<p>PizzaGirl, The original is “manner,” from Hamlet:</p>
<p>Act I, Scene iv when Hamlet observes the drunken atmosphere at Elsinore -* “But to my mind, though I am native here / And to the manner born, it is a custom / More honour’d in the breach than the observance.”*</p>
<p>But many people believe it is “manor.” Maybe from the great BBC comedy:</p>
<p>We had some terrific tour guides in the 28 colleges we visited with out two kids. Our DD was a tour guide and worked in undergrad admissions at her school. She was honest in her tour presentations. If she didn’t know an answer, she referred the family to the right place to find one. </p>
<p>Statistics change from class to class and year to year and were NOT a subject for the tour guides. The adcoms at this school were very clear that any statistics they gave were averages over many years.</p>
<p>To the OP…why are you asking this question? Were you led to believe that virtually all kids (including your own) who matriculated in physics were guaranteed to graduate with that degree? </p>
<p>Give the huge number of students who switch majors annually in college, I’m not sure why the graduation rate in a department would be a reliable statistic anyway.</p>
<p>To turn the tables a bit, when I was a tour guide, there was always a parent or two who wanted to play “Gotcha!” It was clear from some people’s manner/tone that they were hoping to catch us in a lie. “So, you CLAIM a student-faculty ratio of 12 to 1, but HOW many of those ‘faculty’ are REALLY graduate students?” Jeez, this is a college tour, not an enhanced interrogation.</p>
<p>This probably happens more than average at Harvard, but I’ve seen it elsewhere occasionally.</p>
<p>We were never “lied” to. I did, however, believe what we were told by the admissions staff of a particular program about making sure the students were on top of all requirements of the program at all times. Supposedly, they would reach out to the students and “make sure” they did what they were supposed to do. I should have known better … you can’t make a kid do anything! I think they may want to rephrase their pitch to: We will monitor our students and tell them when they fall short. However, we can’t force them to do what they are supposed to do if they don’t want to do it. By the way, I did send them a polite email to this effect (and I don’t hold them responsible for my less-than-motivated S’s behavior).</p>
<p>A lot of my colleges I toured when my brother was touring colleges, so I didn’t know much about the colleges then, but the few I’ve seen more recently haven’t lied, and only one time did they omit something that was pertinent to what they were talking about (Had something to do with dorm quality, or something. They said everyone loves ALL the dorms, but I know a lot of people hate the dorms they are in).</p>
<p>D and I attended so many presentations and tours that we could have given the pitch ourselves. The one we got a chuckle out of every time was “we have X clubs on campus, but if there’s something you want to do and there isn’t a club, it’s really easy, you just get 3 (or 5 or 7) of your friends and you can start one”. They generally fail to mention that you need a faculty member, a constitution, and possibly a funding grant from someplace. It’s somewhat more challenging than they make it seem. Not really a “lie” - more of an exaggeration.</p>
<p>Also true that some schools will claim every club even if some of them have been inactive for years. Is there really a cricket club? Or has it not seen action since 1959?</p>
<p>Exaggerations-- probably. Lies–not that I saw. I do know a young woman who had to forcibly remind her department what she was promised when she was making her decision, but that did work. </p>
<p>BUT-- D’s school definitely reserves the best food for Open Houses, Info sessions. They don’t even let current students get in line with the visitors, for fear they’d run out of the better food!</p>
<p>We did not experience this during the pre-admissions season, but experienced a despicable situation during the run up to May 1 decisions. DS was wait-listed at a fancy East Coast college. My conversation with the Admissions Officer went like this: AO: So, your son needs to call in and tell us he will accept. Me: What if your FA offer is not adequate? How can you expect him to commit on the spot w/out knowing what the offer is? AO: We have more flexibility. End of story: This university is obviously worried about yield and while they would have taken my son, they expected him to sign on the dotted line right then and there. I did not feel the FA situation was honest. We were both left with this feeling of having been totally sleazed by the AO. I lost all respect for the university.</p>
<p>One more comment about Berkeley. There is “lying” by commission and lying by omission. In my estimation, one of the biggest deceptions the UCs perpetrate is that of graduation rates. One of my DD’s graduated seven years ago from UCB. Had she not attended summer school three years in a row, she would NEVER have graduated in four. It had ZERO to do with 8 a.m. classes. The UCs are notorious (and their data support this) for 51-69% graduation rates in 4 years. (UCB is +/-69%; UCLA is +/-67%; UCSD 56%; UCD 51%, etc.) Why do you think they call a freshman a 1st year instead of a freshman? Parents and students need to factor this in when considering overall cost. Five or six years at a UC makes many private universities look like a bargain. My DS abandoned the family’s UC tradition and headed East, where graduation rate at his university is 87% after 4 years.</p>
<p>I was never lied to, but I certainly feel like I could have won lots of money if NBC turned “Are You Smarter Than a Tour Guide?” into a game show. :p</p>
<p>Cal Poly San Luis Obispo – Never lied to. No omissions. Everything was true and they blew our minds. If anything they understated how great the school was. They emphasized the “hands on, learn by doing” culture and teaching methodology many, many times. Every word of it turned out to be true. We chose this school and have not regretted the decision for even a moment.</p>
<p>Cal Poly Pomona – Never lied to. No omissions. They even admitted to several embarrassing things like the admin tower being poorly designed and eventually to be shut down over construction errors. Nice school. Did not choose.</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd College – Never lied to. No omissions. They were proud of the school and rightly so. Fun, quirky tour. We enjoyed the heck out of it. But ultimately not a match for our kid.</p>
<p>Pomona College – Great tour. No lies. No omissions. A true liberal arts college - not enough emphasis on STEM majors for our kid.</p>
<p>UCLA – No lies, but TONS of exaggerations and omissions. Ended up really angry after the tour and declined the offer of admission immediately upon returning home. If we had a lap top in the car, we would not have waited until we got home to decline – yeah it was that bad. I’ve taught at UCLA and really liked it. But the engineering department did everything to deflect questions about the TA’s teaching the majority of classes and an astonishing lack of lab time. The professors themselves were pompous and more interested in talking “at” us rather than talking “with” us. Undergrads were clearly at the bottom of the totem pole and left to sink or swim in an unsupported environment. Not what we wanted at all. For $35,000 a year it was disgusting actually. </p>
<p>UC San Diego – No lies. A few omissions, but not too bad. Like UCLA the subject of TA’s was very touchy. Seriously considered this school. Ultimately turned it down. </p>
<p>UC Santa Barbara – Self tour. So, no lies or omissions! Beautiful campus. Maybe the most beautiful we’ve ever seen. Million dollar views of the ocean from many dorms. Turned down the offer.</p>
<p>My daughter and I toured one private college who touted a policy of a degree in four years or the fifth year is free. I thought this was a wonderful benefit of the school until I asked how many 5th years they had given “free” and was told none. This school does not have a 100% graduation rate so I had to conclude that there was some “small print” that they did include in the open house presentation.</p>
<p>Can’t say I have ever felt lied to - not that I know of. However, a science professor at Truman State went out of his way (without us asking) to address his experience with growing class sizes due to the university not hiring when there is a retirement or vacancy. His point was that despite the increased workload on professors, students were still highly engaged, involved in research, and given opportunities not available at a much larger institution. I was impressed with his honesty and probably would have felt lied to if I found this out from an outside source.</p>
I think they may want to rephrase their pitch to: We will monitor our students and tell them when they fall short. However, we can’t force them to do what they are supposed to do if they don’t want to do it. By the way, I did send them a polite email to this effect (and I don’t hold them responsible for my less-than-motivated S’s behavior).</p>