What am I doing wrong? What gives?

<p>Advice from a person who had the exact same problem:
You need to develop some standards. No, I do not mean standards of attractiveness, but rather standards of communication. Along with developing such standards, develop some self-respect. If a female does not try to make the time for you, then she simply is not worth it. Do not keep trying, because you will only make yourself look worse. Just move on to someone else. Make sure she wants to talk to you as much as you want to talk to her.</p>

<p>It is exactly like a job interview. Here is a scene (roughly recapitulated) taken from House:
Job Applicant is waiting in her seat.
House: Sorry, the spot is filled.
Job Applicant: (stands up)... wait... I called at noon to confirm.
House: I filled the spot after that.
Job Applicant: But Dr. Wilson...
House: Look, do you think you think that arguing with me will free up the spot or make me want to give it to you?</p>

<p>Just let it go. In fact, sometimes if you let it go, the girl may actually change her mind. It has happened quite a few times with me:</p>

<p>girl: Sorry, I can't make it tonight. I have to go to dinner with someone else. Can we go some other time? (This was the third time it happened)
nspeds: Instead of my throwing times at you, just call me when you want to go out. I am always here.
girl: Okay, okay, I'm reallly sorry. It is just that this blah blah blah
nspeds: Okay. I am busy right now. I will talk to you later. Bye.</p>

<p>Well, we ended up going out a week later. I stopped seeing her, though. It turned out that while she fulfilled my standards of communication and attractiveness, she failed my standards of intelligence;)</p>

<p>katho11: normally i don't invite myself to places. i don't like being in places i'm not invited to. i did do that this time though. why? this is some of the stuff i left out in the original post. i was talking to my friend online at the time. showing him exactly the kind of luck i get when inviting girls out. and when i told him what she said, he told me to ask her if i could keep her company. now at this point i would have stopped. i would have given up and just let it go. why did i even listen to my friend? because it just seemed that maybe i wasn't being aggressive enough. but from reading all the posts here i understand now that i was being too aggressive. and katho you are right in saying that you don't know me. that guy you are describing is nothing like me.</p>

<p>BP, read my post above. I do not want you to miss it.</p>

<p>In seeing your post #40 and looking at your back posts, here's what I'm guessing:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Girls realize that since you work, live off campus, have a long commute and are going to school fulltime, you don't have much time for them. Consequently, girls at your college who are looking for a boyfriend may want a boyfriend who's on campus and who have the time to do much more with them.</p></li>
<li><p>You go to school in NYC. I've heard that people in NYC can be picky about where people live who they date. For instance, if they live in Manhattan, they may not want to date anyone outside of Manhattan because of the commuting time. This, too, could be hurting you.</p></li>
<li><p>Because of your schedule and the fact that you live off campus in a college that's not a commuter college, and you also don't have time for college ECs, you aren't able to get to know college girls by hanging out with them in clubs or at the dorms. You end up asking girls out in a way that to the girls may seem too early or overly aggressive. Meanwhile, to you, because you don't have much time to just hang out, you feel that you've known them for a while.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>You might do better if you can meet girls who are living off campus and commuting to your college because they'd probably have schedules similar to yours.</p>

<p>However, if you can find the time to join any co-ed EC at your school, that would probably give you much more of a chance to meet potential girlfriends.</p>

<p>nspeds: i understand what you're saying and you are right. as i've said before i am moving on. communication and self-respect. i actually didn't even think about the latter but now that you have mentioned it i came off i should have stopped a while ago when she wasn't showing interest anymore. we learn all the time and i've learned from this.</p>

<p>I am glad I could help.</p>

<p>Females can sense a lack of confidence not just by what you say, but also by your body language. Once you build that self-respect, your confidence rises. It is quite amazing how many people are attracted to the confidence; the bad side is that you do not want to appear arrogant.</p>

<p>Northstarmom: For the first couple of weeks I was in the crew team. It wasn't co-ed but that's besides the point. I kept getting home real late. And finally when practices started getting too early I just had to get out. No way I could manage something like that. I wish I could do school clubs because I definitely would. But those couple of weeks I was practicing with the team were pretty cool because I was actually meeting different people and getting to know them. Even then it was still different because most of the guys would be able to hang out after practice while I had to go back home and eat my dinner at 10pm. btw my school is 1hr away from where i live and that's only because i have to take the bus. if i had a car i'd be there like in 15 minutes.</p>

<p>BP,
Most clubs won't take anywhere near as much time as a sports team takes. Many meet only weekly or every other week. Check for something co-ed that interests you and fits into your schedule.</p>

<p>If you happen to be religious, joining a religious-oriented club especially may be a nice way to meet someone because assuming you're not working on your day of worship, you and a date could go to church and then could have coffee or something. I'm guessing that a girl who's involved in a place of worship might be a good match for you since you seem to be very hard working and serious about academics. </p>

<p>When I was in grad school, one of my friends and her twin sister had done their undergraduate work at your college, and had commuted from their NYC home in, I think, the Bronx. They both were active in their church and serious about their studies, and I am fairly sure both married guys who nice guys who also were serious minded -- the type of person whom you seem to be.</p>

<p>there was a club fair in the beginning of the school year. i did check the clubs out while i was in work actually. i just happened to get sent to that building they were holding the fair at. i looked around quickly to see anything that caught my eye. to be honest, none interested me.</p>

<p>i'm open to religion but not very religious though. i've actually gone to a couple of religious events where i see some girls that leave me going dayum. but i couldn't do that. although i'm sure most of the girls have strong moral values i just can't deal with religion in general. whether going to mass or reunions. it's just not for me.</p>

<p>btw while i do work hard at everything i do and put my academics in place of everything else i just can't help wonder if it's even worth it if i can't even enjoy a social life. forget who said it but it went a little like this, "is it worth living a life of misery than to not live at all?" rather extreme but i think you get the idea.</p>

<p>"I looked around quickly to see anything that caught my eye. to be honest, none interested me."</p>

<p>You're giving up way to quickly. I just looked at the clubs that your university offers. It's quite a varied and interesting group. Surely, there's something that would interest you and that you could make time for. I've been a college prof, and I know that except for sports and things like the school paper or band, most clubs don't take that much time.</p>

<p>I even notice that your college has some kind of club that plans outings that are done on weekends. That could be a wonderful way of meeting new friends and potential dates.</p>

<p>You don't have to be all work, no play. It is possible to do your academics and have a social life, but you'll need to be flexible and have an open mind.</p>

<p>And, heck, you're at a college that's affliated with a religion. Seems that it shouldn't be that much of a stretch for you to check out a religious-affiliated club. If you couldn't stand religion at all, you would be attending a different college. Also, just because someone is in a religiously oriented club doesn't mean that they are religious fanatics or anything like that. Again: Open your mind.</p>

<p>Also, if all that you're doing is classes and work, many girls --including smart, hard working ones -- would find you to be very dull.</p>

<p>yes my school is religious. that isn't an issue for me. i never said i was against religion. i'm open to it. and i discuss it about weekly with a guy i know. but being a part of religion or anything of that sort is something i won't do. that's not to say i can't stand religion because then i definitely wouldn't be in the school i am in. like i've said i am open to it just not going to join anything religiously oriented.</p>

<p>and see this is what i don't get. it's either i give up too quickly or i'm trying too hard.</p>

<p>btw what clubs are you talking about. (you can tell me the names i already know where to look.) i know there is a large variety of clubs. i never said there wasn't but the ones i saw at the club fair did not interest me at all. maybe they weren't all there although there was close to a hundred there. i'm not looking for any groups that focus on politics, ethnicity, religion, or academics (this is a lot of the stuff i saw at the fair). i will check out that weekend activity club. i did not hear about that but i'll give it a check on monday.</p>

<p>as for that last comment, what am i supposed to do then? cut work and cut classes? i'm already short on cash (i actually have a donation service running to help pay for my tuition. that's what my work money is going towards - my tuition. sucks being poor but sacrifices have to be made in a society that revovles around money.)</p>

<p>
[quote]

Rather, because I'm going to link you to several articles written by a man who, at the ripe old age of 31, has already slept with well over a thousand women. He addresses the exact questions you have been asking throughout the thread;

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I didn't need to go to his pathetic website to conclude that he's a douche. The only people worse than man-whores like him are the moronic women that sleep with them (or possibly the sad little boys/men that worship them). </p>

<p>Anyway, BP-TheGuy88, if you aren't normally like that, then I really have no idea why girls keep turning you down. Maybe you're just going after the wrong type? Without knowing anything more than you've posted here, I'm stumped. </p>

<p>Oh, and sorry for assuming that you're like that guy I compared you to earlier. Now that you cleared up that you were just taking a friend's advice, I see where you were coming from more.</p>

<p>"
and see this is what i don't get. it's either i give up too quickly or i'm trying too hard."</p>

<p>When it comes to clubs, you gave up too quickly. You joined one-- crew-- that had a very demanding schedule that understandably, you couldn't handle with your job and academic and commuting responsibilities. However, you now are insisting that Fordham, which has many clubs, has nothing else that interests you or would fit in your schedule. You haven't given the clubs much of a chance. Meanwhile, the clubs are your best chance to make friends and find dates.</p>

<p>When it comes to girls, you tried too hard by repeatedly asking out someone who kept turning you down. If you'd kept trying out clubs the way you kept asking that girl out, more than likely, you'd have found a club by now that you enjoy and that would fit into your schedule.</p>

<p>"as for that last comment, what am i supposed to do then? cut work and cut classes?"</p>

<p>No. You are supposed to find some club to join that would fit into your schedule. At least, if you want to make friends and have dates at your college, that's what to do. Otherwise, it will be very hard for you to make close relationships while commuting to a college that you describe as primarily a residential one.</p>

<p>"i'm open to it. and i discuss it about weekly with a guy i know. but being a part of religion or anything of that sort is something i won't do. that's not to say i can't stand religion because then i definitely wouldn't be in the school i am in. like i've said i am open to it just not going to join anything religiously oriented."</p>

<p>Your choice. Such groups, however, tend to have lots of females, including many who'd probably appreciate a hard working guy with your kind of values when it comes to academics. I have met several people who met their spouse through such groups.</p>

<p>Given your post this spring that described the below financial aid offers that you got, I'm curious about why you're working when it seems that Fordham gave you excellent financial aid. I'm also curious about why you chose to commute when U Vt offered you a wonderful aid package that would have allowed you to dorm, and even to carry less $ in loans than Fordham.</p>

<p>"In terms of Fin-Aid offers here is what I know:
Uni. of Vermont
Fin-Aid= 38,735 (4,065 loans)
Cost= 36,542</p>

<p>Fordham Uni.
Fin-Aid= 35,957 (7,575 loans)
Cost= 35,977"</p>

<p>Again, the clubs I saw at the fair did not interest me at all. I spent like 15 minutes looking around, the place was packed but I could still see some of the boards and displays up. And none of the clubs there seemed interesting. It wasn't an issue about time, the clubs at the fair just didn't interest me. What am I supposed to do? Force myself to do something that doesn't interest me?</p>

<p>When I went to orientation I was told that all the clubs would be at the club fair. Naturally I figured it would be perfect to see what's available. It seems, at least from looking at the school's website, that there were quite a few clubs not present. The ones that don't fall into the four areas I mentioned earlier I will look into.</p>

<p>btw you said that if all i did was work and classes that girls would find me dull. yet if i joined a religiously oriented group there would be girls that would appreciate my value in academics? so all it takes is one club for me not to be dull? or would they appreciate my value in academics but still find me dull?</p>

<p>In other threads, you've expressed the concern that you have difficulty talking with people on the phone and in person. That's because you're not involved in anything except school and work. </p>

<p>If you were in a club -- almost any club -- that would give you more to talk about. You'd get to know the people, and also could about the things that are going on in the club from who's getting elected to club offices to events that the club is planning.</p>

<p>Anyway, the fact that in a 15 minute overview, you couldn't find any clubs at Fordham except crew to interest you indicates that you have a very narrow view of things, and that is a turnoff for other people. People -- including girls -- tend to like people who are open to new experiences, not people with closed minds and who seem to have negative personalities.</p>

<p>Someone who'd see the list of clubs and get excited and interested would seem like a fun person to be with. Someone who takes a quick look and decides that nothing is worth bothering with sounds narrow minded, dull and like a wet blanket.</p>

<p>My overall advice is that if you want to have a social life, then get off the pitypot. You may be low income, but right now, you've got a wonderful chance to go to a decent college and to eventually advance to a higher socioeconomic level. Your life is on its way up. Fordham also offers excellent social opportunities that you can choose to take advantage of or you can keep complaining.</p>

<p>If you're at Fordham Lincoln Center, this is what I found on the website:
"The Commuting Students Association is the governing body that represents and serves the commuting students of Fordham College at Lincoln Center. Through its programs and services, CSA helps commuting students to interact with one another and the rest of the University community.</p>

<p>CSA sponsors many different programs, including CSA Coffee Breaks, which provide for commuters a break from classes and studying and a chance to connect with other commuters. CSA also publishes a monthly newsletter, "The Connection," which informs the commuting student body about University events and other important news.</p>

<p>All commuting students are members of CSA, but the organization also includes a six-member executive board - president, vice-president, secretary, treasurer, and two program coordinators - and a general assembly, which are representatives from the different class levels. General assembly seats are available to members of all classes. Meetings are held twice a month and are open to all students.</p>

<p>If you are interested in being a member of the CSA or in attending one of our meetings, or if you have an idea for a program or a service we can provide, please stop by the CSA office in Lowenstein 204B."</p>

<p>I wish those were the numbers. Little did I know that there was more to it. The financial aid did not cover everything at Fordham. And in fact some of it got taken away just recently. Why didn't I go to UVM? Well I did visit. Simply didn't like it. I spent a weekend there. Got to see the city (I don't see how in the world Burlington can even be called a city. I guess maybe because I'm from NYC but that is just a pathetic excuse for a city). Got to hear feedback from the guy I roomed with for the weekend (he was in his senior yr and graduated from my HS actually so he was able to compare and contrast UVM to what I was used to in NYC). Another thing is that I couldn't stand the weather but I mean that wasn't really that important. Just the atmosphere there didn't attract me. The classes didn't seem to be all that intriguing. I had a couple of friends actually go there. None of them seem to be talking about how great it is over there. It's more like ehh it's alright. Definitely different from some of my friends that go to pennstate, syracuse, and some suny schools.
Fordham for me had everything that I was essentially looking for, except the dorming. And when I did apply to Fordham, I wasn't even considering it as a school I would go to. They e-mailed me saying I could apply for free so I said what the hell I got nothing to lose and I applied. When I applied it asked me if I would commute or dorm. I checked "commute." I thought that if it really came down to it I could just commute because it would just be too much money if I didn't. This of course was still early in the application process. Then when I started getting my letters back just about all the schools accepted me except the one I wanted to get into. I had to make a choice and looking back at what I was looking for in a college Fordham had it all. What really did it for me was when I went to visit the campus. I had always passed by it but never really stepped inside (once or twice but that's it). I really loved the the environment. Still love it actually. It feels like a real nice community. And even with its location in the Bronx I don't even feel like I'm in the Bronx when I'm in campus. It's when I step outside of campus I tend remember where I'm at. So I ended up choosing Fordham thinking it wouldn't be that big of a deal if I had to commute. I basically kicked myself in the balls on that one. But even then I don't think they would have allowed me to commute because they were short on space. There were a couple of guys on the crew team that I know that lived in NJ that didn't get accepted for dorming. Ended up having to share an apartment together right off campus. So if they didn't get rooming I doubt I would have. They had to convert doubles into triples this year and singles into doubles. That's how bad it got. </p>

<p>I thought about transfering out of Fordham but I'm not going to screw up the kind of package I already have by going to another school that probably won't give me nearly as much in aid. Not to mention, it isn't the school itself that is the problem. Just the commuting. I did sign up for dorming so I just have to see if any spots become available.</p>

<p>btw the work i have is horrible for the work i do. i mean maybe if i were doing filing and office work i could understand. but 8 bucks an hr for a computer technician is absolute crap. but on the bright side it does help me since it gives me experience in a field i'll probably want to get into. i've heard that some of the guys that work in that IT department were former graduates of Fordham and got hired after working the same way I am now. at the very least it's still work experience for me. my second job as a tech so it's looking good so far.</p>

<p>Actually crew didn't interest me either. How did I even end up doing crew? Well during orientation I was walking out the building to the next orientation event and i see these guys saying sign up for crew, no experience needed. I've never had crew experience and I figured it's something that would keep me active on campus. so I went and signed up. went to the practices up to the week the coach started making them at 6am. i took on something that i had no real interest in but decided to join anyways just to stay active on campus. i go to rose hill just to let you know.</p>

<p>btw the negative personality isn't something that is going to change right now. it doesn't happen over night. i can assure you though that i am working on it. i already know my negativity has been an issue for a while. doesn't mean i'm boring or anything but it has stopped me for joining social activities in the past. the only reason i even bothered joining some activities in high school was because of college applications. just to have something to put down. absolutely none of the acitivities that i did, aside from the computer club (i wouldn't even call it a club, it was more of a job than anything else), i didn't take any joy in the other activities. the national honors society i was in was a bunch of crap. so was the art club which didn't even last a month. and i cant remember what other clubs. the first impression you get is that i'm negative and boring. that's not the case at all though. when i'm with my friends, the ones that i've known for a while, or managed to connect with during high school, i'm as regular as any other person. the fact that i don't do any activities or clubs doesn't get in the way of anything. but no one really knows that when they don't know me.</p>

<p>no i'm not fat. if you would have read you would have known that between commuting, classes, and work i have no breaks. that's at least 8-10 hrs sometimes without anything to eat. you try going an entire day like that. you're going to want to eat.</p>