<p>I don't know if anyone can tell me more about this but here goes: I was accepted into Wharton '09 and I have heard that nearly half of all undergrad Whartonites choose not to pursue an MBA. The reason for this, people say, is that a Wharton undergrad degree is essentially equal to many MBA degrees out there. Can anyone verify this?</p>
<p>Well, I think if you just use your common sense, you should be able to figure out the answer to your question.</p>
<p>Case in point, if the Wharton undergrad degree was really essentially equal to many MBA degrees out there, then why is it that MBA graduates make more money, on average, than do Wharton BS graduates, even when accounting for experience? Hey, if they were really equal, then employers should be paying them exactly the same, right? Are employers stupidly throwing money away by paying MBA graduates more than Wharton BS graduates, if they're the same? </p>
<p>Or think of it this way. What do you think would happen if Wharton were to institute a brand new policy where every Wharton BS graduate was automatically admitted into the Wharton MBA program. I know, I know, that's never going to happen, but just play along. What do you think is going to happen? How many of those Wharton BS graduates are really going to decline? I don't know either, but I think it's safe to say that it's not going to be half the class. In fact, I would suspect that most of the Wharton BS class would take it. But why would they do that, if it's really the same? Why would they want to spend another 2 years in school and pay 2 more years worth of tuition to get their Wharton MBA's, if it's exactly the same as their Wharton BS? Are they being stupid?</p>
<p>Even if you believe that the Wharton BS and Wharton MBA (or any other top-flight MBA) are the same, the fact is, employers don't see it that way. And that by itself is enough of a reason to get an MBA after the Wharton BS. </p>
<p>I think what's really going on is that some Wharton BS students don't do all that well, such that they know they probably won't be able to get into a top-tier B-school. I do agree that it's not terribly useful to get a no-name MBA (unless your employer is sponsoring you and/or unless it's part-time). Sometimes it's better to do nothing rather than get a no-name MBA. Furthermore, some Wharton BS students get interested in other things, like law school, or getting a PhD, or something like that. So they go pursue other things. But that's a far cry from saying that they believe that their BS is just as good as an MBA.</p>
<p>I must disagree with sakky and question sakky.</p>
<p>First, the disagreement. Employers do not pay you for the number or type of degrees you have -- they pay you for generating more revenue, value, etc., than you cost the employer. If a Wharton undergraduate degree gives you all of the skills necessary to generate the maximum revenue you can generate for your employer, then you do not need an MBA. Many bigtime MBA programs require all students to take basic MBA courses. These courses may be repeats of undergraduate courses. If a Wharton undergrad program gives you a substantial amount of the training you would receive in an MBA program, then there is no need to get an MBA. Given the high quality of the Wharton undergrad program, it would not surprise me if a lot of these students don't think their knowledge and skills will increase dramatically by getting an MBA.</p>
<p>Now the question for sakky. I have read a lot of your prior posts on MBAs and thought your position was that the real benefit of top tier MBA programs was not receiving more education but making connections and developing social skills that will enable you to be first in line with higher paying employers. Now, you seem to be saying that MBAs are valuable because of the quality of the education you receive.</p>
<p>A lot of employers do pay based on what degree you have. You won't find a MBA from Arizona State University making the same as Wharton. Why? Because Wharton is perceived to be the better institution. The thing where they take performance into account is in the bonus.</p>
<p>And to bigmain - you are correct in that you are ultimately getting paid for bringing in more revenue and more value to the company than you cost, but then you have to ask yourself, how do employers know that you are going to be doing that for the company? If you've taken economics, then you should see that there is a strong problem with assymetric market information here. Employers want strong employees. The problem is that every job candidate is going to 'say' that he is a strong employee, whether he really is or not. So how do you know which one really is the strong employee? Obviously you never know with 100% certainty. But one thing you can do as an employer is screen for various kinds of degrees, what school the degree came from, and so forth. </p>
<p>There are also plenty of jobs where it is almost impossible to know whether a person is really generating optimal value. Not all jobs are like sales jobs where things are cut-and-dried and you can easily tell who are the top performers and who aren't. In many jobs, it is extremely difficult to tell who is producing value and who isn't. So what do you do? Again, you are forced to rely on other things, like degrees. Clearly, it's not perfect, but what's the alternative? </p>
<p>The best way to prove this is to note that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If Wharton BS graduates were just as good as, say, Wharton MBA's, then why do Wharton MBA's make more? So are you saying that all those employers who hire Wharton MBA's are being stupid? But if you say that it's all the same, then those employers are being stupid, because they could have saved money by not hiring any MBA's and simply hiring all Wharton BS grads. Hence, they must be stupid, right?</p>
<p>And I would reiterate what I said in other posts - much, if not most, of the value of an MBA is indeed the connections, and not so much the education itself. And the fact is, MBA grads tend to have more valuable connections than do BS grads. That's true for a number of reasons - i.e., that they've been out in the workforce and therefore know more people, that they've had years to hone their social skills and social maturity, etc. </p>
<p>But the bottom line is that it is not true that the Wharton BS is equivalent to an MBA. If that were really true, then the market should have adjusted for that fact a long time ago, and should be paying the Wharton BS people the same as the Wharton MBA people.</p>
<p>It's true that those with a Wharton MBA make more money than those with a Wharton BS, but you're not seeing the full picture, at the margin. You see, if the added value (MR) from another degree is calculated (which would be [Change in TR/1*], then we can see that while the the TR certainly is higher, it the fact that the MR is so low that means the the MC (marginal cost, which, in its economic definition, includes both explicit costs--the cost of tuition--and opportunity cost--in this case, the time that could have been spent working) outweighs any net gain. </p>
<hr>
<p>Q TR MR // TC MC</p>
<hr>
<p>0 0 0<br>
100 80<br>
1 100 80<br>
40 60
2 140 140</p>
<p>So, in conclusion, increasing the quantity of 1 Wharton degree means MR > MC. Increasing the degrees one more in quantity results in MR < MC (<<for some="">>), and is thus not an optimal quantity to purchase.</for></p>
<p>Of course, this schedule could be different. I'm just saying that for some undergrads, not going to get an MBA may make since because of the monetary and opportunity cost.</p>
<p>*since the change in Q is one, for the one degree being added</p>
<p>I think a more appropriate way to put it would be that after 2 years of work experience it is hard to tell a Wharton undergrad from an MBA. The degrees are not equal, but after getting real world experience the Whartonians do not need to pursure an MBA.</p>
<p>Ah, but you guys are not seeing the whole picture either. The fact of the matter is that MBA salaries are not tremendously high right after graduation, but tend to accelerate rather quickly. You should not do calculations post-graduation, but rather 5-10 years after graduation. MBA's from an elite school can put you in a position to succeed. Obviously, whether you actually do succeed or not is up to you, but at least you have the opportunity. Most people in the world are not even given the opportunity. </p>
<p>And I think analyzing things purely in terms of money is not always appropriate. I think that in this case, it has to do with analyzing what you want to do with your life, and doing something you enjoy may be worth losing some money. Take me for an example. Right after high school, I had the opportunity to join the local union (a very well paid longshoreman's union). If I had done that, I would have never needed to go to college, I would have saved all that money and all those years of earning potential in going to college, and I suspect I would have made out better financially if I had done that. Just one big problem - I didn't (and still don't) want to be a longshoreman for the rest of my life. Hence, the ROI in going to college was negative. But I did it anyway. </p>
<p>I would also question the notion that Whartonians don't need to pursue an MBA, for I would posit that many, if not most, Wharton undergrads eventually get one. Are they being stupid? Well, if you say that they don't need to pursue one, then I guess that the many that do must be stupid? </p>
<p>However, I do agree with the general premise that everybody needs to figure out for themselves whether an MBA makes sense. For some people, it does. For others, it doesn't. It has to do with a wide range of factors, ranging from not just money, but also money potential, what you want to do, whether you are happy with the current state of your career, and so forth. I absolutely agree that getting an MBA is not an automatic decision for anybody.</p>
<p>All the above posters have no idea what an undergrad Wharton degree is all about. If you do, then you would know that a graduate of Wharton is called a Whartonite, not a Whartonian.
As an undergrad at wharton, you can pick any of 14 concentrations as your indepth study. If for instance, you chose real estate (like Ivanka Trump) and you work in real estate for a few years and then you think you would like to work in Wall Street, but you lack finance skills. What to do.... you may then go to obtain a MBA in finance and make the transition.
Not everyone who graduates from undergrad Wharton continues in the business world. The students are so talented that many go off to be doctors, lawyers, musicians, entrepreneurs, engineers that they don't need a MBA.</p>
<p>Look, the reality is that a large percentage of Wharton BS graduates eventually obtain an MBA. I don't think anybody would say that they're being stupid or that they're wasting their time and money. The MBA doesn't just serve as a way to get skills. In fact, that's probably only a minor consideration. The real value of the MBA is networking, as well as, to some extent, getting your ticket stamped. </p>
<p>It is of course true that many Wharton BS graduates go into fields other than straight business. The Wharton bachelor's degree is a fully-fledged bachelor's degree and you can use it to enter a wide range of fields, including medicine or law. It's no different from a guy who studies art history as an undergrad and then goes to medical school or law school. And of course, in those kinds of fields, MBA's are not necessary. </p>
<p>However, that doesn't take away from the fact that the Wharton BS degree, by itself, is not a substitute for an MBA. If it were, then all those Wharton BS holders who later go on to get MBA's must be stupidly wasting their time and money.</p>
<p>"The students are so talented that many go off to be doctors, lawyers, musicians, entrepreneurs, engineers that they don't need a MBA."</p>
<p>Doctors and musicians? Engineers?</p>
<p>More like investment bankers, investment bankers, investment bankers :) just kidding...some go into consulting too haha</p>
<p>Well the ideal path nowadays would be to go into i-banking for 2 years, then private equity for a couple of years and then go for an MBA.</p>
<p>Ok so here is some info that might clear things up...</p>
<p>in the 2002 career services survey they surveyed wharton classes of 1985-87, the average whartonite with only a B.S. was making $176,164 salary and $271,314 bonus while the average whartonite who went back to get an MBA was making $144,375 salary and $160,018 bonus...does this mean that a wharton student should not get an MBA and that the Wharton BS is a replacement for the MBA? Of course not! In many industries/careers it is very hard to advance without having an MBA... most people who hold top positions at firms hold MBA's regardless of their BS...in the last 10-20 years the MBA has become an increasingly important degree which will help you move up the corporate ladder more quickly.</p>
<p>oh and btw surprisingly only about a third of wharton grads get an MBA.</p>
<p>Interesting stuff...</p>
<p>After reading through all this stuff...a little question popped up im my head:
Will doing my undergrad at Wharton hurt my chances of getting into the top MBA schools (Wharton, Stan, Harv, Colum, Northwestern,and so on..) in any way?
Do they normally prefer non-biz undergrads?
Thanks.</p>
<p>One of my old roommates did his undergrad at Wharton. His GPA was below 3.0, but still got in to the MBA programs at Chicago, Columbia, and UCLA Anderson (the only 3 he applied to). Didn't seem to hurt him.</p>
<p>I wouldnt say that majoring in bus for undergrad really hurts you. To me, I think they look at work experience, gpa, and gmat. Take whatever degree can help you get that work experience and gpa. Some schools have better career services depts in their business school than liberal arts school, which is why it can be more helpful to take the bba.</p>
<p>alecantekid, was that immediately after he graduated?</p>
<p>alicante, I think we'd both agree that GPA's don't matter a whole lot in business school admissions. Your friend got a good job because of his connections with Wharton, and then he was admitted to a good business school because of that job.</p>
<p><quote>After reading through all this stuff...a little question popped up im my head:
Will doing my undergrad at Wharton hurt my chances of getting into the top MBA schools (Wharton, Stan, Harv, Colum, Northwestern,and so on..) in any way?
Do they normally prefer non-biz undergrads?
Thanks.</quote></p>
<p>I do not believe it will hurt you in anyway. </p>
<p>As for degrees being equal, they are not. However many Wharton Undergrads do not go to grad school for business because the education is not too far of at all. In fact after speaking various representatives of different companies, they told me that often the Wharton Undergrads come in knowing more than most of the grad students. So it really depends.</p>