pointing out the elepahant in your living room. Parents and students are very much concerned about this issue. I do believe in your senserity now and that you are not a spokesperson for the school.</p>
<p>TheTheaterSchool;</p>
<p>Top cross apps misses the point entirely. Reaches, fits and safeties.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To say that every student who is admitted to us and one of these other programs NEVER comes to DePaul is the real fallacy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You need to re-read my post. I said it is not frequent and you highlighted the word NEVER… words mean things. </p>
<p>
[quote]
These schools are similar in nature to our program
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Other than their cut policy and that it causes some students and parents to avoid you. Hence the resonses for these words.</p>
<p>So, If we are really going to get down to brass tacks I would like the answer to some questions. The best questions asked are from Actressforsho above. I have never met her or even had a conversation with her but my sources tell me she is uber talented. So lets hear it. </p>
<p>Afterward I would like the answer to my questions above that have been obviously ignored.</p>
<p>1) The need for an evaluation system and “cutting your losses” is obvious. Yet of the top conservatories you seem to be in the minority of having such an extreme cut system. Why is that good for your students? Why is that good for your school? Why is it good for the world of theater?</p>
<p>2) I know a few “best of the best” stage actors and some “best of the best” students who claim they would not apply or attend a program with such a “blood on the floor” cut system. Have you given consideration to the fact that such a system would reduce the quality of your applicants? I well could be missing the point and would welcome enlightenment.</p>
<p>Gosh, I hate to see this discussion degenerate into accusations that one contributor or another is, um, "pimping" his or her children, etc. That is hurtful and wrong and just not true in any way, shape or form. I also urge us all not to be too quick to point out grammatical and spelling mistakes and misuse of the language unless we are completely sure that we are error-free. I don't think any of us can claim perfect copy, every time. I sure cannot, though I do try! :)
Please, do not flame me. I am merely playing Benvolio here. It saddens me when what could be a good, lively and fair discussion goes down the muddy path to insults. Let's not do it, folks. There is too much to be lost; this list is very valuable to many of us who are here to learn and to help our children gather information.
In peace,
Lisa</p>
<p>The school rep has not answered actressforsho's very reasonable questions. Why? Actorsdad, WallyWorld - and I - have said that our kids chose not or will choose not to apply to DePaul because the school cuts half the first year students as a matter of course. My own kid applied to three of the schools the rep says are cross apps, was accepted at two (waitlisted at the third), and is now attending one. DePaul was not considered ONLY because of the 52 into 26 policy. Of course he has enough of an ego to believe he would be among the 26 - but he just balked at the idea of such a program. So, sure, applications are up everywhere - and there's a lot of talent around - but I wish the rep would directly answer the questions posed by actressfosure and WallyWorld. Lots of people are interested in the answers to those questions - which I thought the rep came on board to address. All the loyalty to the program is really terrific,but this isn't an attack calling for such defensiveness. If people didn't think DePaul had so much to offer, no one would care about the answers to the questions. It's just frustrating that there's someone who could answer the questions but doesn't seem to want to. So, I conclude that there is no educational reason for the cut policy, but it is just entrenched and perhaps having that many freshman pay tuition is necessary to keep the program going. Then half are sacrificed so that the rest can get sufficient individualized training.</p>
<p>Fast Decision Time Help!</p>
<p>The horse is now dead. That a high integrity seasoned professional from another institution needs to step in to help stem the hemorrhage is enough already. She is very talented actress and auditioning for professional work but got cut. What a mess. This is the end result that has made many of us press the question. Peoples lives are in question, not just dollars. </p>
<p>Doctorjohn;</p>
<p>Lets say that a talented actor had 10 schools on their apply list. Yet they had one school that they really where inspired to attend well beyond the others. And let say its not like Julliard but a top notch program none-the-less.</p>
<p>1) Should a student convey their preference to a school?
2) What is the most tactful and effective way of doing so?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>WallyWorld:</p>
<p>Interesting questions. We had a long discussion about this last year, and I'm about to bump the thread so that we can continue it there instead of here.</p>
<p>Do not use that thread to make your point, you don't know it all like you think you do, she would NEVER regret coming to DePaul and like I posted everything is working out great.</p>
<p>ckp: </p>
<p>I should have been clearer. My comment about "interesting questions" had only to do with WallyWorld's queries about students sharing their admission preferences with college representatives. I thought the discussion would be much more appropriate on the old "How much should you tell the colleges?" thread instead of on this one devoted to your school.</p>
<p>I'm glad to hear things are working out for your friend. She's lucky to have a friend like you.</p>
<p>DoctorJohn, thank you for redirecting the discussion regarding showing interest in a school or stating one's preferences to a college to another thread because that topic really doesn't belong on the DePaul thread and so it is good you bumped up last year's discussion on that topic. </p>
<p>I think ckp was responding just now to the OTHER part of Wally's post about her friend who was cut at DePaul. The posts are getting tangled up!</p>
<p>Sorry drjohn, that definatly wasn't meant for you post, you have been an amazing help to me and everyone on this thread, and I can't thank you enough!</p>
<p>I've been on CC for a while but rarely post, but I felt compelled to weigh in on the DePaul issue. My son is an upperclassman there, having survived the cut, so WallyWorld I feel like I might have a little more insight in this than those of you who are seeing it from the outside. Lots of pros and cons have been discussed, some I agree with, some I don't, but one thing I don't think I've seen addressed is that by taking in 56 or so freshman DePaul allows those "extra" students to prove themselves over many months rather than a five minute audition. For some reason this makes me think of an analogy that may or may not make sense to anyone else - set the scene: the small boy who has been riding the little league bench all year pleads "just let me play coach, just give me a chance" and of course in movie-world he goes on to score the winning run - which he would not have been able to do if not first given the opportunity to at least try. So if DePaul accepts 56 students and then cuts down to 24 or whatever the number, at least they gave those students that they would not have accepted if they only originally accepted 22 a chance to "play and score". My son saw it as nothing but a positive experience - sure he was a little stressed about it, but really not that much at all - he was too busy to think that much about it. And the ones he knew that got cut were disappointed but not crushed - and really, if you are going to be crushed by rejection, this is not the field for you. Judging acting is so subjective and based on so many things, that every actor is going to be rejected many times in their career for all kinds of reasons. Some of the best actors in the world have not gotten some of the parts they wanted, nor were they accepted to the schools they wanted, but they shrugged their shoulders and went on to the next audition or part. The students and parents and faculty who have posted here who have actual first-hand knowledge of the system at DePaul are not critical of it - it seems to be those who really have no experience with it that are critical of it, which doesn't make sense. It can be a case of glass half-empty or glass half-full - at least by accepting more students than they intend to graduate they are giving more students a chance to prove themselves rather than dismissing them without a chance. And yes, Wally World, my son was actually accepted to many of what this thread considers the top conservatories and programs, this was not his only choice by any means. He was even given a full ride at one school and yet chose DePaul. (to be honest, though, the one school he was not accepted at was Julliard and he probalby would have hosen it over DePaul had we been able to swing it financially) So it wasn't that he didn't have many other opportunities - he liked Chicago, liked the program at Depaul, accepted the risks with eyes wide open, and proceeded to try his hardest and do his best. In his case he made the cut - but if he had not he would have been okay and gone to plan B, like any actor truly committed to the craft would do. And one other thing that I would caution you about, in a truly well-intentioned way - please do not handicap your daughter (who no doubt is very talented) by being too much of a stage-dad or trying to control her audition and/or college experience - nothing but nothing (and I think the prof's on this site would agree) can turn a school or a professor off a student quicker than an overbearing, interfering parent, no matter how well-intentioned he or she may be. When they reach the age where they are deciding on colleges, be supportive of course, but LET GO - it's their experience and their life (even though it may be our money!). That may sound harsh, but I urge you to take a step back and let your daughter be the one to make the decisions and accept the consequences and rewards of those decisions. I have absolutely no doubt that you are your daughter's biggest supportor and biggest fan and that you would never intentionally do anything to hinder her chance at success - I just know after having put four thru college and gone thru many many orientation and parent sessions, that the one thing every single school and professor agrees on is that at this stage the parents need to back off. I really don't mean to sound overly critical, it's just a fact. Having said that, best of luck to you and your daughter.</p>
<p>Is there a similiar cut process for students in the directing program at DePaul or do cuts generally refer only to the performing students?</p>
<p>All students at The Theatre School are subject to an annual evaluation and an invitation to return by the faculty at the end of each academic year. The BFA acting program is the only program that has an automatic cut (from the freshman to sophomore year). The other ten undergraduate programs (including the Directing concentration of the BFA Theatre Arts major) and 3 graduate programs (including the MFA Directing major) have much smaller incoming capacities (from 2 to 12 students depending on major). The students admitted into these programs are admitted with an expectation they will complete all years and graduate, though a student who is evaluated as not sufficiently meeting the criteria of the annual evaluation (discipline, collaboration, professional potential and progress in the program) can be removed from the program by the faculty choosing not to invite that student to return.</p>
<p>Beginning in the sophomore year of all programs (including the acting program) students who seem to not be meeting the evaluation criteria are given a quarter probationary period (including an improvement plan) to bring their work back to the level that would ensure an invitation to return.</p>
<p>Welcome to these Boards! I am one of the people who was firmly against the policy- and still am- which is why my D will never apply to DePaul-but I very mch respect and admire your decision to join in the discussion and try to help us gain a better understanding of your school and it's decisions. I will enjoy following the thread...</p>