<p>Your daughter has gotten into 3 of the most prestigious schools in the country. I don't see why she is upset. A gap year would be a waste of time, imo. She should pick one and if she is not happy there after first semester send in transfer apps. I don't mean to sound rude because I know how disappointing it is to be rejected from top schools, but try to keep everything in perspective.</p>
<p>For some perspective on Middlebury waiting list:</p>
<p>Last year (from Common Data Set 2005-06):</p>
<h1>Offered spot on wait list: 950</h1>
<h1>Accepting spot on wait list: 579</h1>
<h1>Accepted from wait list: 38</h1>
<p>Two years ago (from CDS 2004-05):</p>
<p>1266
646
73</p>
<p>Thank you for a lot of excellent insight and information. I am sorry if I offended anyone with my comment about the schools another student at JHU mentioned. I loved the non-prophet advice about Wellesley, the link to the thread by students who were choosing it in spite of the single-sex dilemma, and the opinion about biochemistry and Middlebury. I also appreciate the opinions that the D is immature. She is the youngest person in her class and deals with the stress of a heavy academic course load . . . by studying, not thinking about college. Sigh, I guess that it why it is April 21 and she is so confused about what to do. Thanks again to all who responded.</p>
<p>I hope you will let us know what she decides. Good luck!</p>
<p>"She is the youngest person in her class"</p>
<p>Ah - that's certainly not making it any easier - kids change so fast at that age that even a few months make a big difference. Virtual warm cookies and soothing tea to the both of you!</p>
<p>Okay, not sure I get the connection between projectile vomiting and UChicago? But I think I remember a similar story from a couple of years ago on this board about a girl who got violently ill visiting the place and is there now and thriving. So, it may not be a bad omen, after all . . . I imagine that the problem with the biochem major is having to take certain required courses junior year in order to graduate in four years. </p>
<p>I just visited Wellesley on Wed. with my daughter (high school jr.), and I was very impressed. My daughter also is not sure about the "women's college" thing, but she was very impressed by the visit--it may have changed her mind. We spent about an hour in the science center talking to a physics prof, and otherwise just wandered around. Wellesley's campus is stunning, to say the least. Trees everywhere, and a lake. The ladies room on the 4th floor of the new student center has a picture window overlooking the lake--one of the nicest bathrooms I've seen anywhere! The science center is a very interesting building. They added a modern addition to an old building, and did it in a very thoughtful way. One of the walls of the new addition is the exterior of the old building, with the old entrance coming into the modern part--with a couple of lamp posts in the new part (where they used to be the outside of the old building)--it is very well done--you have to see it. So, one side of the building is the traditional, old science building, the other side is the new soaring modern addition. Some hate it, but I thought it was a very thoughtful combination of the old and new. </p>
<p>Comparing Wellesley to Chicago--Wellesley is very quiet, and has a secluded feeling. It is very beautiful. There are wooded areas right on campus, and a lake. Walking through town from the train, we walked past some upscale stores and than onto campus, through a wooded area with a child development center on one side. Later, we walked part way around the lake. We saw a swan on the lake--it swam right up to us! Chicago is urban, much bigger, more bustling, with "big city" energy. The lake near it is Lake Michigan. (A different sort of lake than the one at Wellesley!) Wellesley definitely has a "nurturing" flavor. There is no grad school at Wellesley. Wellesley is in a great area, though, minutes away from a train that goes to downtown Boston (we took it to the campus), in case you need to get to the city every once in awhile. So, it is a quiet campus but with the city of Boston very near by. And there is cross-registration with MIT (opening up lots of opportunities), and the new Olin Engineering school is just a couple of miles away. Putting aside the all women thing, basically you have a small nurturing LAC (but close to the city of Boston) compared to a large University in an urban area--two very different types of experiences.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Okay, not sure I get the connection between projectile vomiting and UChicago?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>hahahaha.</p>
<p>Sorry. </p>
<p>I would say gap year's a waste if the other acceptances are as good as your daughter's.</p>
<p>Let her revisit the schools and decide. And like others have said... transferring at a later time is an obvious possibility.</p>
<p>Tough one. I can see the problem. Admits are not matches, personality-wise.
Have to hold nose, pick the one that fits best & see how it goes, with transfer a distinct possiblity if it doesn't turn out to be a better than expected fit.</p>
<p>One thing: all 3 of these are very academically tough schools, particularly in something like biochem. I don't see much fun in the forecast.</p>
<p>Chicago has the core of required courses. wonder how those courses transfer to other schools: are they "normal" courses that can directly be given credit for at another college? OR are they idiosyncratic, don't really fit..</p>
<p>My d didn't apply to chicago because she didn't want the core.
Wellesley was the bridesmaid in her college choice. She finally decided the boy thing was a problem, and the kids didn't seem to her to be having much fun. Also, though she was completley unimpressed at the level of a math class she sat in on, overall the kids seemed to her to be working very hard and quite stressed. Which is not likely to be different at these other two schools.</p>
<p>THe Wellesley kids get themselves bused in to these MIT frat parties in order to hope to meet a guy, how degrading is that!! And there's a name for that bus...</p>
<p>Personally, if I were your daughter I would choose... Middlebury!</p>
<p>However, of the three available.. it's a complete tossup, whichever she prefers.</p>
<p>As far as I know, the UChicago core classes are easily transferrable--so far the core classes my son has had to take include a social science sequence and a humanities sequence. Pretty standard stuff. There are some choices in the core, so I guess you could choose something a little more off the beaten path for some of the classes, but that is up to you.</p>
<p>mstee is correct. Actually there is quite a bit of flexibility in the UChicago Core: <a href="http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/pdf_07/Curr.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/pdf_07/Curr.pdf</a></p>
<p>The Core requires
Humanities, Civilization Studies, and the Arts (6 quarters)
Natural and Mathematical Sciences (6 quarters)
Social Sciences (3 quarters)
(Plus there is a foreign language requirement.)</p>
<p>The Core comprises 15 of the 42 courses required for graduation. At Chicago each course = 1 credit. The number of hours a course meets may vary considerably from course to course, and there are times when the course meets that is not described in the schedule, but is required by the prof after the quarter begins. (My S has a course that meets about 4 hours a week and others that meet from 6 to 8 hours per week each. All worth 1 credit each).</p>
<p>But within each designated area there is significant choice, for example, from the catalog: </p>
<p>"Students take a total of six quarters in humanities and civilization studies, selecting one of the following three options. The letters in parentheses refer to the sections below. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>A three-quarter humanities sequence (A); a two-quarter civilization studies sequence (C); and one course in the dramatic, musical, and visual arts (B).</p></li>
<li><p>A three-quarter civilization studies sequence (C); a two-quarter humanities sequence (A); and one course in the dramatic, musical, and visual arts (B). </p></li>
<li><p>A two-quarter humanities sequence (A); a two-quarter civilization studies sequence (C); and two quarter courses in the dramatic, musical, and visual arts (B). </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Within the sequences there is more choice:</p>
<p>The Humanities Core Sequences:
HUMA 11000-11100-11200. Readings in World Literature
HUMA 11500-11600-11700. Philosophical Perspectives on the Humanities
HUMA 12000-12100-12200. Greek Thought and Literature
HUMA 12300-12400-12500. Human Being and Citizen
HUMA 13500-13600-13700. Introduction to the Humanities
HUMA 14000-14100-14200. Reading Cultures: Collection, Travel, Exchange
HUMA 16000-16100-16200. Media Aesthetics: Image, Sound, Text </p>
<p>One can easily transfer credit earned at Chicago elsewhere, it is not always so easy to transfer credit earned elsewhere to Chicago, however.</p>
<p>Son is going to JHU next year. Its an excellent school with a superb biochem dept. I know this is immodest to say but the incoming class will be happier for him being there. Unlike the charicature of a JHU student he is funny, outgoing and gets people involved in social activities. He sat in on a professor's creative writing class at last Tuesday's open house and it was a blast. Son's first choice was Brown but he's happy with going to JHU. (Notice there is no rhyme or reason with admissions - some kids actually were rejected at JHU but got into an IVY, go figure).</p>
<p>"I know this is immodest to say but the incoming class will be happier for him being there. Unlike the charicature of a JHU student he is funny, outgoing and gets people involved in social activities. "</p>
<p>He sounds wonderful, roberthhid - and I sure this will be most appreciated in the first week or two of classes. Not everyone survives the big leap out of the nest without a few bruises, and smiles and laughter are a wonderful remedy.</p>
<p>Thank you to everyone who posted or wrote me yesterday; I really appreciate all of the helpful advice. Monydad, I read through some of your previous postings and found them "right on the money." Adad and idad, thanks for your kind words and also clarifying the Chicago core. Ohio-mom and mommamia, thank you. mstee, roshke and to all the others who wrote about Wellesley: we have a much better feel for it now. We are reviewing all the advice, looking again at the course offerings and the important considerations for the D, and I will let all of you know what the decision is. In the meantime, I am all eyes if anyone has any further comments!!!</p>
<p>Late to the game, here, so this is really a postscript, as the OP has indicated they are deciding now based on the above collected opinions.</p>
<p>I have heard this a few times on CC: (Counselor made me do it). I have no idea how any adult gets away with that. Were I a Head of School, over such a GC, that GC would be fired for making such decisions having such a potentially altering affect over a young person's future. However, I wonder about the "made" part. Some students (including college) are more impressionable than others. I mean, I have a very, very strong willed younger D. I also have a very non-strong willed older D. There have been at least a couple of occasions, for each of them, where they have claimed that I "made" them do something that was a mere tentatively expressed suggestion -- or sometimes even an inquiry! ("Are you thinking of doing <strong><em>"? "Would you be interested in _</em></strong>_?") I swear that in none of those about 4 occasions did I "make" them, hound them, pressure them, or any such thing. In fact, if anything my questions were gentle attempts to help <em>them</em> decide about their own voiced dilemmas that they brought to me. Sometimes young people over-internalize or over-interpret, or are simply confused about their own true desires.</p>
<p>I understand that college counseling policies vary by school. Some h.schools insist on a particular # of safeties; others insist specifically on an in-State (as a safety). I'm a little more supportive of such school-wide policies. I just don't know how to judge whether GC's are really "forcing" application choices on students, and if so, how in the H do they get away with that? (Or is this a private counselor: did I misread that? And if so, how does that happen?)</p>
<p>Dear epiphany and anyone else still reading here:</p>
<p>I am overwhelmed by the number of people who have been kind enough to express their opinions. By no means is this over, so any further thoughts are welcome. Thank you again -- Georgemma</p>
<p>epiphany, They can't get away with it, and they certainly can't force a student to apply somewhere they don't want to. In general, no one ought to consider the GC as the be all and end all of college advice, even in a top ranked public high school. These counselors, even the better ones, are often spread too thin to even come close to effectively taking on that role. Listen to them, yes, and there is much valuable information that you can gain, for example, regarding success rates of comparable applicants from your school in years past. But it is first and foremost, incumbent on the applicant, and of course the parents can help, to do the due diligence ahead of making up the college list. I know my son would never have relied only on his GC's advice, which while not bad, per se, was far from well thought out or complete where my son and his interests were concerned.</p>
<p>Sometimes kids will pick what seems to be the most seemingly inconsequential detail and write off a place for that reason. Interestingly my S stayed overnight at JHU for accepted students open house (not this year) and ruled out Hopkins for the same reason....he didn't think there were many students just walking around, especially (late) at night----whereas at the other school (which he picked) when he spent the night there was lots of night activity in the dorms and off campus. He's a night owl. Hearing this again I wonder if there really is something to it at JHU. </p>
<p>I sympathize with your daughter's "predicament" though others have said plenty would kill for it. Wellesley being most similar to Middlebury seems to be logical choice, then JHU then Chicago. Projectile vomiting is about the best indicator I've heard so far...</p>
<p>I agree with the last 2 replies. To the OP, I would recommend that your D revisit JHU, and that any revisits be done without a parent present. I just recommend this, period. This accomplishes two things: (1) it removes any "blame" regarding decisions (a la the "commanding" GC); (2) it it removes clouds, shadows, influences however so subtle & silent & neutral; in this regard, it also <em>requires</em> the student to soul-search & make an independent decision. I think clarity is a lot more possible without a parent present. I don't remember if you indicated that you had dropped your D off, or whether you had accompanied her.</p>
<p>I have personally never been to the JHU campus. However, given the organization that is apparent (by school), it may be difficult to see that evening activity by observing the entire campus. Perhaps a school-by-school look would result in a more accurate impression, I don't know. </p>
<p>In any case, I definitely think that your D should visit classes, plural, at JHU -- at least one in Romance Languages/Lit and one in biochem. I would be surprised if she were appalled at the supposedly easy-admits or low standard. As I PM'ed you, the fact that there were GW & Trinity admits during her previous visits, does not mean that JHU admits are of the same caliber as those schools. Those could have been safeties for those students; they may have been applying to schools within a geographical area. They may be actually more interested in poli sci intern options, which is why they may be considering GW & Trinity along with JHU. </p>
<p>Many people actually believe, or have experienced, that the non-hosting opportunities are better moments to view a campus, for a variety of reasons.</p>
<p>The French Cultures program at JHU sounds wonderful. Chicago is also strong in some of your D's interests, of course. I would only be concerned about the opportunity to take as many courses in both of her desired fields, at Chicago, due to their undergrad core requirements (the volume of them).</p>
<p>Gosh, I think all 3 schools are great. Every child I know at JHU and UC is quite happy, and having worked at Wellesley, I loved the school and the area. At this point, I'd have her research departments and possibly talk to professors or current students.</p>
<p>These are absolutely great choices for a very intellectual and academically oriented student. I am not sure how a GC made all the decisions, but they are to be thanked, rather than blamed. I don't know much about Wellesley, but UC and JHU are somewhat similar. Both attract smart, academically oriented kids. Call them nerds if you want. In addition to being around smart kids, both have great faculties and a breadth of programs. JHU has a reputation for being medically oriented. That is not really the case. Some of the liberal arts are very strong and there is a lot of emphasis on attracting LA students. Neither are party schools, but both have lots of activities besides the academics. </p>
<p>Maybe I am reading too much into the comments, but it appears that the real problem is that your D is very emotional and very immature. One way or the other I am sure you will arrive at a decision. Let's hope your D does a lot of growing up before next Fall.</p>