<p>I was a student at Smith last year. I am wondering how you think Wellesley compares to Smith academically in biology and political science? Much better? Somewhat better? If it is much better academically, does this come at a cost, such as less feel-good female bonding? Also, I was wondering how Wellesley compares to Swarthmore academically? Comparable? Almost as good?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Weren't you the one that transferred from Smith to Chicago but then wished you had chosen Swarthmore? Are you trying to transfer again? From your posts it seems like you aren't going to be truly happy anywhere. Just my $.02.</p>
<p>Wellesley v. Smith
Smith has more lesbians
Smith has five college whatever-that's-called
Smith is in Western Mass. Um. What's there? </p>
<p>Wellesley is better accademically.
Wellesley students can take classes at MIT
Wellesley is close to Boston.
Wellesley has great alum connections (I'm sure Smith does too though)</p>
<p>Um, Wesleyan has boys. There are quite a few parties at Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Right, well, I meant Wellesley, not Wesleyan. And I wound up not transferring to UChicago, b/c I realized I really wanted to go to an east-coast ruralesque LAC. Therefore, I think Wellesley may be a good option, since it's better academically than Smith and still offers courses I'd want to take, yet is close enough I could visit my Smith friends on weekends. Since 30% of transfer applicants are accepted, I think I've got a real shot.</p>
<p>Btw, do you know anyone who was able to take a class with Noam Chomsky at MIT?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Smith has more lesbians: One of my D's two questions was how she, as a straight girl, would be treated at Smith. After e-mails from other parents, talking to then-current students, and doing two overnights, and now in her second year, all the answers keep coming back the same thing: No Problem. If it's not a problem about how you're treated, then what does the percentage of lesbians matter to you? (Fwiw, about 25-30 percent, it seems, though it varies by House...D's is about 50 percent, others are about 10 percent.)</p></li>
<li><p>Whatever-that's-called = Five College Consortium. Students can cross-register at Amherst, U/Mass Amherst, Hampshire, and Mount Holyoke. Smith is the biggest net importer of students, which gives both academic and social seasoning. I know Smithies who take classes at all the others except Hampshire and they're pleased with the opportunities. Requires some deft scheduling due to transporation via shuttle but is <em>less</em> of a problem with time/distance than Wellesley/MIT.</p></li>
<li><p>Smith is in Western Massachusetts. Um. What's there? D is a big city kid (Los Angeles area) and whether Northampton was big enough for her was her other major question. The two overnights and now a year-plus experience there have confirmed that NoHo has enough to keep interesting in terms of restaurants, music, film, etc. D was admitted to Wellesley as well (with a "likely" on Early Evaluation...a civilized practice I wish more colleges would emulate) and did an overnight there as well and in contrast found Wellesley itself to be quite bucolic, not quite as bad as Mount Holyoke, where she didn't even want to get into the car. NoHo is a five-minute walk, which means it's there every day and doesn't take a huge bite out of your schedule in transit times. D has spent weekends in both NYC and Boston when she had the time as well as forays up into Vermont, down to Connecticut, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Wellesley is better academically. A flat out unsustainable assertion. Wellesely's incoming test scores are higher, but oddly enought that disappears when you account for socio-economic status of applicants; Smith is much more aggressive about seeking out lower-income and first-in-family-to-go-to-college students. Stats are very similar in terms of graduate and professional school acceptances. For her interests, D felt that Smith was a better fit than Wellesley and in terms of classroom offerings, classroom experience, peers, etc. she felt that Smith was no worse than Wellesley and in some ways better, e.g., performing arts are treated as integral parts of the curriculum, not side shows. (D is a double major, Math/Government, but who is also a serious ballet dancer and serious French horn player. She has danced in senior choreography projects and the orchestra played Beethoven's Ninth at Carnegie Hall last May.) D is planning a six-month internship on a U.S. Senate staff next year and then spending the Spring with the National Institute of Mathematics in Budapest...the range of off-campus academic options are very rich and two-thirds of Smith juniors take advantage of them. Moreover, Smith provides every student with one paid internship; one of D's best friends spent last summer as an investment banking intern with Citigroup and they've asked her back for next summer. I also think Smith's academic advising is first rate.</p></li>
<li><p>Alum associations. Both Wellesley's and Smith's have impressed me as being ferociously effective. Wellesley's is larger here in L.A. but I like Smith's very much and have watched them link alums up for housing, jobs, etc. Stories of making arrangements to stay with alums they've never met while traveling abound.</p></li>
<li><p>Boys. Have to work for 'em both places, Wellesely might be a little easier in that regard. I've heard "stay away from the Amherst rugby team."</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Wellesley sends more students to top grad schools in particular, according to the Wallstreet Journal feeder school list. I do think Wellesley students tend to work harder than Smith students, based on what I've heard...</p>
<p>If you search in the Parents Forum, there was a discussion of the WSJ list as being superficial and flawed...but the kind of thing the sells papers. Cf., the US News Rankings. </p>
<p>Work harder, I dunno. Quote from my D's last phone call: "At Smith you feel like you're lazy if you're not doing something intellectually engaging."</p>
<p>I think there is some validity to the stereotypes of Smith as being a bit more easy going, Wellesley more intense. To jump from that to "works not as hard," "works harder" is not necessarily logical.</p>
<p>Okay, here's an old joke about the stereotype:</p>
<p>A Smith prof walks into the classroom at 9:00am and says "Good morning, class."</p>
<p>Student #1 says, "What do you mean by 'good'? How do you know that my values align with yours?"</p>
<p>Student #2 says, " 'Morning' implies a discussion centered on our hemisphere."</p>
<p>Student #3 says, "We should eliminate classist language from our discussions."</p>
<p>A prof walks into the classroom at 9:00am and says, "Good morning, class."</p>
<p>Twenty Wellesley students scribble furiously in their notebooks, "Good morning, class."</p>
<p>Well, I am a student at Smith looking to transfer and I am not impressed with Smith at all in terms of work-ethic or how much work professors demand (a majority of students don't do all the homework, for instance). Perhaps Wellesley is not where I should look either though. Perhaps I should look elsewhere...</p>
<p>Also I feel it's only fair to mention that I contacted a biology professor at Wellesley who earned her BA at Smith, and she agreed things were stepped up somewhat at Wellesley. While the Wallstreet Journal article perhaps did not include all the grad schools is could have/should have, it included grad schools both highly selective and desirable to many students from most schools, so I think it works to show to what schools students can be accepted.</p>
<p>You will not find any signficant difference as to what grad/professional schools students from either school would be accepted to. Their "brag sheets" look very similar.</p>
<p>I forgot the third part of the joke:</p>
<p>A professor at Barnard walks into the classroom at 9:00am and says, "Good morning, class" and no one is there because the earliest anyone got to bed was 5:00am.</p>
<p>I guess I have not seen their "brag sheets"</p>
<p>is it hard to cross transfer with MIT from Wellesley? do lots of people do it or is it not very popular?</p>
<p>Ecape, their "brag sheets" were among the admissions packets for both colleges. They probably have them somewhere on their respective websites.</p>
<p>While only single data point on the question, Wellesely did very well in terms of Fullbright scholarships awarded for 2005-2006, 9 awarded out of 30 applicants, third on the list of LAC's. </p>
<p>However, Smith was first at 14 awarded out of 31. (And Swat was way down the list at 4 for 26.) </p>
<p>I post this not to diminish Wellesley in any way--it's a very fine school--but as a response to some of the condescension about Smith academics. Obviously, there is something very good going on there.</p>
<p>My D is also looking into both schools and has found Smith to be a better fit. Really...isn't that all that matters? They're both great school with great reputations. To say one is harder than the other is not fair. We have visited both of them, and have found Smith (particularly in sciences and dance) to be a better choice for my D. Northampton is awesome, can't do much better than that! FWIW, we also found the campus at Smith to be much better maintained and cleaner, and the dorms (houses) to be a great touch. Again, both are great schools and great choices. Where do you feel more at home is what matters? I'm sorry to hear that ecape did not have more of a challenge at Smith. What was your major/minor?</p>
<p>Fulbright means almost nothing about academic rigor. Fulbright is mostly about creativity. And to a certain extent, I absolutely believe fit is most important in choosing a college. However, academic prowess and opportunities can be a part of fit. Smith is less selective than any of the other top-25 LACs. I absolutely hate intellectual snobbery and linear ranking systems, but I do have to suggest there may be some correlation between strength of a college application and how hard a student chose to work in high school. Having been a student at Smith for a year I feel I would rather be at a somewhat more academically intense institution, but to each her own. To be specific, I have polled my Smith friends and we all agree that the majority of students at Smith don't do all their reading and homework, which I found frustrating. I do not know how this compares to other "top" colleges. Wellesley can afford to spend a lot more on faculty costs/student, which may or may not translate into additional differences in the classroom. My majors were Biology and Political Science. For what it is worth, there are many very friendly, socially aware people at Smith.</p>
<p>Also, I feel I should at that there are certain areas where Smith is very strong for a LAC. Dance, Chemistry, Philosophy, for instance.</p>
<p>Ecape,
This I found interesting:
"I realized I really wanted to go to an east-coast ruralesque LAC. Therefore, I think Wellesley may be a good option, since it's better academically than Smith and still offers courses I'd want to take, yet is close enough I could visit my Smith friends on weekends."</p>
<p>This says a lot to me, particularly about the quality of friends that you have made at Smith. You want to transfer, but you don't want to leave your friends behind, and are willing to drive four hours round trip to see them and not make friends at your new institution. That's the equivalent of liking your high school friends so much that you drive home on weekends to hang out at the mall. Keeping in touch is one thing, but you'd be moving on.</p>
<p>You're unhappy about your classes: they're too easy. Don't worry, nobody here at Wellesley complains about too little work or too easy classes. If you have too much work here, you might not even make it to Smith as often as you like: four hours is a lot of time. Here, people don't like the two hour round trip of the exchange bus to Boston (but it isn't unused). Also, if driving to Smith becomes your sole extra-curricular activity, it will be harder to make friends. You might as well be a commuter student.</p>
<p>If you want more work and academiclly stimulation, I don't doubt Smith can give that to you. I know nothing about the school, but it can't be that much less academic focused than Wellesley is. So do more work. Do every reading twice. Overload your schedule. Double Major. Get all As, graduate Magna Cum Laude, and annoy the crap out of everyone at Smith by being that girl who does everything perfectly. If you are at a higher level than everyone else, you should have no trouble getting a job doing research with a professor. A good student is always a good student. If you do all that, then it won't matter if Smith sends one woman every 10 years to the grad school you want: you will be that one woman who goes to that ultimate grad school.</p>
<p>But if you still want to get out of Smith, I'm happy at Wellesley, both with classes and friends...</p>
<p>By the way, have you looked at Williams? I never did, but it's closer to Smith, and has the enivronment you probably want as well, a good academic reputation, and students there do a lot of neat stuff.</p>
<p>Well said, WendyMouse! As a Wellesley student, it was refreshing to not hear you put down Smith. I love your comments about going the "extra mile" on your academics if ecape is bored at Smith. Sounds like she has made wonderful friends; and doesn't that bode well for fit? I get the impression that ecape will not be happy anywhere. Maybe she is just looking for that "perfect" school, which again, comes down to fit. Maybe an elite LAC isn't the right kind of school for ecape; perhaps she should transfer to an IVY with a grand reputation. I think, FWIW, she will find that they are no better equipped to satisfy her, as they also deal with graduate students who get most of the profs time.</p>
<p>I am not looking for a grand reputation. I am simply looking for a school with more resources, and more serious students. Since I am relatively content at Smith, I do not know why you think I won't be happy anywhere... Maybe Wellesley is not different enough from Smith to make a difference. I am also looking at some coed LACs that offer stronger programs in my areas of interest.</p>
<p>Ecape: I thought I read about a month ago that you had transfered to Chicago and were thinking of transferring back to Smith in January and then transferring out again. Am I confused? In any case, I don't think you will find Wellesley all that different from Smith.</p>