Wellesley vs. Bowdoin fit advice

College Search & Selection
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Because grade inflation, the bottom 50% from these high schools is mostly made up of students with GPAs of A- and B+. Only the bottom 8% or fewer have GPAs of B or lower.

This is based on their own data.

Moreover, these high schools have a very high percent who are legacies to these colleges, and are of the super wealthy. potentially donors.

Also, the “top 50” LACs include many colleges for which most of the GPAs in the bottom 50% of “elite” high schools fall well within their mid 50%.

There are many students who attend the “elite” high schools who happen to have hooks like wealth, legacy, expertise in sports like crew or lacrosse, etc, which would allow them to be accepted.

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I was careful to say hooks as described by people on CC. Yes, there are more wealthy people, but if that is a hook… I am including athletes who are walk-ons or able to play IF they get in - but those are not true hooks.

Our bottom 3rd are 2.5 - 3.1’s. That seems to hold true for our peer schools. I can’t speak for the research you are referring to. Note I was not trying to make this point, but rather the OP described that she attended one of the most completive schools in the country. This gave me more confidence in her ability to be admitted to top 25 liberal arts colleges. Since she is not truly attending one of those schools, the rest is somewhat irrelevant. I am sure if you research how difficult it is to be admitted to one of the true top schools (say the top 20 in the nation), you will realize that B students do, in fact, get into strong colleges.

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Brooklyn Tech places within the top 1/5 of 1% when compared to other U.S. public high schools. Does this not meet your standards for one of the most competitive schools in the country?

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I know the school EXTREMELY well. It is a great, but from my experience, when people describe their school that way they would be speaking of one of the top 50 most competitive schools in the entire nation. You are correct that it would not make that list. It may not even be in the top 50 in NY state if you include private and public (feel free to break out a source because not certain). Not sure this is really the point of the post.

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What are the social opportunities within the consortium?

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Brooklyn Tech would make that list if compared to other public high schools.

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I would say top 200. Source?

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You could try U.S. News:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

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just checked equally flawed niche - #121

again, happy to discuss rankings with you if you want to message me - but truly off topic. note we are not including private schools so maybe not even ranked in top 300.

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Thank you to everyone who replied, I really appreciate it.

But, what @michaeluwill, do you mean by “I know the school EXTREMELY well.”

Furthermore by niche’s ranking, the one you refer to Brooklyn Tech places #2 in the state, so yes Brooklyn Tech absolutely places top 50 in the state. This would likely hold true even including private high schools.

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A number of people on this thread felt you were aiming way too high. Based upon your description of the school, before you named it, I felt you were maybe not shooting too high. Now that I know where you go to school, you are shooting just a little high. Most importantly, I would still apply as planned and just include a couple of safer options. Ignore the off-topic conversations. People at CC can’t help themselves. I am also guilty of being sucked in, so sorry for that. As for niche (flawed rankings btw), make sure you are looking at all schools public and private in New York State and not NYC public or some other. Good luck with your process. I think you have a somewhat better chance than most others here feel you have based upon my experience with your school - very good experiences BTW.

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More students = more events, parties, clubs, dining halls, etc.

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Thank you for you’re feedback, I was wondering however if you think that I have enough time to bring my grade up to an acceptable standard by the time I apply. Furthermore, as you now know what school I attend approximately what average do you suppose I would need in order to have a fair chance of admission at the two schools I have mentioned(as well as other similar schools)? As previously mentioned I am currently a sophomore.

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I think you do. Your school is a winner and it sounds like you are already looking at profiles of kids from prior years and where they were accepted. That will be more informative than the CC group IMO because (as you know) not all high schools are created equally. I would suggest 0 C’s going forward and more A’s than B’s. If you pull that off, I like your odds.

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35

No question that Bs get into strong colleges, including B students from less “elite” high schools.

From the school profile pages of Hotchkiss (about 90% GPA of B+ or higher), Choate (>93% of the students with UW GPAs of 3.0 and above, 88% 3.25 and above), Horace Mann (91% have GPAs of 3.0 or higher), Loomis (>93% GPAs above 3.0), Deerfield (90% GPAs 87/100 or higher), Taft (100% GPAs 80/100 or higher).

Groton and Exeter don’t publish and Andover is both impossible to translate (what is it with two failure levels?), and they also just publish average of class grades, not GPAs.

Most of the kids who attend these “elite” high schools come from the SES and from the social networks which attend “elite” colleges. Public high schools with students bodies which are not high SES, and who do not come from these networks do not have the rate of admissions to “elite” colleges that these high schools do.

IMSA, which accepts based on accomplishments alone (no development, no legacy, and no athletic admissions) sends only a very small number of kids to “elite” colleges. Same with Payton, Stuyvesant, Lane Tech, and I could go on.

Hell, let us look at Davidson Academy, for which you need to test as highly gifted to be accepted, which had more than half of their graduating class is NMSF, which has average SAT and ACT scores which are higher than anything you can find in any other high school, etc. Yet the percent of their students who are admitted to “elite” colleges is far lower than any of the top 20 or so most popular private prep schools.

In fact, the admissions rates from top public magnet high schools to “elite” colleges is only slightly higher than those from any good public high school.

However, the admission rates from top Magnet schools, including Davidson Academy, is what you would expect, based on the SES and parental connections of the students who attend these high schools.

So students with B averages from “elite” private schools are likely not being accepted to “elite” colleges because of their excellent academic record, but because of wealth and connections.

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Wealth and connections are a tough sell these days. College presidents, development and admissions run from the thought of it. Since it seems you agree that the best high schools in America get their kids into above average colleges, are you suggesting they just have more grade inflation than I think? Sounds like a minor point to me. Have you worked in one of these schools at the board level or as a college counselor or have you worked privately with 100+ of these kids. I can tell by your posts that you are extremely well read, but you can’t learn everything from a book, or from unaudited stats.

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Dedicated college counselors at the high school is likely a luxury and advantage that is absent at most high schools. And if those college counselors are well connected to desired colleges, that may be a further advantage in allowing them to recommend to each student colleges that are most likely to see them as fits from an admission standpoint.

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@michaeluwill I have worked with undergraduates from multiple schools, at multiple colleges, and I have worked with kids from private “elite” high schools in the Chicagoland area (The Lab School, Latin School, etc), as well as with kids who attended the public magnet schools, including IMSA, Payton, Lane Tech and others. I am also familiar with the Davidson Academy.

I can tell you that, academically, the kids attending the magnet schools are better than the kids attending the private schools. Yet The Latin School has placed more kids in “elite” colleges than either IMSA or Payton. Yet the accomplishments of the students of the Latin School do not come even close to those pf the public magnet schools.

Hell, compare the SAT/ACT and AP scores of the students at Taft to those at Davidson.

Mean SAT Reading & Writing
Taft: 680
Davidson: 751

Mean SAT Math
Taft: 690
Davidson: 778

Mean ACT Composite:
Taft: 30.1
Davidson: 34.8

AP scores:
Taft: 65% 4 or 5, 83% 3 or higher
Davidson: 86% 4 or 5, 99% 3 or higher

Where students matriculated:

Tafts: At least 2% matriculated to MIT or Stanford, least 13% matriculated to an Ivy, at least 75% matriculated to private colleges, and at least 75% matriculated to an “elite” college, private or public.

Davidson: Almost 13% matriculated to MIT or Stanford, 6% matriculated to an Ivy, about 55% matriculated to a private school, 61% matriculated to an “elite” college, private or public.

Although Davidson has, unquestionably, students who are academically superior to those of Taft (all have been designated "highly/profoundly gifted), it matriculates far fewer students to Ivies and other “elites”. They only matriculate more students to the two colleges which either do not consider legacy (MIT), or are not part of the East Coast “elite” high school => “elite” pipeline (Stanford).

Not trying to dump on Taft, I selected since it had the data easily accessible, and it’s a very good high school, but not ranked in the “top 5”, whereas Davidson is, arguably, the most selective public high school in the USA.

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We are getting too far off the garden path talking about high schools that are not Brooklyn Tech. Focus on the original poster, not OT debate.

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