<p>You clearly do not understand. You serve 5 years active duty (minimum) and 3 years reserve. That is irregardless of being promoted or not and doesn't factor in additional time for law school etc.</p>
<p>So it's five years of full-duty service, followed by three years of reserve duty? What does the reserve duty entail? Serving on the weekends, or...? I've noticed in the paper that some reserve duty officers were sent to Iraq.</p>
<p>You make it seem like it's a big commitment; so big, it is nearly impossible to go into business, or law, after finishing there required tour of duty.</p>
<p>Is it really THAT impractical as you portray it? Many successful businessmen, and lawyers, graduated from West Point, and are great because of their unique West Point experience. They can do it successfully, why can't I?</p>
<p>You make a valid point, however. Clearly, I'm the "five and fly" kind of guy. Just do what I have to do, and leave. But, do not get me wrong. I will put all my effort into it. I'm the guy who gives his all for a task that he says he will do.</p>
<p>You know, these days making a living is getting harder and harder. I need an edge over the other students in my generation. Something NO one else has, or very few have - a Prestigious West Point education. On top of that, they really prepare one for life, and the army, rigorously. After graduating West Point, and finishing the tour of duty, one can face ANY obstacle. Nothing will be tougher than the Point.</p>
<p>My first trial jitters will be inexistent. Or my first board meeting at a big investment company will be a breeze in comparison to doing these drills, with huge drill instructors busting your ass. It's the best way to prepare for the difficult situations in life.</p>
<p>That's my logic. Please provide me with your input. I am not being argumentative here. It's a discussion.</p>
<p>I would question your motivation for going to the academy. But I'll leave that for the others who are actually there to comment on if they want.</p>
<p>UMICH, you can major in Law at USMA. Obviously, that's not a law degree, but it can get you going, pre-law if you will. Yes, you owe and active duty 5 year committment, and then the 3 years afterwards is the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) and you don't have to do anything UNLESS you are recalled to active duty. IRR time counts for nothing with retirement, unlike Reserve or National Guard time unless you are recalled to Active Duty. You are not assigned to a unit, you just still owe the country an obligation should they need to call you up, and yes, people do get called up these days...will they be getting called up in say 2016/17 when you'd be in that status if you get class of 2011, WHO KNOWs. Also, yes, West Point is a great foundation for corporate America, legal America, getting into law school, etc. I would say that law school alon should not be the only (and I don't think it's yours) motivation for attending USMA, but a further goal is fine. Now, here is another option for you as well---after graduating and serving, I want to say 3 years (I think you must be promotable to CPT at the time) you can apply for FLEP- Funded Legal Education Program--and guess what, the Army sends you to and pays for Law School and then you join the JAG Corps (you of course owe the Army more time for them sending you to law school). In JAG you will practice a variety of law--from prosecuting, trial defense, claims, etc. Giving you even more foundation as a lawyer and serving your country at the same time. I have at least one classmate I know of (USMA '02) who did the Law Major, served active duty, including a year in Iraq for OIF II, applied for law school, and is currently attending law school. </p>
<p>I have other friends, and even myself, who thought I wanted to be a lawyer, but changed my mind to do other things...and you know what I am truly enjoying the Army--even with the OPTEMPO, even with one year in combat behind me, and with another year down range to happen come this August.</p>
<p>What I would tell you to consider as you look at this is that you understand FULLY the cost of being on officer and know that for at least your first 3 years (5 if you don't do FLEP) will be spent leading Soldiers in the profession of arms. Depending on the branch you go and what's going on in the world, that may mean patrolling some of the meanest streets of an insurgent held stronghold. Going to USMA, for the entire experience and afterward to truly be worth the time and effort, should be focused on understanding leadership and officership so that when you are entrusted with the lives of America's sons and daughters, you are able to lead them well and with all your heart. Other professional goals are great---heck, after company command, my next goal is getting accepted into the USMA professor program and going to get my Masters and back to teach---BUT, even if that doesn't happen, my true motivations and passions are leading Soldiers and serving my Country. Do you have to be to the same extent as me (bleed red, white, and blue!), no, but you do have to have more motivation towards leadership and officership, and know that it entails self-sacrifice/selfless service, than you do some of your other professional goals for AT LEAST the time you are required to serve. If not, you'll hate it all and see the 4 years at USMA and 5 years Active Duty as a big speed bump in your life. But, if you can combine those things, then go for it, and who knows, you may find yourself stuck on the Army and no longer wanting to go at 5! But even if you do, if you go out and you serve society under the same principles that USMA teaches, then you are still fulfilling the mission of USMA to develop leaders of character dedicated to a lifetime of selfless service to the nation. Just my 2 cents (okay, more like 50, but still...).</p>
<p>PS- You said nothing is harder than the Point...War is tougher than West Point, but West Point fully prepares you to lead in war if you embrace what they teach.</p>
<p>I agree with WP2010. Doesn't sound like the greatest motivation for joining. From what I understand, all service academies are looking for individuals who are looking for career military, and it sure doesn't seem like that's what you want.</p>
<p>Touche. going to the military academy or any academy for that matter just to build a resume for some civie law firm is pretty selfish, especially since it means that you'd be taking a spot in the class from a legit candidate.</p>
<p>btw...</p>
<p>GO ARMY AND GO BUCKEYES !
BEAT NAVY AND BEAT MICHIGAN (oh wait...been there, done that)!</p>
<p>I had originally posted a sarcastic reply, but then thought better of it. And I guess you can't just delete the whole thing.</p>
<p>Gary Avery, Laura Walker, Ben Britt, Dennis Zilinski...The names go on, but that's just 4 of the recent (within the last 2 years) USMA graduates who've given their lives in service to this nation. UMICH, it's fine if you want to go to law school and all, but you're thinking about coming to the academy for the completely wrong reasons. Yes, a degree from West Point is prestigious and yes, it will get you far in life, but you are forgetting one main fact: YOU ARE HERE TO SERVE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF AMERICA. Think of kids you know that are freshmen in HS right now; those are the kids you'll lead to combat. You need to get your head right and focus on the real purpose of West Point, preparing for a career of service to the Army. The taxpayer does not fork out 250 grand for you to come here, do what it takes to graduate, and wait until you can go to law school and use West Point as a stepping stone for your career.</p>
<p>I'm sorry if I seem very harsh here, but I think you need to do some serious soul searching. Are you ready to die for this country? I bet you that was not a question members of the class of 2002 asked when they came to West Point, but when the time came to answer the call, they did not hesitate. Stop thinking about the "prestige" of West Point and its degree and start thinking about whether or not you are worthy to lead soldiers into combat, then you will have an idea if this is the right place for you.</p>
<p>If not, go to Stanford, Harvard, or Yale, I'm sure you'll make a great lawyer, but there is no place for you in this Army.</p>
<p>Hoorah, ScreamingEagle.</p>
<p>Well said, SE</p>
<p>UMICH:</p>
<p>On the 20th of this month the members of our local West Point parents club will be attending a ceremony at the local veterans cemetary to honor the son of one of the parents--a 2001 grad of West Point killed in Iraq in 2003 by an IED.
Think about your motives and make sure they are precisely aligned with the goals and values of West Point before deciding you want to attend---</p>
<p>Gosh, UMICH, you're right...there are a lot of business leaders and lawyers out there who took the five and fly route. I had dinner with over a hundred of them for Founders Day, in New York City. And almost all of them wished that they hadn't gotten out. Sure, they were making six figure salaries, attended plenty of black tie dinners, and were captains of industry. Yes, they didn't have to face going off to Iraq, like I do, like ScreamingEagle does, like the rest of our 875 class mates do. But if you're not ready to go off and die for this country, to put it bluntly, please do not waste your time or our time at the Academy. </p>
<p>You will graduate in time to be one of my platoon leaders while I am a company commander. I do not want any of my soldiers to die because their PL was too wrapped up in applying to law school to pay attention to them. You say you'll give your all, but really, are you ready to truly do so? Are you prepared to have your parents sob as the bugler plays Taps at Arlington, as the commander of the detail murmurs something about a grateful nation as he presents the flag, as the cemetery workers fill the grave? I was and I am. I completed my application days after September 11th. I am an Army brat, and I knew what it meant. They talk about the Long War now, and I am prepared for that. </p>
<p>Your daydreams about the future, with your nonexistent pretrial jitters and your suave demeanor at board meetings worry me. That is your true goal, so go for it. Attend Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford. Choose an even smaller, and more "elite" school for your edge. Or enlist, and get your Army experience with the huge drill instructors that way. But please, for you sake, my sake, and my soldier's sake, rethink your motivation for choosing West Point.</p>
<p><spidermom claps="" solemnly="" for="" the="" wise="" and="" brave="" bzzzt=""> Well said, ma'am.</spidermom></p>
<p>I cringe when I hear people talk about using West Point as a stepping stone in a manner like this.</p>
<p>High optempo, family, and the like may make anyone rethink their motivations and how they plan their lives. Coming into a service academy without thinking there's a decent chance you will make a career out of the military is extremely self-serving.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong about the five and flight route. Surely if I commit to West Point, I will be the best soldier to my capability. I don't do half-assed jobs.</p>
<p>UMICH I would submit that there is something "wrong" with the five and flight route" as it relates to your motivation for attending a service academy. The intent of the academy and the nation whos taxpayers provide that education at no cost to you is to prepare you for a CAREER of professional excellence and service to the Nation AS AN OFFICER IN THE UNITED STATES ARMY. The ARMY isn't looking for people to leave after 5 years, and Im not too keen on paying for it.</p>
<p>I'm not forcing you to pay your taxes.</p>
<p>Thats irrelevent. It's about YOUR motivation and whether it trues up to what the academy expects of you.</p>
<p>I am going to echo Shogun on this.....you SHOULD NOT go into West Point with a five and fly mentality or you won't be able to commit to the job in the manners I've previously mentioned and some wise firsties have commented on (keep up the motivation 2006--that's the kind of LT I will want as one of my PLs!). I don't have a problem with academic excellence as PART of the reason for going to USMA, as that is part of it...and whenever a grad decides to get out, sure, it helps. But if you enter plebe year with the 5 and fly plan, it's a no go...you won't like USMA, you won't like the Army, and those of us who will be in command of you when you get out won't like the attitude of you just wanting to get the time by...Going for the purpose of 5 and fly is plannign half to half ass a job, whether you think so or not...and that's because your motivations are academics, NOT officership and leadership, specifically towards the Army. The Army does offer a lot that you can have goals towards academically and professionally as time progresses, and having those goals are fine. But your motivation, your purpose of attending, must be greater in the realm of service to the country than service to yourself. You don't get assured 5 years these days...go read the west-point.org Eulogoy pages--check out 2002 and see how TEN of my classmates are no longer with us due to both combat, military training, and unforeseen events. Five and fly better not be your motivation if you continue to try for admission, or you'll be one of those guys that HATES their 4 years at USMA. There are great by-products of USMA....but the GREATEST is the privledge of leading and serving Soldiers...if being an Army officer and being willing to LAY DOWN YOUR life in the process isn't on your mind, and your far term goals are your reasons...we don't have room for that in the Army right now. When you were just looking at some of the advantages of USMA for the long term, I wasn't willing to be harsh on your motivation, but more educate you on USMA itself...but the attitude of nothing wrong with 5 and fly BEFORE you enter USMA is wrong, especially in a time of war. While I don't expect, and neither does the Army, for all USMA grads to stay in past five, I DO EXPECT that you wait until you've actually gotten to the Army and spent some time in it (like your first 2-3 years as LT) before you make that decision! You make it prior to that, ESPECIALLY prior to entering, and you're jaded and you're not going to be the "best soldier" cause you're priorities aren't straight. You wanna be a leader, a soldier, an officer, AND get an awesome education, meet some of the BEST people in the world, and go out and put your life on the line for the USA, go to USMA. You want an awesome education to make a bunch of money and be set up, you better study for those SATs and put your application in at Harvard.</p>