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That's just a euphemism applied to a party school for kids with high SAT scores. In many ways, it is the worst possible description because it implies that there is something positive or desireable about drinking heavily as the norm.
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Only if one assumes that the only way to "play hard" is to drink a lot, an assumption often made by couch-potatoes, eggheads, and Wechsler aficionados.</p>
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That's just a euphemism applied to a party school for kids with high SAT scores.
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I never said that these schools weren't party schools. There are certainly schools where kids "party" (or drink, by the conventional and colloquial meaning) a lot but also spend a significant amount of time working as well as schools were kids "party" and try to take easy classes and glide through their work. There are obviously a mix of students at all of these schools, as the thread mentioned by the OP shows, but generalizations can be made, and I have seen a pretty evident split between these two loose categories.</p>
<p>whoa :-p</p>
<p>i think the maturity of the kid matters more. and partying isn't necessarily bad.</p>
<p>By the way, here's a site where you can access the links to student newspapers at hundreds of colleges --- a few of the links are out of date, however: <a href="http://newslink.org/statcamp.html%5B/url%5D">http://newslink.org/statcamp.html</a></p>
<p>That's a great link, Carolyn!</p>
<p>How do you KNOW? Well, I dont suppose you can ever perfectly know whether a college is going to be an ideal fit -- academically or culturally -- until youre actually there. Doing due diligence for the social scene is like anything else visit, talk to CURRENT students, parents of ACTUAL students. Most importantly draw your own conclusions. What Ive found on this board is that many of the dont go to school X warnings come from parents of kids who chose other schools. This applies to drinking, drugging and alternative sexual activity. Students and parents of students who actually attend the so called party or druggy or sexually deviant schools usually give a much more balanced and less alarmist viewpoint. So listen impartially and dont get swept away by stereo-types and second and third hand impressions.</p>
<p>One way to look at it is for your daughter to visualize what she sees herself doing when shes not studying, e.g., sports, theater, campus government, just hanging out with friends. Is there a critical mass on campus doing what she likes to do?</p>
<p>Phrases like partying and play hard/work hard have become hackneyed and misleading. For many at schools that have active social scenes, partying means just that: getting together with friends, dancing, socializing not necessarily drinking yourself blotto. Same thing for play hard back to what I said about down time: What you do to play can be a whole host of wholesome energetic non-alcoholic non-drug non-sex related activities.</p>
<p>Wellesley must've changed these past years. Those gals used to really be able to knock 'em down!</p>
<p>Well said, Momrath.</p>
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Phrases like partying and play hard/work hard have become hackneyed and misleading.
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<p>Hackneyed, yes. Misleading, no. These phrases have VERY specific meanings in college lingo. When students from a school describe their school as "work hard, play hard" or "we like to party", it means one thing: a high percentage of heavy drinking on campus. You can take it to the bank.</p>
<p>Of course, this doesn't mean that every student at the school is a hard core boozer or parties four nights a week. That obvious from the fact that all of our kids are little angels!</p>
<p>But, the question was about ways to tell if a school has above average rates of drinking overall. The use of these hackneyed phrases in guidebooks or student descriptions are anything but misleading in that regard.</p>
<p>Every school can be a party school - you don't need much to do it - just a bunch of people and whatever else you choose. That being said, many of the ''party schools'' listed in PR are great institutions and shouldn't be discarded by this publication which just serves to be a pathetic money-maker for the company.</p>
<p>"Phrases like partying and play hard/work hard have become hackneyed and misleading."</p>
<p>Don't think it's misleading in the least. If you examine available data on schools (often put out by the schools themselves) on those you see so described, you inevitably find above average rates (and sometimes way above average) of "binge", "blotto", or "destructive" drinking. Frankly, I don't know of a single exception. If it quacks like a duck, you can count on it being a duck.</p>
<p>And, in most cases, the students like it that way. Many students choose such schools BECAUSE of their "work hard/play hard" reputation. As long as there is "truth in advertising", and students know what they are getting into, I don't see a problem.</p>
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Wellesley must've changed these past years. Those gals used to really be able to knock 'em down!
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<p>I'm sure there are still women at Wellesley who drink heavily.</p>
<p>References to "party schools" and "non-party" schools do not imply that the entire student body is ubiquitous. There are boozers at non-party schools and teetotalers at party schools. The differences between a party-school and a non-party school refer to the percentages of heavy drinkers and the degree to which heavy drinking is the dominant social culture. The reason that it is worth considering is that a non-drinker or moderate drinker can be marginalized at a heavy drinking school.</p>
<p>Based on the fact that Wellesley is a woman's college and has a huge percentage of Asian-American students, I would be shocked if it were anywhere near the national average for percentage of binge drinkers. I would expect it to fall at the low end of the scale on the surveys of heavy drinking.</p>
<p>In fact, we hear that - on this forum - all the time. Currently, here's one from what is reputed to be one of the academically finest colleges in the country:</p>
<p>"and Ive been to several parties. Most of them just dont really make me comfortable. I have several friends that I do stuff with, but I cant seem to form a core group of friends like I did so easily in high school. Maybe I just havent given it enough time? Maybe I have a skewed view I dont know. My dorm is infamous for being a party dorm, which I think colors my opinions. Most of the people on my hall are drinkers and heavy partiers, so it hasnt been easy finding people that I get along with. I realize that such heavy drinking occurs mostly among freshmen, so it doesnt bother me unduly. Im not against drinking, but I wish some of my classmates and hallmates would learn the concept of moderation."</p>
<p>The reality is that this school has a "work hard/play hard" reputation. It's a very fine school. And the student feels marginalized. I expect he will be able to find a niche eventually in which he feels comfortable. But had he chosen differently, he wouldn't have to.</p>
<p>The saddest part of the story is the student being repeatedly scorned as a "nerd" when he is seen...gasp...reading a book.</p>
<p>I am not so sure I believe that if this student had chosen differently, he would be having an easier time. My D has always been very independent and has been to summer camps and summer programs at several colleges. She was lucky enough to gain admission to a program that fits her very well. Even so we hear lots of complaints. Sometimes it is the food, sometimes the noise in the dorms, sometimes difficulty with a teacher or the dorm mates and sometimes just boredom. At other times she is having a great time and nothing could be better. One time we hear she has no close friends and nothing to do on the weekends. She was even thinking of transferring. The next day she was out all day with 4 really close friends, she is planning to a visit with one over Easter break and 3 times different guys asked her out to dinner but she had other things to do and oh by the way she meet the nicest guy in one of her classes and they got cheap tickets to the art museum near campus. College freshman still meet the qualifications to be teenagers.</p>
<p>RE Minis quote in Post #33 is from a Duke firstyear who is having adjustment difficulties. His/her plaint (in the separate thread titled I need guidance ) is a case in point: Along with noting this students extreme comments the informed consumer should also factor in comments from other Duke students and parents who give their very different perspective. </p>
<p>By extreme I refer to the students statement that Duke students seldom read or take books out of the library and that they routinely ridicule those who do. There may be a valid reason that the OP has this impression, but is it widespread and endemic? Is it a reason to X Duke from your short list?</p>
<p>To me, these kinds of comments beg a credibility screener. For example: "Ive been called a nerd for reading more times than I care to remember Just where is this reading being done? In the shower, at a football game, in the common room when everyone else is trying to socialize? It just doesnt ring true that Duke kids are on an anti-book witch hunt.</p>
<p>I dont know this student. I dont know what other schools s/he considered or what it was that drew him/her to Duke. It may play out that s/he adjusts and finds her niche at Duke or s/he may end up transferring to another school. </p>
<p>I dont mean to pick on this kid. S/He sounds like s/hes having a tough time of it and I dont wish that on any teenager. But at the same time I would not use him/her as a cautionary example of why Duke (or any other college) with a so-called party reputation is a bad choice for a student with serious intellectual and academic objectives. </p>
<p>At the end of the day Duke (or any other school) isnt appropriate for all students. Dukes atmosphere IS different from many other schools and it is not a secret that Duke kids are outgoing, sociable and active. Its also no secret that its a medium sized school with a rabid :) sports culture. It takes a while to form a core of close friendships at any college and introverted kids who end up at larger universities, especially ones where fraternities and sororities are the major social vehicle, can have a hard time of it. (I know, I went to one.)</p>
<p>Colleges do have individual personalities and I do not argue that its important to find a good fit. My argument is that the perceived negative impact of anti-social behavior from a whole range of stereotypes boorish drinkers / meatball athletes / dazed druggees / aggressive lesbians / excessively PC activists / academically obsessed hermits / anti-intellectual grade grubbers -- is often blown way out of proportion. The stereotypes are further reinforced by hearsay and second and third-hand opinions until like a giant game of telephone, everyone KNOWS Duke kids dont read because they are too drunk to focus.</p>
<p>In answer to the OPs question: You cant KNOW but you dont have to hope for the best. You can research, evaluate, visit and form your own opinions.</p>
<p>Good post momrath.</p>
<p>What I continuously find interesting is that the amazing intelligent top of the class academic students who are accepted at a school like Duke immediately turn in to "boorish drinkers / meatball athletes /...../ anti-intellectual grade grubbers -- " after they enroll. :) :) :)</p>
<p>I went to St. Olaf and it wasn't stone cold sober. The drinking is a bit tamped down in the dorms, that's all. No major blowouts, on campus, that is.</p>
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<p>Only if one assumes that the only way to "play hard" is to drink a lot, an assumption often made by couch-potatoes, eggheads, and Wechsler aficionados.</p>
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<p>I find that it's gnerally heavy drinkers who make this assumption.</p>
<p>Well, we may be on the list of Stone Cold Sober Schools, but there's plenty of drinking here. The administration has decided, in fact, that we have an "alcohol problem" and is cracking down on the drinking scene. These attempts, though, have simply pushed the drinking into private rooms and made pre-gaming more widespread. The difference between Wellesley and some other schools is that it's very easy to meet students who don't drink at all.</p>
<p>We don't have the parties like a lot of schools have, but one look at our recycling bins will tell you we're not stone cold sober- just that the administration wants us to look like it. But as Interesteddad pointed out, without male students and with many students coming from different cultural backgrounds, it's not a surprise that we're near the bottom in terms of problems. The major complaint around here is that the administration cares more for their reputation than for student safety, which is never a good thing to have happen.</p>