well, what do you think.....

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>i just finished my community college, and have about a 3.1 GPA overall (around there i think..)</p>

<p>I will be attending a UC most likely, this fall (05).</p>

<p>so, my main concern is......</p>

<p>if I achieve an astoundingly high GPA at my UC (3.8 or 3.9 lets say), can that be good enough to get into, say, UCLA law? (my 1st choice).</p>

<p>now, the law schools are going to "combine" my community college cumulative GPA with my UC cumulative GPA. right?</p>

<p>so in this case, a 3.1 JC gpa, and a 3.9 UC gpa, would this be good enough for a well-known law school? i heard that the :</p>

<p>"higher GPA a student receives at the University, the less important the community college GPA will be, or the less impact it will have on being admitted"</p>

<p>and what LSAT would i need in order to be very likely to get in.</p>

<p>much thanks.</p>

2

<p>I don't want to be harsh, but I have to question your assumption of a really high UC GPA. You may want to make back-up plans.</p>

3

<p>why would you say that? and you're not being "harsh"....</p>

<p>if you want worse, then get this:</p>

<p>in high school i had a cumulative 2.0 GPA.</p>

<p>at my JC i made it a 3.1.</p>

<p>so it is indeed possible to obtain that 3.8 or so.</p>

<p>but could someone answer my original question here,</p>

<p>for it was delayed...</p>

4

<p>Your GPAs will be combined for the LSDAS report.</p>

<p>Law schools, however, will look for an upward trend and look for evidence that you can succeed at higher levels. Success at a good college will demonstrate that you can be successful at law school. </p>

<p>Random advice: when you apply to law school, note the upward trend. Mention in an addendum that you are more mature now and that your grades are getting better while you take more challenging courses. A short paragraph will do it.</p>

5

<p>Eric's just tellilng you the truth. You've got the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of getting into UCLA.</p>

<p>As Aries has told you, your CC average will be included. To see the data for UCLA, scroll down this list:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bcgsearch.com/BCGbook_2003_blue.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bcgsearch.com/BCGbook_2003_blue.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>'til you hit UCLA. </p>

<p>Please understand that I would be absolutely delighted if you got into UCLA...very, very, very,very squared to infinity plus...happy.. if you did. But the chances of going from a 3.1 at a CC to a 3.8 at UCLA are certainly less than 50/50. Even if you do...your cumulative gpa would put you, at best, in the middle of the pack in terms of gpa among accepted applicants. </p>

<p>Again, please understand that I SINCERELY hope you pull this off--just backing up Eric for telling you the truth...it's unlikely.</p>

6

<p>"Again, please understand that I SINCERELY hope you pull this off--"</p>

<p>OK, </p>

<p>I will attend a certain UC (not LA), and hope to get my 3.8 there.</p>

<p>SO, having said that, if I in fact DO obtain that 3.8 cumulative at my UC (lets just say YES, ok?), then won't the law schools look at my JC gpa less and less, and admit me more based on my UC gpa.</p>

7

<p>I'm sure they'll look at your JC gpa less, but the combined UGPA will still have to pass through the numbers filter. After that they may differentiate.</p>

8

<p>If that is what you really want to do, you'll be best off if you don't apply at age 22 and if you continue attending school (masters or night courses) after graduation. If you are 25, and the last four years of your courses result in a 3.7 GPA, you look good - because the 3.1 is really not indicative of the type of student you will be in law school. </p>

<p>More unsolicitied advice: figure out what has been preventing you from really succeeding up to this point and rectify that before you continue with more schooling. Sometimes, the best thing for you is to take time off from academia to mature and analyze your weak points, instead of plunging in for more torture.</p>

9

<p>"If that is what you really want to do, you'll be best off if you don't apply at age 22 and if you continue attending school (masters or night courses) after graduation. If you are 25, and the last four years of your courses result in a 3.7 GPA, you look good - because the 3.1 is really not indicative of the type of student you will be in law school. "</p>

<p>i'm 20 right now. went straight to JC right after senior year. did the general 2 year comm. college, then gonna transfer to 4 year univ.</p>

<p>SO, you're saying i should do some graduate school stuff, then do law school?</p>

<p>i most prob. would like to do law school right after my undergrad</p>

<p>or is that not a good idea</p>

<p>advice, advice,</p>

<p>gracias.</p>

10

<p>ariesathena - Aren't graduate courses not counted in the UGPA?</p>

11

<p>they're not. and they're not considered as highly as UGPA. To a stretch i'd even say that they are weighed in the same category as ECs. Grad school kids never fail and all get at least B's so the grade is really meaningless.</p>

12

<p>Pull up Jamimom's posts. </p>

<p>First of all, a master's degree is, from everything I've read, considered to be pretty impressive - certainly more so than extra-curricular activities. Secondly, while it is NOT counted to the UGPA, it is certainly looked at. If you can get through a good master's programme, it shows that you are capable of doing post-graduate work. That should be obvious.</p>

13

<p>First, what we think really doesn't matter. Get the best grades you can and study hard and get the highest LSAT you can. Then apply and see how things work out.</p>

<p>That said...
If you try to go directly to law school from UG, you will be applying with at most 7 semesters of grades. Assuming you get a 3.9 each of the next three semesters and that each semester of the 7 semesters is weighted equally--which may not be a valid assumption--you would have a cumulative gpa at just about the 25th percentile for the class which entered UCLA in the fall of 2002 when the lower end of the 25/75 range was 3.52. Obviously, I can't tell you what it will be when you actually apply; the 2002 #s are at least a reasonable approximation. If anything, the gpa range will probably move up a bit. Get a 3.8 for three semesters and if my math is right, you will be below the 25th percentile in terms of cumulative gpa. (BTW, the upper end of the 75th percentile was 3.8 for the class entering in 2002. In other words, over a quarter of the class entering UCLA in 2002 had an undergrad gpa of 3.8 or better.) </p>

<p>Now, obviously, a quarter of the class did have a gpa below 3.52 and there may be other factors which make you a good candidate which we are unaware of. </p>

<p>I disagree with Aries about the benefit of getting a master's degree. (Among other things, master's are rarely funded and unless you are very, very wealthy, you'd have to borrow more money...which doesn't seem like a good idea to me.) As Eric's notes, it won't change the OP's LSDAS gpa. However, if the OP really can pull off a high gpa, I'd take a year off between college and law school so that the LSDAS gpa would include 4 semesters of your new high gpa, rather than just 3. It could make a difference. </p>

<p>I'd suggest that you take at least one or two years off between college and law school. Not only does this potentially raise your LSDAS gpa, but I think work experience--especially something along the lines of Teach For America or other worthwhile community service--would do more to improve your odds of admission that getting a master's degree you had to pay for. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that if you get a very high LSAT, it would help a LOT. </p>

<p>I am a bit cynical that someone who has a 3.1 at a community college is going to be able to pull off 4 semesters with a 3.8+, but again, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. Do the best you can. The higher your gpa and LSAT, the more options you will have.</p>

14

<p>"First, what we think really doesn't matter. Get the best grades you can and study hard and get the highest LSAT you can. Then apply and see how things work out." ~Jonri</p>

<p>baller4lyfe, </p>

<p>That is the best advice given here thus far. Honestly, stop worrying about your chances. Do the best you can, and then see what happens. There may be a myriad of reasons you got a 3.1, but I won't go there. All I can say is that if you think you can get a 3.9, by all means, go ahead and get it. And of course, do your best on the LSAT. After all of that, even if your numbers don't match the school's, apply to UCLA -if you have the financial means, of course. Whereas it may be unlikely you get in, if it's your dream school, well, go for it! If they say no, try a different LS, and then attempt to transfer as a 2L -but you better bust your little academic butt during your 1L. I would not get a graduate degree unless I really wanted one, and had an idea as to what I'll be using it for. It'll cost you money and time, instead, as I said before, try a lesser law school and attempt to transfer. Remember though, there are no guarantees.</p>

<p>Also, two years of meaningful employment may help your chances -plus, ease the academic burden of LS. Or, you can try the PeaceCorp ;)</p>

<p>Best of Luck:D</p>

<p>wf</p>

15

<p>"Also, two years of meaningful employment may help your chances -plus, ease the academic burden of LS. Or, you can try the PeaceCorp "</p>

<p>hey,</p>

<p>thanks a LOT for this info so far..</p>

<p>i really do not wish to work after my undergrad. 2 years off to go to work? i really would rather go to school instead.</p>

<p>BUT, as you earlier said, that is very true. Just aiming at "doing the absolute best - both for LSAT and GPA" could very well mean a whole new unexpected thing for me.</p>

<p>I get what you're trying to say.</p>

<p>so having said that, I'll just focus on THAT and that only.</p>

16

<p>I'm coming from the perspective of an engineer - so I assumed that all master's were funded (or almost all) - but apparently not. (Note that engin. companies will also reimburse for master's; not sure if other companies do the same.) Also, the Bs and low As of engineering masters would increase most engineer's undergrad GPAs. I have heard that law school admissions deans look very favourably upon people with that degree, but Jonri might have heard differently.</p>

<p>Jamimom did write extensively about getting a low college GPA, then taking courses after graduation until about age 30, then getting accepted into a top 10 law school. Worked for her, but that's a different era and things might have changed.</p>

17

<p>They'll look favorably upon that kind of degree, it is just not a deciding factor. Nonetheless, it is a clear indicator of academic potential. I don't think Jonri disagrees with that fact. </p>

<p>And Master's are, for the most part, not funded...and very expensive. PhDs on the other hand, are. However, even PhDs are not a guarantee to get into a top 10 ls -although they may be looked at 'favourably.'</p>

<p>P.S. Engineers are hot ;)</p>

18

<p>You can sometimes do a teaching assistant thing for the master's.</p>

<p>In what section of the universe are engineers hot?</p>

19

<p>LOL :D</p>

<p>And yes, the TA is an option, sometimes. However, I do not know if the OP has any afinity for teaching.</p>

20

<p>My advice to the OP is to get the highest grades he can for the next two years, and for now forget about the CC transcript. When the time comes to apply for law school, you can see what you have and get advice as to what it may net. Who can say how it will work out.</p>

<p>I have known a number of adults who have gone back to professional, graduate and undergraduate schools with abysmal records in the past. Yes, it can be done. And some have gotten into some pretty prestigious schools. But these things are all on a case by case basis. I have a 50+ year old friend who is now in medical school, and her UG transcript was not so hot, and not pre med. I know many adults who ended up in law school after a hiatus from academics. </p>

<p>In my case, however, I don't think it was the just the courses, which, by the way, were NOT graduate level courses after my UG degree, that made a difference. I was working in a very specific, narrow field of law, working with a number of attornies and was reasonably successful in my job. That, I am sure, got my app, pulled for closer examination, and the gpa from my UG school was not given as heavy weight at it would have been under ordinary circumstances. I believe our Sybbie on these boards,has been accepted to NYU for a doctoral program, and again she had to provide all kinds of testimonial and activities to offset some blotches in some her past. I don't think just taking courses is going to offset a problem, but it can give you a good start in offsetting past trancripts that are less than stellar.</p>