<p>Alexra4, academic superiority in terms of institutions of this caliber is well ... academic.
Suppose you're comparing two swimming pools one of which is a 12 lane Olympic pool and the other is a 10 lane Olympic pool. Now picture yourself trying to drink all of the water in either pool. One could argue that the 12 lane pool is superior, but both are way beyond your capacity to drink all of the water. At this point other things factor more in decision making: Do you want palm trees or an indoor pool? What color are the tiles?
The distance you swim in a race is not affected. In picking the pool you like other factors are more imiportant.
Now, as a Barnard parent who tried to talk at least his first child into going to Wellesley, I feel I should add some of the things I liked about Wellesley: 3000 acre campus; beautiful grounds; their own lake. My older D is an introvert so I thought this would be ideal. Her cousin goes to MIT. Did I mention the beautiful grounds?<br>
My D who has all of the emotionality of a Vulcan on Star Trek made her decision based on her "gut" feelings.
Picture yourself at one of the campuses. Pretend you've made up your mind. Then see how you feel and what you imagine. Your parents can't go wrong.</p>
<p>i think you should probably post this on the wellesley board as well. you're posting this in a barnard thread, there is going to be some tendency to be biased.</p>
<p>sorry i was wrong, you guys are right.</p>
<p>collegeboard: Percent applicants admitted: 36%
(wellesley)</p>
<p>but i realize these stats are outdated. It says barnards admittance rate is 28% but it dropped to somewhere around 22% this year.</p>
<p>Well, the stats tend to be from 2 years back by the time they are reflected in the common data set. But I think last year the admit rate for Barnard was around 28% -- and I hadn't seen a report from this year -- the 22% sounds like it may be from RD figures rather than overall. (The 25-28% includes the ED admits as well, which pulls up the average). </p>
<p>In any case, I don't think it makes much sense to focus on the admit rate - that's would be playing the same game as the arrogant few at Columbia who are so disdainful of Barnard because it is "easy" to get into -- Barnard's urban location & affiliation with Columbia by itself probably attracts a lot of applicants who would not otherwise apply to a woman's college or a small LAC, whereas Wellesley's applicant pool is probably a little more narrowly drawn. But the admission rates have very little to do with academic quality; U of Chicago also admits about 36% or more, and I don't think anyone would question their academics.</p>
<p>The only reason I included the "argument" in favor of Barnard in my post above is in case Alexra is trying to convince her parents to allow her to choose Barnard -- I am thinking maybe the parents are stuck on US News rankings and just don't understand how the US News formula undercuts Barnard by not considering the shared resources with Columbia. </p>
<p>Otherwise I really do think that academically there is not much difference unless you start breaking it down to comparing one department or program vs. another; but that the "fit" part might be very different. (My d. had cancelled plans to visit Wellesley and interview because of rain when she was in Boston to visit colleges; Mardad's description of the 3000 acre campus and the lake was enough for me to know that she made the right decision, as she had already knocked one college off her list for having "too many trees" and she was horrified when she saw pictures of all the fields and open space at Mt. Holyoke. She definitely is a city girl, and she was quite concerned about the distance she might have to walk to class in rain or snow. Loved the underground tunnels at Barnard!)</p>
<p>Just to clear something up--you can't take classes at Harvard as a Wellesley student, right?</p>
<p>I'm daring to venture over from the Wellesley board.</p>
<p>Both Wellesley and Barnard are great schools. Since I've never attended Barnard (or Wellesley, for that matter), I can only answer to why I chose to apply early to Wellesley instead of Barnard. I actually went into the college process thinking I'd go to Barnard. I LOVE New York City, and have tons of family and friends there.</p>
<p>While it's a great school for some people, the more I saw of it, the more I realized it wasn't right for me. From what I've heard from my Barnard friends, I don't get the sense there is as much of a sense of community as is found at Wellesley. While I'm sure Columbia offers a ton of resources, if I was looking for a large university, I'd have applied actually to Columbia or to another similar school. A woman from Barnard came in to my school to talk, and most everything she said was something like "We're kind of a women's college, but we're not really because so many guys are nearby!" and "We're kind of a small liberal arts college, but not really because students take a lot of classes at Columbia!" I really liked that Wellesley embraced the fact that it is what it is -- a small, liberal arts women's college -- because I think that offers a lot. I also really like that Wellesley, unlike Barnard, is self-sustainable. While some students take classes at MIT, Wellesley has a fantastic math and science department of their own, and you could easily get through four great years never having to rely on another school.</p>
<p>I wouldn't read much into the acceptance rate. While Barnard's is lower, this could possibly be attributed to the fact that Wellesley's applicants are more self-selecting. In fact, Wellesley's average SAT for the class of 2011 is 30 points higher than Barnard's.</p>
<p>While it's clear I have a preference, I don't think Wellesley is right for everyone. Really look at both schools, and follow your gut. Good luck!</p>
<p>I don't understand how Wellesley's average GPA is that much higher than Barnard's. It's not like Barnard students have C averages....</p>
<p>I believe the poster said SAT. And I'm sure that's true. Barnard is not "all about the numbers." Actually I believe, but I may be wrong, that Wellesley's SAT is higher and Barnard's GPA is higher.</p>
<p>I think in terms of academic rigor, it's a wash.</p>
<p>Your parents don't understand that there is not a neat hierarchy of schools that can pinpoint which school is superior academically. The USNWR rankings take many other things into account.</p>
<p>as a wellesley student, you CAN take classes at harvard and mit. menagerie, you said it perfectly. those were my sentiments as well.</p>
<p>mythmom - She had originally said GPA, but edited it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
as a wellesley student, you CAN take classes at harvard and mit.
[/quote]
As a Barnard student, you WILL take classes at Columbia. </p>
<p>That's the difference -- if you don't want to take classes at Columbia, you would probably have to make a conscientious effort to avoid it, and it would be tricky. When Barnard students take classes at Columbia, they don't think about it or plan for it in particular - they simply choose from the catalog. Also, there is no issue about time or schedule -- it is easy to schedule classes back-to-back, with only 10 minutes between classes, because physically, the campuses really occupy only a few city blocks and are adjacent to one another.
[quote]
I also really like that Wellesley, unlike Barnard, is self-sustainable. While some students take classes at MIT, Wellesley has a fantastic math and science department of their own, and you could easily get through four great years never having to rely on another school.
[/quote]
Columbia is not "another" school - Barnard is part of Columbia University. I saw it written somewhere that Barnard is Columbia's "sister" college and that makes some sense. There are many, many courses that are defined as "interfaculty" meaning that they aren't officially tied to one school or another, though as a practical matter they are going to be localized on one campus -- but that same course may shift from one campus to another on different semesters. All courses in the catalogue with a "W" or a "V" fit that description - if you were to tell me that there was a class called History W3110 -- I would not be able to tell you from that info alone whether it was a Columbia or a Barnard course. </p>
<p>It works the other way around, though since Columbia is larger and has its core, it is not as dependent on Barnard. But there are plenty of Columbia majors and that rely in part or on whole on courses offered at Barnard -- it just makes sense for the colleges to work cooperatively to maximize their offerings to their students. </p>
<p>Now it is fine for someone to decide that she really doesn't want the affiliated-with-Columbia experience, and to choose a different college, but the concept that Barnard is not "self-sustaining" is silly. Columbia isn't going to go away, and there is no fence between the 2 colleges. </p>
<p>I can understand why someone might want the more insular arrangement of a traditional LAC -- but I just am trying to get across that things are intermixed. Barnard women are attracted to the idea of having the "best of both" -- if that isn't your thing, fine -- but it's not a matter of being uncomfortable or unsure of the situation.</p>
<p>Data point: Actually more Columbia students sit in Barnard courses than the other way around. So, we could say that Columbia isn't independent either, but that would be a silly way to look at it.</p>
<p>Wellesley is a bucolic campus steeped in an almost finishing girl atmosphere that now has some of the most pre-professional of the seven sisters. It is beautiful, challenging, rigorous, wonderful.</p>
<p>Barnard is a serene enclave in a gritty city on a postage sized campus. It's history is of a commuter school growing into a dorming college. It's academics are equally rigorous and its crowning glory is turning out writers, though half the female doctors used to hail from Barnard. It never had the "finishing school" atmosphere because it always trained women for careers, whereas Wellesley educated some of the most intelligent wives ever. (See Mona Lisa smile.</p>
<p>But that's all in the past.</p>
<p>Now both are wonderful liberal arts colleges. The choice is yours.</p>
<p>And for my part, as a Barnard mom, I do not want to compete with our Wellesley sisters. I just want to commend them on their really fine school.</p>
<p>I am sorry but I dont agree with the "it's easier to take courses in Mit for wellesley students than barnard students taking courses in columbia" wellesley and mit are still 45 minutes away. Only if you are willing to take a bus everyday to go for one class and then spend another 45 minutes to come back to campus to take the next one....I think one of the major reason for wellesley is more prestigious than barnard is because the alumn. the same thing happend to smith,too. Both Smith and Barnard are just as competitive as Wellesley.</p>
<p>"Columbia is not "another" school - Barnard is part of Columbia University. I saw it written somewhere that Barnard is Columbia's "sister" college and that makes some sense."
I totally agree with that!!!CU used to divide into Columbia college and barnard college and etc.College was for men, and barnard was for women.So I still think Barnard is part of CU</p>
<p>Technically, Barnard is not part of Columbia but an affiliate. However, it is treated as, and often referred to, as one of the undergraduate schools of Columbia. And some of our letterhead says "Barnard College OF Columbia University"</p>
<p>I had to make the same decision before getting an acceptance letter. I think I preferred Barnard because of easy transportation over anything else. I did hear from my friends at Columbia that sometimes Columbia students don’t like the idea of Barnard students or G.S students taking courses at Columbia and think they are superior. I think in the past,even 5 years ago, it was way easier to get accepted to Barnard. The academic vibe I got from Wellesley students was better than that of Barnard but this is personal. But overall I really liked the idea of being in a city with easy transportation. However, unfortunately, I got accepted to Wellesley while waitlisted to Barnard :(:(:(</p>
<p>by the way, how do you box quote someone else’s reply? can anyone help me?</p>
<p>By the way, sometimes people have a fantasy about New York City, but you should really visit New York since NYC is not for everyone. Some people love living in cities, but some people really hate the city after living there for a while. And wherever you choose, you will be spending four years there. I guess Wellesley is more “peaceful and green” but if you have a car or can drive a zip car you can get to many places. On the other hand, if you imagine yourself going crazy for not having quick, public transportation access to a city, Barnard will be better</p>