<p>Harvey Mudd is not a safety. It's more difficult to get into than Cornell (for Californians anyway). I have answered this question about small engineering schools before so you should do some searches on this forum. Three of them are in Pennsylvania. Besides Bucknell and Lehigh which have already been mentioned there is Lafayette. In general, though, safety schools for engineering are either tech schools like Case Western or large public universities. If you don't want to go too far from home you might look at University of Maryland. One other consideration: many of the Catholic schools have engineering. Two that come to mind are Santa Clara and Villanova.</p>
<p>OP, you need to cut down on a bunch of those reaches, particularly the ones w/o strong engineering (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Dartmouth, etc.). Additionally, you may want to set your ego aside momentarily and re-evaluate what type of schools are really a match (Mudd, Northwestern, and Rice are only "matches" for a select few ultra-accomplished students).</p>
<p>Finally, here are a few safer options to examine: U of Rochester, U of Pittsburgh, RPI (less nerdy than one might think), WPI, Georgia Tech</p>
<p>The problem is that most of the schools that have strong engineering programs and liberal arts are either a) large publics, or b) reaches for all but the strongest students. You may need to think about your priorities and be a little more flexible. [edit: I just noticed that ricegal basically already said the same thing, but worth emphasizing]</p>
<p>As I said in my earlier reply, I am interested in and will be applying to the Ivies that may not be as strong in engineering because I am not necessarily interested in only engineering powerhouses. All I am interested is a school that has a somewhat decent engineering program that I would fit into, reason being that I WILL be going to grad school, and when I enter the workforce, employers will not be looking at my undergrad nearly as much as my grad education. But why should I even bother with Yale/Brown/Dartmouth/etc.? Because I visited, talked to students, researched extensively, and found that I LOVED them. Now, I know that I will be fine wherever I go, even at a freakishly huge school like OSU or another school not exactly to my tastes, but must I settle? </p>
<p>Lesser Perfesser:
Why, exactly, do I "need" to cut down on a bunch of my reaches? If I am willing to do the work, who are you to say what I need? Admission to the top schools is nigh impossible, and it necessitates applying to many to have a shot at getting into one or two. </p>
<p>Regarding my "ego," you do not know me; do not judge me. I put HM, NU, and Rice as matches based on comments from this site. I have looked at chance threads for people with similar qualifications as me, and repliers generally place these schools as matches. It isn't ego if I'm just misinformed. Also, NU has an admit rate of 30%, HM has 38%, Rice 25%. These numbers are not nearly to the level of competition at HYPSM, so wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they are indeed one level of admission chance less? Besides, for scores and GPAs at these places, I am approaching or above the 75% mark. </p>
<p>Not to mention that I am CONSTANTLY second-guessing myself as to my actual chances of getting in at any of these places. That is the very reason why I started this thread! I want to have decent safeties to fall back on, because I acknowledge that I am by no means guaranteed to get into any of my Reach or Match schools.</p>
<p>*Also, NU has an admit rate of 30%, HM has 38%, Rice 25%. These numbers are not nearly to the level of competition at HYPSM, so wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they are indeed one level of admission chance less?
*
It depends on how self-selective the school actually is. Harvey Mudd only attracts (or seems to) very qualified students so it has a 30% (not 38) admissions rate. This despite it having the highest avg SAT score among LACs and very high overall. Also, do to over-enrollment this year, it will only get harder in the years to come. </p>
<p>Note - posting your actual stats could help us determine the validity of your R/M/S claims.</p>
<p>Sorry, I got my numbers out of the 2007 edition of PR's 361 Best Colleges. The stats have probably changed by now. </p>
<p>I didn't post my stats because I'm not a fan of chance threads among potential top-tier school students, as it is impossible to accurately chance someone for top schools, other than saying "Well, you have as good a chance as anyone..."</p>
<p>But here you go:</p>
<p>User Name: Eravial08
Gender: F
Location: Ohio
College Class Year: 2012
High School: Public
High School Type: sends some grads to top schools
Will apply for financial aid: Yes</p>
<p>Academics:</p>
<p>GPA - Unweighted: 3.90
GPA - Weighted: 4.40
Class Rank: top 5 students
Class Size: 233</p>
<p>Scores:</p>
<p>SAT I Math: 770
SAT I Critical Reading: 730
SAT I Writing: 750
ACT: 33
SAT II Math Level 2 (IIC): 720
SAT II Physics: 760
SAT II Latin: 690</p>
<p>Extracurriculars:</p>
<p>Significant Extracurriculars:
Horseback Riding - Competitive Barrel Racing/Pole Bending - 11 years (my hook)
Trombone - Symphonic Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band - 8 years
Latin Club - 4 years
Impact (political activism group) - 4 years</p>
<p>Leadership positions:
Band: Squad Leader 2 years, Band Council 1 year
Impact: President 2 years
Gay-Straight Alliance: Co-founder, VP 1 year, P 1yr</p>
<p>Athletic Status - list sport and your level: Horseback riding - unaffiliated with school, but I am competitive in large/National organizations (my hook)</p>
<p>Volunteer/Service Work: Humane Society weekly volunteer</p>
<p>Honors and Awards: Cleveland Technical Society Outstanding Junior
Many horseback riding awards; most prestigious: AQHA Congress Youth Pole Bending Champion 2005
Rotary 4-Way Speech Competition Club Champion, District</p>
<p>College Summer programs:
Ashland University Summer Honors Institute: 2005- 2 weeks (Creative Problem Solving, Philosophy), 2006- 1 week (Physics)
Hiram Genomics Academy 2006
Work/Paid Internship in Environmental Engineering Dept. at Case Western Reserve University - 2007</p>
<p>"I WILL be going to grad school"</p>
<p>How do you know that you will not change your mind? Grad school is 5 years away for you and it is a little disturbing that one would have their eyes set on a prize that is based on a prize...</p>
<p>Eravia, let me be give you some feedback on your stats, just as I would for anyone. (I'm not excited or upset or anything...)</p>
<p>Your SAT scores are pretty good. They are about average for Mudders. (Your ACT is average for Mudders as well). Your SATII's however, are a bit low by Mudd's standards. 65+% (I can't remember the exact figure....atomic help me out here) of admitted students have 800's on MathIIC. In addition, these students also have very strong SATII science scores in the 780-800 range. This is not horrible for you though.</p>
<p>As you say, we do not know you. Perhaps there is something about you that makes you stand apart from the applicants that is not represented in numbers. Often times, this is the case for Mudd-admits. Not everything is numbers (and as you know that is a double-sided sword).</p>
<p>You have a good shot at Mudd. Because you are a female I'd say you have a 50% chance without advanced maths and 60% with. If you were male I'd say 35% and 45% chance, respectfully. (You provided no coursework information and often times this is the deal maker/breaker)</p>
<p>Sorry about the invigorated Mudders on this board that are slightly offensive to you. We are proud to be Mudders and we'd like to see that our hard work accounts for some respect. (In the tech work-force it does but laymen know nothing of it)</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Feel free to apply to every Ivy League school - be my guest. Go ahead and ignore all the advice from people on this thread, many of whom are no doubt actual engineering students and graduates. </p>
<p>You are obviously an intelligent individual, OP, but there are thousands of students around the country with similar stats who are in the same boat. All I am saying is that it makes more sense to apply to a maximum of 10-12 schools (and that is still on the high end), with varying levels of selectivity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"I WILL be going to grad school"</p>
<p>How do you know that you will not change your mind? Grad school is 5 years away for you and it is a little disturbing that one would have their eyes set on a prize that is based on a prize...
[/quote]
I agree. You can't say for sure you'll be going to grad school at this point (especially in engineering). The dropout rate for engineering majors is fairly high compared to other majors. Also, not having taken any engineering courses yet, you don't really know what to expect. Most people decide on going into industry or taking grad courses in their late junior or early senior year of college, because earlier you won't know if you'll have enough interest in doing that.</p>
<p>You don't need a graduate degree do something "worthwhile" in engineering. It's perhaps the best field for somebody with just a bachelor's degree. Having internship experience is probably just as important for getting a good job after graduation. </p>
<p>I would recommend choosing an engineering school with better reps mainly because nobody can be sure they'll be going to grad school while they're still in high school. It's impossible to predict. Better engineering schools means better networking opportunities which means better job opportunities. While the quality of education won't be too different, the people you meet will be. And that's going to make a world of difference when you're looking for your first job.</p>
<p>If you really do love those other schools and you're willing to sacrifice a few career opportunities, then go for it. The best ivy with a good liberal arts program and a good engineering program is probably Columbia.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
<p>Sigh. Once again, how could anyone consider the LAC ranked #1 in selectivity as a good safety??? There aren't even 15 schools in the country that can be named that are harder to get into than Mudd.</p>
<p>I just wanted to point out that your horseback riding will not be a hook. It is good, but it isn't going to make much of a difference in your chances.</p>
<p>Trust me, I wish it did (I compete at the International Grand Prix level for SJ, invited to Buenos Aires for the Nations Cup this fall etc), but it isn't given any of the same weight that a "regular" sport such as LAX, soccer, football, etc.</p>
<p>Have you looked into UVA Engineering? I had a friend who went there originally for engineering and although he switched to a poli sci/econ major, I heard good things about it.</p>
<p>I see how it would sound weird saying that I will be going to grad school. I mean that I plan to attend grad school and I fully realize how going to a lesser engineering undergrad school may necessitate my going to grad school, an outcome that I understand and accept. I have spoken with many engineers and CWRU engineering professors, a few with kids at Princeton and Yale, about my college plans and wishes, and they supported my list of colleges. I even spoke to the Dean of engineering at Case in an effort to assure myself that my college choices are good. I've made my choices under the guidance of professors and engineers whom I know and respect. </p>
<p>Rocket DA:
I know my SATs aren't that impressive. I'm retaking this fall. I'm not submitting my ACT. My Math IIC was the equivalent of a prelim practice test. I hadn't reviewed any of it and had learned the material over a year before I took the test. I was busy with finals and other SAT II's leading up to it, and I almost cancelled the score, but figured I'd use it as practice. I will be retaking, and barring any unforeseen negative circumstances, I expect at least 780, if not 800. I am still OK with my Physics score, since I had to self-teach the last third of the book in a span of a week and a half. </p>
<p>Math/Sci coursework (all As):
Honors Bio 9
Honors Chem 10<br>
Honors Physics 11 (and effing sweet recommendation from physics teacher)
AP Bio 12
Honors ChemII 12
Honors PhysicsII 12</p>
<p>Algebra I Honors 7
Geometry Honors 8
Algebra II Honors 9
Pre-Calc Honors 10
AP Calc 11 (4 on AP exam... sucks, I know. Probably won't mention that.)
AP Prob and Stats 12</p>
<p>Both are the absolute highest tracks my school offers. There are no higher or equivalent courses available in Math/Sci. I know my math track is pretty average compared to most applicants, but had I gone any faster I would have had no math senior year, which is just kind of dumb. </p>
<p>Wyldfae:
The riding I do is very different from Grand Prix stuff. Mine is equivalent to rodeo; most people who are competitive are from the West, not including California. I'm talking Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, not very high yielding states to selective colleges. The vast majority of my peers in riding are either A) homeschooled on a farm, B) High school dropouts or C) just-barely-high-school-graduates. Out of a couple hundred competitors I know, I know THREE who go to college, all of which are at open-enrollment schools. The academic success falls as the rider becomes more competitive. The English riding populous is very different. Plenty of English riders are good students and are academically talented. It is much, much rarer to find a western contester of the same academic caliber. </p>
<p>Also, I've been doing this for most of my life and commit endless hours to it every week. I am passionate about my riding beyond almost anything else, which is why I see it as a fairly solid hook.</p>
<p>Okay, I see your point there. Interesting. I didnt think about it from that perspective. Hope it works out for you.</p>
<p>Still Eravial08 I would suggest you try to focus your efforts on the schools on your list which have really good engineering programs.</p>
<p>The only two schools on your list that are safeties are the last two. A lot of high school students, I am discovering lately, really have no idea how competitive admission has become to schools like Northwestern, Rice, etc. Even if you raise your SAT scores, at some of these schools you will be competing for admission against students who took Calc BC in 10th or 11th grade and university math courses senior year.</p>
<p>Given that, you need to pare down the reach list and add several more matches and a safety that you like.</p>
<p>I'm curious about the horseback riding. I think the western rodeo riding is a great addition to your application, but if you are so serious about it, why are you applying to so many schools that don't have a horse within an hour's drive? Do you plan to give up all equine activities, even casual riding?</p>
<p>Many LACs have 3-2 or cross-registering programs for engineering majors.
Wesleyan, for instance, has 3-2 with Caltech and Columbia and at Wellesley, you would have the possibility to take courses at MIT.</p>
<p>Tufts is probably also a match for you and it seems to fit your desires in a college.</p>