Wesleyan et al vs. Brandeis w/ full scholarship

College Search & Selection
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<p>Oh look, another april college decision thread.</p>

<p>So I'm deciding between Wesleyan, Vassar, Oberlin, Bard, Reed, and Brandeis with a full tuition scholarship. I'm interested in studying political science or something similar, as well as film and music. I guess I'd say I'm looking for a school that could be both artsy and intellectual, active and laid back. </p>

<p>Here were my impressions from doing overnights this month:</p>

<p>-Wesleyan had been my top choice (after Brown) for a while. while my host and his roommate weren't people I'd probably be friends with, my host was nice and since it was during WesFest we went to tons of events. one thing that I realized was that the campus seems to have much less open green space compared to other schools, which I was kind of disappointed with. while I'm not so shallow that I judge the school by its campus, it did kind of make a difference to me. I liked the options in the housing as well, and the all-freshman dorm I was in was really nice (though I know not all of the dorms were as new as that one). the student body seemed slightly more intellectual and interested in academics than the others. I was initially really interested in the CSS program but I found that you have extremely little say in what classes you take, but I still loved the class I visited, plus the film department is incredible in some senses, it feels like Wesleyan is the "safest" option, because I know a lot of people that go there, it's close by, and I feel like I have the best sense of what it's like.</p>

<p>-Vassar was pretty much how expected college to be, for better or for worse. beautiful campus, easy to get into NYC although there's a lot to do on campus, yadda yadda. there didn't seem to be anything that special about it, and I thought both the artsy/political sides seemed a little superficial when compared to how much more hardcore Wesleyan seemed to be about it. I don't know if that makes sense, but I did notice a difference between the student body at Vassar and Wesleyan. I also didn't like how there were very few options in housing: while I wouldn't mind that it was totally random, the difference in quality of the dorms seemed to be pretty big. I didn't particularly notice the gender ratio (I'm a guy), although every guy I met there said that if you come here you will get laid no matter what your orientation. so that's a plus, I guess. </p>

<p>-Oberlin was the school I was most most impressed with from my visit as it was the one I knew the least about (I hadn't visited before my overnight). both the coop system and the exco sound fantastic. I love both the freedom, the community, and the food that living in a co-op would provide. the exco sounds like so much fun and it provides a venue to get involved with a lot of extracurriculars that you normally might not get involved in. it sounds like you can do anything you want during winter term, which is really great. the student body is considerably more laid-back/chill in general (including about academics, which could be either good or bad), as well as noticeably more white. I'm interested in music so having the conservatory there would be a big plus for me. but at the end of the day, it's still in rural ohio. </p>

<p>-Brandeis... well, it wasn't really my thing and I didn't really want to apply in the first place. it was alright, I guess. it sounded like it wasn't most people's first choice, but they were happy were they ended up. my host and all his friends seemed to do little except smoke pot... while I don't care about this at all, they didn't seem to be involved with nearly anything outside of their classes. I did go to the activities fair, and I honestly think the "social justice" thing is kind of... fake, though I can't describe why. like, they're not as involved or progressive as they think they are. even the classes, as interesting as they were, weren't really as critical or radical as I would expect a school that touts how much of a "liberal arts university" they are. taking all of this into account, I think I could probably carve out my niche, there just wouldn't be quite as many people with similar interests. also, easy access to boston is a plus. </p>

<p>(I liked Bard but I thought it was a little too small and isolated, and Reed was too much of a hassle to visit so I didn't get the chance, unfortunately. So it's mostly between the other four schools.)</p>

<p>ok, now the complicated/complicating part, financial aid:</p>

<p>I got a full tuition scholarship to Brandeis, plus loans to help pay for room and board. it actually was the package with the most loans.</p>

<p>all of the schools except Brandeis were pretty comparable, after negotiating with the FA offices. for the first year at least, Wesleyan was the least out-of-pocket cost. however, we got conflicting answers about how much it would cost next year when my sister is out of college. eventually the head of FA told us it would be about 5000 more, while the other officers at Wes and at other schools said it wouldn't change so dramatically. my parents disagree about whether we would be able to afford this. my dad says we can as it's still several thousand less than what they were paying for my sister, while my mom says we wouldn't even be able to pay that much for three years because of how much debt we're in already, or something. so while we could probably afford any school if the FA packages were to carry for four years, since there's a gray area around what the package will look like in the future, it's hard to know whether it's really affordable or not. </p>

<p>I find the idea that my parents wouldn't be able to afford a school that would be considerably less than my sister's to be insultingly unfair, considering that my sister also turned down significantly better financial aid options. </p>

<p>Also, I'm staying on the waitlist for Brown, but will probably not accept waitlist positions for Swarthmore and Bowdoin. </p>

<p>alright, so that is my way-too-long post. I'm not sure what else to say except that I'm looking for input for how to go about deciding. right now I'm leaning towards Wesleyan, but I'm still considering all of the schools pretty seriously. thoughts?</p>

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<p>any input is appreciated, guys.</p>

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<p>If it were me with schools that I was somewhat disappointed by, I’d still have to go with the money, especially since you could do worse than Brandeis, so far as the pragmatic value of a degree is concerned. I’d feel seriously jipped by the whole thing though.
Good luck</p>

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<p>Does your sister attend a school that meets full need? It should not be hard at all to figure out what aid should be. If you both are at schools that meet need, the bill when she’s no longer in college should remain the same for just you or decrease just very slightly when she’s out of college. Essentially the EFC would remain the same whether it’s for one or split for two. All bets are off if either attends a school that does not meet need.</p>

<p>Give your parent’s a break, most everyone’s finances have changed a lot in the last year.</p>

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<p>Brandeis is an excellent school with a ton of opportunities. If you can wrap your mind around it, you could have a great time there.</p>

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<p>hmom5, it’s complicated because my sister’s school (U of Richmond) says it is a full need school but it actually isn’t. I don’t understand all of the details about it but I think they told my parents they were eligible for more aid then they received. I do know the amount they’re paying for her is different then the EFC my schools came up with. my sister works a lot to make up some of the difference through a special community service program. </p>

<p>I think overall it would be possible to afford any of the schools I got into, it just might require some financial restructuring.</p>

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<p>jarsilver, your hosts at Brandeis are not emblematic of most students. yes, some students, like at all schools, do drugs. i’m surprised your hosts aren’t involved much outside of classes. again, trust me, that’s not the norm. if you really didn’t good vibes from brandeis, then maybe you shouldn’t go, but I’m 100% certain yours host represent a very minute portion of the Brandeis community.</p>

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<p>Go to Reed with no idea of what to expect. It’ll be a grand adventure in the Pacific Northwest. </p>

<p>Really though, you sound most pleased with Wesleyan, and it sounds like finances are a minor problem at worst. Better to be a little in debt than miserable at a school you’re lukewarm about.</p>

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<p>Although no school is everyone’s cup of tea, I’m surprised by your ambiguous feelings about Brandeis, especially given your particular interests. Its music department is top notch and its Politics department also is excellent. Plus its Film major is rapidly up and coming, regularly hosting east coast debuts of major motion pictures with on-campus appearances from big stars in Q&A format. </p>

<p>Brandeis is in fact a small liberal arts school matched with a first-rate research university, unlike your other choices which are essentially liberal arts colleges. The net of it is you get high-powered professors who actually teach in small classes. And the research opportunities are tremendous. </p>

<p>Granted I’m an enthusiastic alum, but the balance of “artsy and intellectual” as you put it is exactly what caused me to attend Brandeis over choices comparable to yours (Tufts, Colgate etc.). Plus it’s just outside Boston, the world’s greatest college town, but on its own suburban campus.</p>

<p>If you vist Brandeis again, I believe you’ll find that it has an exciting intellectual environment that I would compare to its UAA sister school, U of Chicago (FYI its President is a Brandeis alum) only Brandeis’ is more relaxed and more undergraduate-oriented. Despite their intellectual bent, Brandeis students are down-to-earth, friendly and non-competitive with one another. Plus the theater/music/arts scene is tremendous with tons of performance opportunites.</p>

<p>As you may know, in a recent Forbes national college rankings survey, Brandeis was ranked 15th among research universities and 30th overall among all private univerities and LAC’s–a testament to its focus on undergraduate education. Larger schools, including some Ivies, were ranked much lower. </p>

<p>Despite its small size and relative youth, Brandeis alumni are very distinguished–to name just a few: Nobel Prize winner for chemistry Rod Mackinnon, Fields Medal winning physicist Edward Witten (often called “Einstein’s successor”), 3-time Pulitzer Prize winner Tom Friedman of the NY Times, The Earth is Flat etc; Mitch Albom of Tuesday’s with Morrie (about his Brandeis professor), Martin Peretz, the editor of The New Republic, the Creators/Producers of Friends; actress Debra Messing; Robert FX Sillerman (billionaire businessman–currently owner of American Idol and Graceland) and Christy Hefner, former CEO of Playboy). I understand she may teach at Brandeis in the near future, just as Tom Friedman returned to teach not long ago. Also, although you seem skeptical of its social justice component, Brandeis has a distinguished tradition in that area (Angela Davis, Abbie Hoffman, I could go on, are alums as well).</p>

<p>Forgive my enthusiasm, but as an alum, I think Brandeis is great. Even without the scholarship you’ve been offered, given your choices, it would be an easy decision for me. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>If it’s affordable, I would choose Wes. I agree with you that it doesn’t have the greatest campus, but everyone I’ve known who attended has loved it.</p>

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<p>B77, everything you mentioned was basically why I was at all interested in the first place, and yet I still didn’t really see that first-hand. I went to one really great journalism class, but other than that I didn’t see it as a predominately intellectual environment. I’m sure it would give provide me with a lot of opportunities, but I didn’t feel it was as much of a fit.</p>

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<p>You are completely underestimating Brandeis and this “I find the idea that my parents wouldn’t be able to afford a school that would be considerably less than my sister’s to be insultingly unfair, considering that my sister also turned down significantly better financial aid options.”</p>

<p>makes you sound like a brat. Times have changed.</p>

<p>You can find your own way and your own crowd at Brandeis. That said, if Reed was the same cost, I think you would have really liked it. I also had a friend who passed up the big city (Rice and Houston) for Oberlin and LOVED it.</p>

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<p>Frankly, while all of the schools you are considering are fine academic institutions–I think that Brandeis is academically the strongest in the fields you are interested in. And you have a full ride. I don’t understand why this is not an easy choice. </p>

<p>It sounds to me that your statement “I didn’t really want to apply there in the first place” suggests that you have created a psychological barrier to your liking Brandeis. Why did you not want to apply, and what is it that caused you apply? I’m just speculating, but some people I know (ironically, mostly Jews) think less of Brandeis because of its Jewish sponsorship–as if this separates it from other top institutions. Many of these people either don’t know or have forgotten that Harvard and Yale were Puritan institutions, Brown was Baptist, Princeton was Presbyterian, Columbia–Anglican, Duke is Methodist, etc. etc. Brandeis is no different. It is not a religious institution (in contrast to many Catholic and Fundamentalist colleges and universities). It simply was and still is funded primarily by Jews–originally to counter the quota system which systematically limited Jewish enrollment at other top schools. The incredible thing is how fast Brandeis has risen to the top ranks of academia. True, it is not yet equal to Harvard or Yale in most fields—and it is certainly far less rich than those institutions–but considering it is only 60 years old–it has done incredibly well. </p>

<p>You should think about why it is that you have created this apparent block. Analyze it logically and you might see how lucky you are.</p>

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<p>well yeah, part of it was the jewish thing, but I’m over that now. but still, I find it funny that people on this board seem to worship the idea of a “fit” and yet when I say I didn’t think a school was a fit people think I’m crazy because I got a scholarship to a “good school.”</p>

<p>just to reiterate, it’s full tuition, not a full ride. it’s a difference between paying $6000 + $6000 in loans vs. $14500 + $3500 in loans and work study. a substantial difference, obviously, but it’s not like going bankrupt vs. winning the lottery.</p>

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<p>Tough one. Trust your instincts. </p>

<p>I will say that the size of campus greens can be overrated factor, certainly in CT. As you know, the green will be gone by November and won’t return to April so not a big deal.</p>

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<p>I can see both sides of this. The difference in money isn’t all that great. Your preferences should matter–yes, fit DOES matter. They did something special for your sister. It is worth advocating for yourself if you have a strong feeling of preference for one school or another. </p>

<p>On the other hand, it is true that people are in an entirely different position financially than they were a few years ago. Most people have lost a third to a half of their nest eggs–it is just horrifying. It could be that you and your parents need to sit down and really run the numbers, if they are willing to do so. Also, it is almost certain that your EFC will be drastically higher when your sister leaves college. Also, the fact that you are not madly in love with one of those four colleges may work against you. If your parents had had the feeling all along that you would just die if you didn’t go to Wesleyan, they might feel more inclined to sacrifice. But if each of those schools has some advantages and disadvantages, they might waffle more on putting out extra money.</p>

<p>And then, back to your first point, that it would actually be cheaper to start at Wesleyan for the first year . . . Maybe you can tell them that since it’s cheaper to go to Wesleyan as a freshman, maybe you can start there and promise to transfer if money gets too tight? Then once you get to Wesleyan you can impress them with how much you’re thriving there by getting good grades, knocking their socks off with your maturity, personal growth, total charm, etc.? Then they would feel that they’re getting their money’s worth.</p>

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<p>I’ll put in a word for the college you were most impressed with: Oberlin. It has top academic offerings in your areas of interest. Being in suburban Ohio is not going to be any worse than being in Middletown…in fact, Oberlin is a nicer campus than Wesleyan and is closer to a big city (yes, Cleveland is…not New York, but you’d probably rarely visit either NY or Cleveland, in reality; most students find enough to do on campus, more than enough…) Oberlin is in Ohio, but draws students from the coasts, so in terms of cosmopolitanism, it is not much different from Wesleyan. It does not have any fraternities; it does not have the same kind of social intensity, for better or worse, as the NE liberal arts colleges. But it has smart, artsy, social-justicey students.
Brandeis was about to sell its art museum. Oberlin would never do that.</p>

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<p>

I really didn’t mean to come off sounding entitled or anything, so I’m sorry if I did. I wasn’t really addressing that to anyone in particular. It’s just a sort of frustrating situation.</p>