Wellesley vs. Dartmouth

Colleges and Universities A-Z Wellesley College
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<p>I know there are several existing threads on CC covering this topic but most of them are really old and did not sufficiently answer my questions.</p>

<p>I already know that, prestige-wise, both schools are pretty good, although Dartmouth is probably slightly superior (although I've read on multiple threads that it's on the decline). My worry about Wellesley is the grade deflation policy - the average GPA at Dartmouth is higher. Making mostly As is very important to me because I want to attend a top 25 med school. I thought I was okay with the all girls aspect until after I got my other acceptances. Maybe a coed school is more socially vibrant?</p>

<p>On the other hand, I've read that Dartmouth's diversity isnt super great (Im Asian). I'm also worried about the alcohol scene/sexual abuse stuff. </p>

<p>Education at both are similar (liberal arts, good economics), although Dartmouth is #1 undergrad. I'm thinking about majoring in math (does Wellesley have an applied math track?).</p>

<p>Which school do you think is a better fit for me?</p>

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<p>Another thing to consider is location. Wellesley is out in the suburbs, but it is in the Boston area, while Dartmouth is in the small town of Hanover, NH. Besides the difference location might make in your college experience, ease of travel getting to/from school should also be considered, if you will be traveling from a distance.</p>

<p>And yes, it is difficult (but not impossible) to earn mostly A’s at Wellesley. </p>

<p>Have you been able to visit both and get a feel for them?</p>

<p>Both are obviously great schools. I wouldn’t worry about prestige/ranking at that level.</p>

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<p>@‌ Abstentions</p>

<p>We had the same concern about Wellesley. But decided to jump in with Wellesley anyways…:slight_smile: Only time will tell if we made the right choice.</p>

<p>If it is of any comfort to you, there is a thread by someone called Bluedevilmike… who is an Asian from California who attended Duke and is now attending [or finished med school] med school somewhere. He has given some great advice for future Pre-Meds. </p>

<p>Reading through his posts, he got mostly Bs and One C and One A [in Organic Chem I think, and he was pleasantly surprised at getting an A in Orgo], but he got in to top 10 or top 4 med school. [So lower grades from a good school is not going to be a strike against you, when it comes to Graduate school or Med School].</p>

<p>Choose the school that you feel “in-sync” with, do not choose a school for the rank, you will get to where you have to go and will enjoy getting there. </p>

<p>Good Luck with your decisions [Are you 1000% sure that you want to be a doctor, may be you feel this way at this time, but how sure are you, that you will still want to become a doctor in 3 years from now?].</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about grade deflation if you choose Wellesley. Grad schools are well aware of their grading policy, and it doesn’t affect grad school admissions. I think you’d be fine at either school academically. Socially, Dartmouth is more of a party hard, work hard place. There’s a lot more drinking that goes on there than at Wellesley or any women’s college, for that matter.</p>

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<p>I transfered to Wellesley from an elite “party” school and I am a current medical student, so I think I might be able to help you :)</p>

<p>I will say that coming to Wellesley was a bit of a shock. The students are very smart and diligent about completing the workload. Academics are certainly a priority. Grade deflation sucks, and I actually think Wellesley should change the policy. </p>

<p>At Wellesley, I had to make more of an effort to have a rich social life (i.e. there weren’t drunken dudes running around my dorm Thurs-Sat night), but once I did so, I actually was happier at Wellesley. I joined a social club at Wellesley, which allowed me to have lots of social events to choose from.</p>

<p>I liked that in my dorm - even on at Sat night - I felt totally safe and at ease wandering around in my PJs. It was nice to actually get asked out on dates by Harvard and MIT guys, and I had a wonderful Harvard boyfriend my last two years in college. I did go to parties at Wellesley and other colleges (Harvard, MIT mostly, but also Babson a few times), but the alcohol policy at Wellesley is incredibly strict, so girls only seemed to get really messy off campus.</p>

<p>For some reason too guys seem to love it when I say I went to Wellesley. More than a few have told me it is a great “wife” answer - they seem to see me as educated, poised, feminine and “not slutty.” This seems trivial and maybe even vaguely sexist if I overthink it. It certainly was not a consideration in my choosing Wellesley, however, most of us want to get married someday, and it has been a really nice perk in my dating life!</p>

<p>As for medical school/graduate school, Wellesley will prepare you exceptionally well. Of my three close friends that went to medical school, all of us went to a top 5 school. (Although, I’m sure Dartmouth has similar numbers).</p>

<p>One trick to boost your GPA at Wellesley that looks amazing on transcripts is to take many classes at MIT (it is very easy to cross-register). They grade A,B,C (no + or -), and the grading is easier than at Wellesley. So, if you get a 90 at MIT it translates into a 4.0 on your transcript from MIT. You mentioned you were interested in math, so this could be a very good option for you. I only took Econ and Physics courses at MIT, but I loved the experience.</p>

<p>Best of luck! There really is no “wrong choice” here. Dartmouth and Wellesley are both wonderful educational environments! Congratulations!</p>

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<p>@college_query‌ I wish I could visit both, but I live too far and it’s a bit inconvenient. That’s why I’m relying heavily on web research and other people’s insights. My friend visited Wellesley this past weekend and filled me in on her experience!</p>

<p>Also, aren’t Hanover and Wellesley, MA pretty close together? Aren’t they only about 2 hours apart? That’s barely a difference, right?</p>

<p>@tamtiger‌ Thank you! I actually found on a thread that bluedevilmike had a 3.83 GPA from Duke, which is probably mostly A’s, not B’s. That’s the type of GPA that I would like to get, actually (I’ll aim for a 4.0 but be okay with a 3.8). But I do see that he’s very knowledgeable in this area (did he also apply to law school?!), although he seems to have been inactive for a while on CC.</p>

<p>@Massmomm‌ Honestly, I’m not really sure how much I buy into the fact that grad schools acknowledge tougher grading at elite schools. Although I did know someone who had a 3.2 GPA from Cornell BME (also Asian) and a 36 MCAT, which are NOT very spectacular stats at all, but I’m not sure how great her ECs were. She was accepted to the med school I’m aiming for. </p>

<p>I’ve heard from a couple of sources that even if med schools do take into consideration tougher grading, they wouldn’t give as big a leeway as equating a 3.5 from an Ivy to a 4.0 from a state school (maybe like a 3.8/3.7 instead of 3.5). I guess I can make sure to get an extremely high MCAT score to balance out any mediocrity in my GPA, but that’s just adding on to the difficulty. But it is interesting that elite schools have much better grad school placement rates, so maybe you are right to some degree. I don’t know if that’s a risk I’m willing to take.</p>

<p>My friend who visited Wellesley was hosted by an alum of my high school who turned down Yale and UChicago for Wellesley (so she’s obviously brilliant; she’s also (South) Asian). Yet she told my friend that her GPA wavers between a 3.5 or 3.6 (IR-econ/History double major). Since she’s so hard-working, I was shocked that she can’t pull off at least a 3.8. Which makes me worry that even hard work won’t result in a high GPA. And everyone at Wellesley works really hard, right? </p>

<p>I’m just worried that I’ll either sacrifice social life for academics or vice versa.</p>

<p>@greenflower88‌ Thank you for your response! Interesting trick for GPA-boosting (why would MIT be easier than Wellesley though o.o)! My concerns about that are a) the hour-long bus ride to Boston/MIT on a weekday and b) the fact that my classes will be filled with MIT students - what if I need help on homework and need to ask a peer for help? Also, would I be able to complete pre-med prereqs at MIT or are there specific requirements?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>I’m curious to find out more about grade deflation as well. That Yale story scares me. o_O</p>

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<p>@abstentions - Wellesley and Hanover are a little over 2 hours apart. There is a bus from Boston to Hanover. Getting to/from school is something to consider, however. My D was able to fly to Logan Airport in Boston and take public transportation to Wellesley for around $2.50. It took a while, but she didn’t have a car and didn’t want to spend $$ on a taxi. If you fly into Boston for Dartmouth, you’ll need to take a bus, which is $38 each way and around 3 hours. For Dartmouth, you can also fly into the Manchester airport, which is 90 minutes away, and take a bus to Hanover.</p>

<p>My D enjoyed going to school in the Boston area. There are lots of other colleges in Boston. She also took advantage of cross-registration at MIT (and got an A in that class!). So even though the two schools are a little over 2 hours apart, there would be a difference attending college in the gorgeous suburb of a big city vs attending college in a beautiful small town. She had a part-time job in Boston and a boyfriend at MIT so took the bus into Boston/Cambridge frequently.</p>

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<p>@absentions‌ @orangevanilla‌ </p>

<p>Grade Deflation at Wellesley is pretty silly. You do have to work much harder for an A. They curve all 100 and 200 level classes to a B+, so that is the grade you should expect if you’re middle of the pack. I was dinged mostly by “easy” classes, since with less to go on, the professor seems to just give everyone a B+. (I am still, to this day, extremely annoyed by a B+ I got in an easy, show up and sign-in type class). You can forget about a 4.0 as a humanities major - you practically have to write a Pulitzer winner to get an A on a paper. A 3.6/.7 in History/IR is extremely respectable coming from W - your friend could go to an Ivy grad school with that if she wanted. That said, at least once you break into the 300 levels, grade deflation is lifted, and professors don’t have to curve the class average to a B+. Students are often afraid of the 300 levels because they’re “advanced,” but they were my GPA boosters. Science and math were usually easier to get a higher GPA, as long as the tests were hard enough that some people were doing worse than a B+ (usually the case in a big intro class).</p>

<p>Take strategic MIT classes - i.e. not something way over your head, and not requiring commute during rush hour. Be open to MIT non-STEM courses - some low hanging fruit here. Reach out and make an MIT friend so you know what classes grade favorably, and have someone you can study with. I didn’t take pre-med requirements there, so I can’t speak to that point.</p>

<p>From the medical admissions standpoint, usually GPA and MCAT, along with some other hard stats, are plugged into a calculator and if you make the cut someone reads your application. With that in mind, and if you play everything else right in your application, if you have a 3.4 and a 31, I’d say you’ll get into an MD medical school. A 3.5 and a 32, you’ll get into a very solid medical school - maybe a top 15. And a 3.5 and 34 gets you a shot at the top 5. My point is, you really don’t need a 4.0 or even 3.8 gpa, but you do have to be ahead of the curve. Don’t get a 3.2! (But if you do, and still get a 36 on your MCAT, you’ll be fine coming from W too.)</p>

<p>General stats of graduates who got into medical school should be available at the pre-med office. I would ask for that information in making your decisions.</p>

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<p>@greenflower88‌ Thanks for your response! So basically, my choice to be a math major is probably correct, since the exams are objective, and the profs can’t just give you a lower grade unless you ACTUALLY miss something. I also read online that if you earn an A, you’ll get an A, so professors SHOULDN’T curve the grades down, right? </p>

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<p>@greenflower88, I am genuinely puzzled by your statement that it is harder for humanities majors to get an A at Wellesley. My daughter has made nothing but As so far this year, and she is pretty sure she’s majoring in history and French (she is currently at the 200 level in this and the 100 level in her other classes). She is a first year, so maybe her grades will decline, but I’d hate to discourage anyone from coming to Wellesley out of fear of grade deflation. It has been her experience that professors grade fairly. They expect a lot, but aren’t unreasonable. They’re there to educate students, not scare them to death and make them think they can’t ever go to grad school.</p>

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<p>Not trying to discourage anyone from coming to Wellesley. My college friends and I are much better off for having attended. I would send my future daughters there in a heartbeat. I’m sorry if my posts on grade deflation dissuade anyone from attending! I really just believe in honesty and transparency in this process. I think the students that were the happiest at Wellesley were the ones who were expecting an academic challenge and studied appropriately. I also had a great social life at Wellesley, got into my top choice medical school with a good but not great GPA, and so I think it is all possible.</p>

<p>@Massmomm‌ Your daughter is doing brilliantly. A solid 4.0 in every history class is quite a remarkable feat at Wellesley. I believe you only need around a 3.5 (or something like that) to be eligible to write an honors thesis, so the school isn’t trying to shut down its students. They don’t “scare” you at Wellesley, and they certainly don’t make you think you can’t go to grad school. The bar is just higher for a solid A on a paper, but the idea is to push us to our potential. If anything, students who were not inclined to go to graduate school end up deciding to do so while at Wellesley. About half of my friends attended Ivy league graduate schools in various disciplines, and I got the sense that this was the norm. The rest are working in fantastic jobs in finance, consulting, fashion etc.</p>

<p>@absentions‌ You’ll have a number of general requirements to complete at W. I would recommend filling your first semester with a selection of courses from different disciplines that fulfill your general requirements to see what you are drawn to the most, since you really do have a wide variety of interests. And yes, if you have a 94+ average on all your exams and assignments in a class, you will certainly get an A.</p>

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<p>OP, pm me…I can respond to but can’t initiate a pm.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth had a 14% drop in applications this year while Wellesley had an all-time high. Is this something to consider as well? Does this mean that Wellesley is on the rise while Dartmouth is on the decline? </p>

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<p>^Don’t read too much into that. Dartmouth made a widely publicized decision to stop accepting AP credits. Many elite private aren’t very generous with AP credit anyway (it’s used largely for placement rather than to knock off a year or semester; it’s assumed that virtually everyone at these colleges is going to be there for four years, so what’s the point of AP to get ahead? In addition, these schools also accept many students from private high schools or magnet schools that do not have the AP offerings because they do not need them to provide a rigorous academic experience). However, Dartmouth’s change in policy has garnered it some bad publicity. </p>

<p>Nothing about the essential nature of either school has changed for many years. Don’t base your decision on year-to-year fluctuations in app rate.</p>

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<p>@absentions‌ </p>

<p>You seem to be a brilliant, driven, hard working student who aims high. You will do fine in any college that you attend. But “do not” select a college because it is higher ranked or the number of applicants increased or decreased in a given year. </p>

<p>If possible visit both the Dartmouth College and Wellesley College and then decide, If you can not visit them then go with your gut feeling [or what ever you gleaned from CC or other sources]. </p>

<p>Go to a college where you think you will be happy [You will very likely be in the top 5% in which ever college you attend]. </p>

<p>Do not make the mistake of going to a college because it sounds more hip or has a better ranking or has more applicants in a given year. Just my 1/2 cent worth of suggestion.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth is about two hours from Boston if you don’t run into traffic; with traffic on I-93 southbound, it can take closer to three hours. You can’t go directly from Hanover to Wellesley by public transportation, though, so it would take longer.</p>

<p>Also, Hanover gets more snow and colder temps than Wellesley does in the winter. It’s also not near a city as Wellesley is. Dartmouth does have a beautiful campus, but it also has graduate schools and a strong athletic program, so the feel is much different.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision!</p>

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<p>Dartmouth is far more isolated. In addition, the drop in admissions probably came from publicity surrounding its extremely obnoxious fraternity scene. Frats dominate the social scene and it’s not a pretty picture. See <a href=“Dartmouth’s Hazing Abuses: Confessions of an Ivy League Frat Boy – Rolling Stone”>http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/confessions-of-an-ivy-league-frat-boy-inside-dartmouths-hazing-abuses-20120328&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>However, do note that Dartmouth’s current president has said that things have to change, so there is definite concern from leadership. Still, cultures change slowly.</p>

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<p>Thanks for everything! I made complete a summary and a list of my pros/cons for each school. I’m actually leaning slightly towards Wellesley, but I’m having trouble letting go of Dartmouth’s name. Also, the lack of guys at Wellesley (social life-wise) is bothering me slightly. Also, Dartmouth’s proximity to a med school and medical center can be really convenient since I want to get a lot of medicine-related ECs. What do you think?</p>

<p>Summary: Dartmouth is slightly more prestigious than Wellesley. Both have a liberal arts academic program. However, Dartmouth has a medical school on campus and a medical center nearby (medicine-related volunteer/research opportunities). Dartmouth also has a wild frat scene, alcoholism, racism, and sexism; however, the admin has recently publicly acknowledged these issues, and they want to improve it. I don’t know how fast culture can change, though. Dartmouth’s (undergrad) population is around 4000, while Wellesley’s is around 2000. </p>

<p>Wellesley is the #1 women’s college, and it has produced outstanding alumni in the sciences, politics, and business (most of Dartmouth’s famous female alumni are actors). I think that if I go there, I will grow into my own skin and gain a lot of self-confidence, and maybe become closer to becoming the kind of woman that I want to be. Wellesley is also located near (but not extremely conveniently near) Boston, which harbors massive amounts of opportunities - social, professional, and academic (including hospitals, etc etc). Dartmouth is the most isolated of the Ivies, but as I mentioned before, it does have a bubble of its own with its grad schools and the lovely town of Hanover.</p>

<p>Dartmouth

  • Pro: 50% of the population is male, so it will be easier to meet guys. I really need to start gaining experience dating people (but this is obviously not my primary goal in attending college). The male population is also kind of important to me because I want some platonic, male friends. I’ve never really had a solid group of friends that includes males, and I think that this is important not only to my personal life, but also to potentially meeting someone who might later become more than a friend.
  • Pro: Dartmouth is ranked 10 nationally. It’s #1 in undergraduate teaching. I have a hard time letting go of it because of its place in the Ivy League. Dartmouth is somewhere that I’d be damned proud to exist and flourish.
  • Con: The drinking, racism, sexism, and record of sexual assault at Dartmouth scare me. I’m there to succeed, to be happy, to get a good education. I don’t want ■■■■ happening to me that could interfere with any of those. The racism and sexism (and of course sexual abuse) frighten me especially (although I’m sure this is only a small portion of DC’s population, but a few people can make a huge impact), because I am neither a male nor a Caucasian. I’m really disadvantaged in the presence of both those biases.</p>

<p>Wellesley

  • Pro: Wellesley is smaller and undergraduate-focused (not that Dartmouth isn’t as well). There are less people, so more opportunities available for each person. I think it’ll be easier to get things like leadership roles. It’s so empowering to women.
  • Pro: Academically, I honestly think that I might do better at Wellesley than at Dartmouth. Simply because I will be more willing to sacrifice my social life here. There are no guys! I can focus on schoolwork and really make sure to get a solid GPA.
  • Pro: Location near a metropolitan social hub - Boston. Much more exciting and vibrant than Hanover, I’d say.
  • Con: Grading policy: Introductory courses (100- and 200-) may not have a class average of higher than a B+, although professors who have higher averages can just fill out a form. This is a DEFLATION policy. However, I do think that I am capable of being above average. At least most of the time. Just being above average ensures me an A- (which is what I need to make a 4.0 on the Texas medical school GPA scale). If I just get that GPA most of the time, then I will have a 3.8+ GPA (on the Texas med school scale). Which is what I want/need/desperately covet.
  • Con: Social life: No guys. I probably won’t make any platonic, male guy friends. If I have a relationship with guys (from surrounding colleges - MIT, Harvard, Babson, Olin, BU, BC), they’ll probably be romantic relationships. And it’s a bit demeaning to ride the Cuddle Shuttle to Boston/Cambridge just to party with MIT/Harvard frat boys. Again, finding a boyfriend isn’t my priority in coming to college, so I won’t really care about this too much coming to Wellesley if otherwise I can get a fantastic education, get into the med school I want, and be reasonably happy my entire four years there.</p>
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<p>@absentions‌ </p>

<p>You have summarised your thoughts very nicely. After reading this, I think you will be happier at Dartmouth than Wellesley.</p>

<p>Do not worry about the negative publicity about sexism, racism etc… Press always exaggerates these kind of things.</p>

<p>Looks like your heart is set on Medicine. While Wellesley can provide with comparable opportunities and education for you to achieve this goal, Dartmouth perhaps has an edge over Wellesley for all the reasons you mentioned.</p>

<p>Go to Dartmouth, you will be happier, because your heart seems to be in Dartmouth, don’t talk yourself [or let any one else talk you] in to Wellesley.</p>

<p>Congratulations on such great choices and opportunities.</p>