<p>Perhaps more accurately, bachelor’s degree granting schools generally want students to graduate from their schools, rather than drop out or transfer away.</p>
<p>However, state universities with subsidized in-state tuition would be glad if many of the students graduated as quickly as possible, using up less of the subsidy and making room for more students. Hence they tend to be more generous with credit units for AP tests, college courses taken while in high school, community college courses, etc. compared to private schools.</p>
<p>It seems to me that most of the “crapshoot” complaints come from kids who are indiscriminately applying to the same set of schools as everyone else like them–Ivies, MIT, Stanford and a few others on the basis of prestige. You can see this every single day on this site–“Chance me for all eight Ivies!” and “Harvard doesn’t have my major, but it seems crazy not to apply, right?” There was a kid on one thread recently who visited 31 colleges this summer, and was planning to apply to at least half of them, IIRC. The list was, not surprisingly, a “who’s who” of prestigious schools. My guess is that it’s likely that smart adcoms (which most of them are) can see through kids who have a genuine interest in THEIR school rather than just the general category of “elite universities.”</p>
<p>The schools that she applied to early we’re not the ivies but others in the top 30 - so all fairly competitive with acceptances between 15 and 30 percent. The reach/target identification was done based on her profile and profiles of students accepted at her school last year - not randomly or based on brand name (We eliminated big name schools, in a city even though her sister lives there because she did not think she would fit in.) this classification was done and final list approved by school college counselor. So there was a lot of thought and work that went into it. Maybe ad comes we’re looking for something different. Again I am incredibly thankful for her acceptances and she has some great choices - but the process is still very convoluted</p>
<p>But this may not be the case here, since the OP noted that the less reachy school deferrals (versus reachy school admissions) appeared to be odd. Probably due to “level of applicant’s interest”.</p>
<p>That is correct UCB. We did not visit the one school that she was deferred from and took me by surprise. There was no college visit to her HS. So, I guess the only way to show interest would have been to write directly to school personnel. However my D was quite reluctant to do that, in spite of our goading. Maybe they thought she was “lobbing” one over</p>
<p>I wasn’t referring to you, CUPKSDAD. Just generalizing from what I often see on this site.</p>
<p>My son also had one “huh??” waitlist–a school he was eminently qualified for but that we hadn’t visited and he didn’t have an answer to “why X?” in the essay. It was probably pretty obvious that he wasn’t genuinely interested.</p>
<p>Probably. If an app just suddenly appeared with no previous questions or contacts with admissions, my guess is that is exactly what happened…the admissions counselor simply had many to chose from that had expressed some interest in the college other than a check the box on the common app (if it was a common app school). Had she added herself to that particular school’s mailing list?</p>
<p>For what it is worth, students can go to [CollegeData:</a> College Search, Financial Aid, College Application, College Scholarship, Student Loan, FAFSA Info, Common Application](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com%5DCollegeData:”>http://www.collegedata.com) and look up any college, go to the admissions tab, and find out whether “level of applicant’s interest” is a criterion for frosh admission.</p>
<p>If it is, an applicant should do the usual things to “show interest” like have a visit recorded, check the admissions portal frequently, etc… Applying ED if available is an obvious way to “show interest”, but not appropriate if the school is not the clear first choice (a student may still be very interested in his/her second choice school) or there is need to compare financial aid offers (i.e. whether it is the first choice depends on the net price). Obviously, a “why this school?” essay should focus on why the student is specifically interested in that particular school (as opposed to the city or region the school is in or some other characteristic that the school shares with many others). “Level of applicant’s interest” is kind of a game, where the applicant is trying to guess what the admissions people at that school is looking for.</p>
<p>Honestly, even admissions to top schools not in the top 50 US News rankings are pretty random (at least to me). I was deferred at the University of Pittsburgh while kids in my school with only slightly higher Class Rank, but lower SAT scores, less rigorous schedules and less EC’s have been accepted. I’m not too disappointed (as I was accepted to my top 2 schools and think I’ll get into my 3rd), but I’m still confused as to how my classmates got in but I didn’t.</p>
<p>@brianz87 - After checking your posts, your situation wasn’t a crapshoot - you were just applying to a much more competitive college at Pitt than your friend (Engineering vs. Business). The admissions criteria really does differ among majors, sometimes by a lot. Also, your SAT was 1880, and now you’ve improved it to 2040, so that should greatly help your chances. Submit that new SAT to Pitt, and you should be good!</p>
<p>brianz - Pitt is very driven by rank. They will award merit to people with significantly lower stats, but higher rank. It’s a big qualifier for them. Some schools consider things highly that favor your profile while others don’t.</p>
<p>crossed posts with MisterK who obviously looked for additional back information I did not. I agree that applying to two different programs can make all the difference. These are completely two different admits that can’t be compared.</p>
<p>The admit/reject results for a given school may look like a crapshoot to outside observers (including applicants), but they likely look much more consistent to insiders (admissions people) using specified criteria to meet whatever the school’s admissions priorities are.</p>
<p>@misterK & blueiguana - Very fair points. I’m mostly just confused as to why they don’t admit applicants on the edge into an undecided program or something similar and give them the option to transfer to the college of engineering if they remain in good academic standing. I would say that the lack of information on the average SAT/GPA and whatnot of the individual colleges within universities generally makes the process a crapshoot, if the school doesn’t offer admission to an undecided program. (I did find a PDF online with Pitt engineering student’s average SAT scores and everything well after I had been deferred, but many schools do not offer than for specific majors)</p>
<p>I would love to see much more detail provided from each school relating to the demographics of their accepted applicants.
The number of minority applicants accepted and what their average academic credentials are.
The number of legacy applicants accepted and what their average academic credentials are.
The number of international students accepted …
The number of first generation college students…
The number of applicants accepted by geographic region.</p>
<p>Without knowing the average academic credentials within these subsets of applicants and knowing the average academic credentials of all other applicants who don’t fall within these subsets the statistical likelihood of admission is unknown.
This " mystery" serves the schools, because if the level of detail that I would wish to see was provided I believe the number of applications received would decrease significantly.</p>
<p>Greatkid, while it would be nice to have that info what difference does it really make? </p>
<p>Say a school has an overall admissions rate of of 7%, legacy is 20%, athletes apply early and are semi-recruited get in at I don’t know 75% (because they don’t actually apply unless they are basically told they will probably get in), 1st gen gets in at 15%, Wyoming gets in at 100%. </p>
<p>You aren’t from Wyoming and you aren’t an athlete. The fact is if you want to attend this college your chances are very small. But you knew that from the overall admit rate already. So what? Your chances are zero if you don’t apply. </p>
<p>My older son got into Harvard and wait-listed at Harvey Mudd. I actually think HM knew that it wasn’t that good a fit for him. My younger son’s acceptances exactly tracked admissions rates. If the school accepted more than 20%, he got in (including an EA school that was much more selective for RD), if it was less he didn’t. We’d thought he’d get more random results than he did.</p>
<p>Some of the colleges prefer not to release such information because it would result in political problems.</p>
<p>It could also be the case that they want more potential applicants to believe that they have an increased chance based on one of those characteristics, even though the preference for such a characteristic is smaller than generally believed (or may be nonexistent).</p>
<p>"Frustrating to see kids with similar or lower profiles get into schools where she was deferred but am sure there are other parents/students saying that about her profile in schools where she was accepted. There has to a better (and hopefully a more transparent) way to this process. "</p>
<p>Maybe you should just not pay attention to where other-kids-not-your-own get in. There’s a concept. And certainly not pay attention to other kids’ stats. Ew. Tacky.</p>
<p>The alternative would be the system that exists at my alma mater, McGill University in Canada. There are published minima for admissions. For an American applicant to Life Sciences, the minimum is a 670 in each section of the SAT I and two SAT II’s. Also, no grade lower than an A- in grades 10, 11 and first semester grade 12. If an applicant has one B or one SAT score of say 620, they are rejected. Some applicants complain about how rigid and unfair this admission practice is. </p>
<p>So it may be a choice between a “crapshoot” and a rigid “unfair” process. Which would you prefer?</p>
<p>And mathmom is exactly correct. What’s the point of knowing the admissions rates of groups-you-are-not? So what if Wyoming has 100% acceptance? If you’re not from Wyoming, who cares? </p>
<p>It’s laughable when people look at elite schools with low admissions rates and try to parse it out. Look - it’s low. That’s really all you need to know. It’s low, so therefore all you can do is put your best foot forward and hope for success. You’re not going to do one thing differently if your chances are 5% vs 10% vs 15% vs 20%. It’s pointless in decision-making.</p>
<p>Pizza girl - What is tacky about comparing one to their peer group? Why publish scores or averages for a school if not for comparison purposes? I am not singling any kid out and I acknowledged that kids with better scores than mine were deferred from her reach - would feel the same way about her profile. There is no need to jump on your moral high horse here</p>