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But you might have to live on Staten Island and possibly catch cooties. Nothing is worth THAT.</p>
<p>Legendofmax, Tell us how you’re doing?
Teeth OK?
GF?
Job OK, getting raises?
Making network connections?
Got a hot tip?</p>
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TV4caster:
I’m not sure if you were referring to my post (that I figured would mix it up here a bit 
) but if so, I didn’t say it would be ‘easy’. Here’s what I said -
I have no doubt that the average $200K earner would like to not spend $50k/yr if they didn’t have to and that it might pinch a bit. I also have no doubt that the $300k/yr or maybe the $400k/yr person would say the same thing. It’s pretty easy to get into a position where it’d pinch - just “buy-up” on the house for whatever reason - to get into the better school district, to be in the absolute safest part of town, to keep up with the Joneses. The 200k person could buy at one level and the 300k at a somewhat higher level and both end up at the same point as far as disposable income but that doesn’t make me conclude that it’s unreasonable for the 300k person to pay the full college cost.
This buying up is enough to get most people into a financial pinch and it certainly has turned out that way for a lot of people. I could have easily done the same thing and many people would have. I could have decided to move on up from a housing perspective and live in a house double the value of the one I’ve been in but I didn’t. </p>
<p>Look at it this way, if you lived in a house that was valued at just $200k lower than the one you’re currently in you’d already have that $50k * 4 yrs.</p>
<p>Part of the reason I didn’t buy-up is because I can look ahead. I could see that my kids were going to be approaching college age some years down the road and even that they’d be overlapping for a year or two. It didn’t take me long to do some math to determine -
- I was better off staying put as far as the house goes rather than increasing my mortgage thousands per month.
- I was better off not buying a new car and being saddled with the expenditure or payments, especially not an expensive new car as many of my peers do. A friend of mine bought a new Mercedes that cost around $100k and all I could think of was that it’s the equivalent of 4 years at a top state flagship or 2 years at an expensive private but it’s just a car (and I like and appreciate cars - and the friend didn’t have kids).
- I better think twice before doing the expensive vacations. This doesn’t mean not to do them - just to consider the affordability and impact on college affordability before doing them.
- I was better off not tying my money up in rental properties since I wanted the liquidity to pay for college.
- I better have some savings for college to get a jump start if I didn’t want to pay the entire thing out of my salary as we went along. It didn’t all need to be saved but having some savings does the spreading out of the cost to reduce the hit during the 4 years (or more).</p>
<p>I guess I was the opposite of the people The GFG mentioned - I just assumed I’d pay the full cost of whatever colleges the kids decided to go to and that with luck (and some hard work on the kids’ parts) maybe it could get reduced by merit scholarships. I already assumed (correctly) that we wouldn’t get any need based aid.</p>
<p>So, I’m not saying that paying for the $50K/yr college on a $200k income is ‘easy’ or wouldn’t have some impact but I’m saying it s/b relatively ‘doable’ by anyone with a modicum of foresight and forethought on the cost of college. Of course, this forethought should have occurred somewhat before the kid is a senior in HS and sending out college apps. The OP asked how people do it and this is how - they think ahead and live according to their means with the college costs included as part of the living costs.</p>
<p>EFC for two kids (for us) was about 140% of EFC for one using PROFILE methodology. I’ve heard from multiple sources that it should be around 120% (FAFSA runs to that), but some schools are more generous than others.</p>
<p>ETA: Standing and cheering Blossom’s post. We made our decision on how we’d fund college in 1998. S1 was in 2nd grade, S2 was in K. And yeah, those conversations did happen in the pick-up line! 
We assumed we’d be borderline for any FA and assumed it would all be on us. Having a low mortgage helped ensure we could save, but more importantly, have low cash flow for when the guys hit college.</p>
<p>Will admit that S1 made it a lot easier because his contribution to the pot was pretty significant.</p>
<p>“So, I’m not saying that paying for the $50K/yr college on a $200k income is ‘easy’ or wouldn’t have some impact but I’m saying it s/b relatively ‘doable’ by anyone with a modicum of foresight and forethought on the cost of college. Of course, this forethought should have occurred somewhat before the kid is a senior in HS and sending out college apps.”</p>
<p>I totally agree with that. Obviously, planning ahead of time makes it easier than trying to come up with all the money out of a current income stream. And even when it comes down to it, it certainly can be done by anyone willing to sacrifice enough. For example, you could live out of the back of a Dodge Caravan or if you really wanted to splurge, rent a 1 bedroom apartment and cram all 5 family members in :)</p>
<p>I am with you though on the pre-planning and living below your means, but even then we get penalized.</p>
<p>LongPrime:</p>
<p>Things are good. Got a few surgeries done and was finally able to fix up my hand (injury of 10+ years) – the relief is beyond words. Girlfriend’s great, too.</p>
<p>Connections, eh, could be better, haha (I’m somewhat shy). Loans are still serving as the proverbial thorns-in-side (I fear I won’t have enough to responsibly raise kids of my own someday, esp. here in NYC), but they are nevertheless manageable. A lot of progress has been made over the past couple of years… hopefully it’ll stay that way!</p>
<p>I’m a product of a shared room, and my sister and I both survived, as did the older pair of sisters who shared for 11 years. I admit that many toys, articles of clothing, and chunks of hair gave their lives in our battles.</p>
<p>It’s hard to bite my tongue sometimes when I’m counseling a young lawyer who responds to a job suggestion by saying, “It only pays X! You can’t even live on that!” and I make X minus $10k. Ouch. (It’d be easier to keep quiet if these were folks with 3 kids, but they always seem to be young, single men.)</p>
<p>I know a lot of families who pay the ultra premium to live in the fanciest school district, and then their kids aren’t in the tough academic tracks anyway. I’m willing to be convinced, but I doubt that you get a better education in the lower or middle track at New Trier vs. the AP track in Skokie. It’s the other lifestyle features that attract families to the fancy towns, not just the elite school.</p>
<p>Standing ovation for GladGradDad’s post! </p>
<p>The housing decision was a biggie for us too. We are still in our starter home, and our kids shared a bedroom. We could have sized up about 10 years ago, but were worried about the increasing real estate taxes and what could happen in the event of a job loss for DH, since his industry was shaky and I was a SAHM. We figured we could still swing the mortgage with savings and unemployment if we stayed put. We haven’t yet remodeled anything, though we do need to. Some of the folks I mentioned in my previous post have remodeled their kitchens twice to our never. For many years we lived without cable and with only one TV and one computer. We only have one TV and one household computer now, though we did have two desktops for a while when it was necessary. We drive cheap cars, I shop at Marshall’s and the farm market a lot, I pack lunches and snacks for school and for family outings, I do home dry cleaning and hand washing, etc. We do our own cooking, cleaning, and lawn mowing. Working moms can’t always be as frugal, but then again they make money. There are so many ways to save money but people are very attached to their comforts and feel they NEED them.</p>
<p>Lots of working mom’s practice extreme frugality as well- it always amuses me that someone who works for me brags that her annual dry cleaning bill probably exceeds my annual wardrobe spending (I’m sure she’s right) but to each his or her own.</p>
<p>But the point is not to demonize other people’s choices- but just to recognize with choices come trade-offs. I have cousins and sisters in law who took 15 year maternity leaves (multiple kids) and are now highly resentful of “society” that their career prospects right now are so dim. They are angry that they can’t afford to pay for college with only one income- and with the kids in high school they really don’t need to pay for child care anymore- so it’s back into the workplace. But the lengthy gap on the resume doesn’t help during a recession. Nobody wants to hear about your leadership skills managing the schools book fair last year if you can’t do a Powerpoint or don’t know excel. Many of the jobs they left just don’t exist anymore- Manager of database marketing for a magazine that closed 10 years ago? Credit analyst for a middle market bank that’s been acquired three times until its name eventually disappeared? </p>
<p>They feel cheated that “nobody warned them” that they’d be looking at front desk jobs at health clubs or teaching pilates at the local community center, JD and MBA notwithstanding. And they are resentful that their mom’s got to stay home a generation ago and manage to raise and educate their kids on only one income.</p>
<p>But to me- these are all choices with trade-offs attached. As one of them pointed out to me ruefully, “You can’t clip 60K worth of coupons, after tax” and of course she’s right. But you also can’t resent the women who took a few weeks off after their babies were born and have stayed in the workforce consistently for now being in a position to pay for college, fund their retirement out of the 401K or stock plan, and other non-salary benefits. They made a choice as well, and of course, didn’t know how their trade-offs would turn out.</p>
<p>But agree with most everyone here that the house is the biggest trap of all. Realtors would look at us like we were nuts when we showed them the “pre-Qualified” letter from the bank. They would point out to us that with our income we should be looking at nicer towns, better and bigger lots, fancier houses, more amenities, and overall, a more “exclusive lifestyle”. What a scam. Kids can share a bedroom- teaches lots of valuable life lessons. Grownups can learn to serve a meal on a formica countertop. The money that you’re not paying for your mortgage is only the beginning- smaller lots mean less lawn to mow, smaller house means lower gas bills, lower taxes, etc. </p>
<p>GFG- I admire you for figuring out how to stay in your house even with a potential job loss. I have friends and family members who have had to move and it is so painful for everyone- shame for the parents, confusion for the kids- and of course, you never get as much for the house as you thought you would since you don’t have the cash for the painting and landscaping and all those nice fixes that enhance curb appeal.</p>
<p>I would say the one big mistake we made was our house. We’re still technically in our starter house because we didn’t buy a house until our oldest was in high school because we couldn’t afford it. We probably shouldn’t have done it, but I desperately wanted a home of my own, never having had one. We don’t have a lavish home in an elite neighborhood, but it is a real home for our kids to come to. It probably would have been more prudent to wait till the kids were done with college and buy something in a 55+ community, but here we are.</p>
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<p>How and what is the penalty?</p>
<p>Beat you zoosermom - we closed on our house in September, one month into Happykid’s second year of college at the local CC! I figured it was now or never. Depending on where she transfers, we might need to take out a small Parent Loan, and with that on our credit, I feared that no one would write us a mortgage that was affordable. Three bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, 3 levels of townhouse with a small fenced-in backyard - easily 50% more space than we really need facing an “empty nest” just months from now. But oh, is it nice to have my own laundry room and not have to round up quarters just to get the clothes clean and dry, and oh, it is nice to cut Happydad’s commute down to five minutes in traffic at rush hour!</p>
<p>There are very many factors for each family to consider. Annual salary and cost of living is just the start.</p>
<p>Obviously a big factor is amount of savings. The pension outlook is also a factor. Many families deal with layoffs and/or loss of traditional pension plans. It’s scarier to spend down savings from college when you’ll need savings to generate income for retirement and health care down the road. Ha, I still have a hope that we’ll all have Social Security… but that’s a concern too.</p>
<p>I know a woman who got pregnant right before she got her MBA from Columbia. She even managed to get a job, worked for 2 years, decided to quit after having her second child. Her H was working at an IB. They had 4 kids, all went to my kids’ private school ($120K tuition every year). The market crashed and H lost his job, just when the kids were starting college. The woman decided to go back to work and she couldn’t get anything other than a receptionist position at a doctor’s office. </p>
<p>As a mother of 2 girls, I am telling them to stay in the work force if they could. I raised two of them with a lot of hired help, but now they are all grown, I am finding renewed interest in my career, and I am enjoying it. My kids also like the fact that I have a life outside of them. But it was hard when they were little and all I wanted was to be home with them.</p>
<p>Have not read all the post. Just got one question.</p>
<p>If 200K income is middle class, what is the line for low income, 120K or 150K?</p>
<p>Are you trying to figure out if you are low income or middle class? The question is if top tier colleges give FA to middle class or low income because I believe both of your kids received very generous FA from their respective schools. I think in your case, it was a good thing your wife didn’t work.</p>
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<p>Oh I think $120K to $150K would be “dirt poor” :)</p>
<p>If 200K income is middle class, what is the line for low income, 120K or 150K? </p>
<p>this is a joke, right?</p>
<p>please don’t be so hard on OP. compassion is virtue.
he could be a valuable addition to CC.
the transplanted political forum is nicer than you guys. :p</p>
<p>I’m enjoying reading all the responses. Lots of others here that will be headed for the same situatuion. At the end of the day everybody’s financial situation is different and complicated.</p>