What are middle class families really paying for Ivy league school admissions?

<p>GGD: I’m not sure what you’re asking for. I think your kid should go to his perfectly fine college, and be grateful for his full ride at an expensive private. I think that’s great. Private schools offer excellent opportunities in this country, and if you can pay for it, or be paid for, that’s fine too. My point has to do with state schools, which were founded in order that students from all backgrounds should be able to attend, to get an education that would fit them to become more profitable citizens. Every kid who attends college, private or not, benefits from someone else’s money: someone started it, someone built it, someone paid for it. A bunch of alumni have donated money to it. Even if you pay full price, you are being in some sense subsidized by someone. </p>

<p>State schools were especially designed to make it possible for kids of all backgrounds to attend. The mission statement of SUNY, the state university of New York, for example, is this: “The mission of the state university system shall be to provide to the people of New York educational services of the highest quality, with the broadest possible access, fully representative of all segments of the population in a complete range of academic, professional and vocational postsecondary programs including such additional activities in pursuit of these objectives as are necessary or customary.” The people of New York, as of every state, decided that it was worth it to them to educate its citizens, although it would cost the state money: they would subsidize college education, because they recognized that it was of value to them, collectively. It is meaningless to offer an education to people without pricing it within their means. What I have in mind is that we, as a society, should subsidize education so that “all segments of the population” can afford to attend the state schools we have established for that purpose. I repeat, I am not advocating college for free. I am recommending that state colleges be affordable for students of all backgrounds. A year at SUNY, again, costs $15,000. (It doesn’t matter if you have already attended two years of Community College or not; eventually, you will have to pay for two years at SUNY if you transfer.) Right now, a person can qualify for $5,500/year of Pell grants, and each student can qualify for about $5,000 in student loans; that leaves $4,500. A student might be able to get a work-study job, and earn $2000; he might be able to earn another thousand, maybe two, over the summer (although he still has to cover the cost of living). He’s still a thousand or two shy of the amount he needs. Why is it so crazy, so “socialist,” to think that it shouldn’t be impossible to offer taxpayer assistance to fill that gap? Why does it offend your sense of all that is reasonable to subsidize state schools enough that a student can afford to go?</p>

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<p>What about the $2,500 Federal Tax Credit?</p>

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<p>Once again, if the SUNY student is a NYS resident, s/he would have to be to attend SUNY for this price, they would also be eligible for NYS aid, TAP. </p>

<p>A student with a 0 EFC would receive $4,995 in NYS aid, TAP. The income cut off for TAP, NYS aid is 80,000.</p>

<p>[Apply</a> for TAP Now](<a href=“http://www.hesc.com/content.nsf/SFC/Apply_for_TAP_Now]Apply”>http://www.hesc.com/content.nsf/SFC/Apply_for_TAP_Now)</p>

<p>marysidney,
In California, community college fees are about $36 per unit (with FA available), California State colleges are about $5K - $6K per year (which would be fully covered by the Stafford loan if you don’t qualified for FA), and the UCs are free or affordable to those making less than $80K per year. <a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/paying-for-uc/financial-aid/grants/blue-gold/files/blueandgold_factsheet_11_Eng.pdf[/url]”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/paying-for-uc/financial-aid/grants/blue-gold/files/blueandgold_factsheet_11_Eng.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>We are in the same boat as the OP albeit less asset. Our daughter is junior now and started the process of selecting schools that she will apply to. Her stat is probably at the 50-75 percentile (more so to the lower Ivys than HYP, her match is probably Cornell) of Ivy League students’ stat so she’s considering those, as well as UCLA/UCB/UCSD since we are CA resident. So our expected EFC to the Ivies ranges from 45K to 59K a year. Harvard is the most generous and rightly the most selective.</p>

<p>My question is, does she even bother to apply to the Ivies? Knowing that she can’t get any grant/aid. </p>

<p>50K a year is a lot of money and I know that I can only afford about 30K a year, which more or less a UC education would cost us. So for 4 years the cost difference between a UC education and an Ivy league for us would be about 80K, which if we go this route will come from student loan/s. I’m so confused right now. A lot of people will say 80K is so worth it. Maybe for an HYPSM versus UCLA/UCB. But how about the lower Ivies versus UCLA/UCB? Of course, obviously my daughter still need to get accepted to these schools first which is no easy task even for students with perfect scores, which my daughter doesn’t have.</p>

<p>If the school’s net price calculator gives a net price that is unaffordable (needing more loans than Stafford loan amounts is a common measure), and the school does not offer merit scholarships, then it is not really worth applying to that school.</p>

<p>$80,000 in debt is considered a lot for student loan debt. It is a significant risk, even if she is laser-focused on preparing for and seeking high paying jobs after graduation.</p>

<p>2018dad–first, you need to understand that there is about 6% acceptance rate into the Ivy’s. Yes, apply if that is where she wants to go and you don’t mind tossing $75 out the window for application fees and whatever it costs to send test scores. It’s a choice. No, I don’t think 80K in loans is worth an Ivy education for UG, especially if there is a chance she will go to med school, law school, grad school—because there will be loans for those too.</p>

<p>There are 1000’s of colleges out there and she should easily be able to find a school that comes in WELL under $30,000 if she is a high stat student-GPA/test scores. She needs to find a couple reach schools-Ivy’s or whatever, a couple realistic matches–Ivy’s are not matches for anyone because of the acceptance rate. Then she needs to find a couple safety schools that the net cost is below your $30K, including travel and expenses and a little leeway for cost increases. They should also be a pretty sure bet for acceptance.</p>

<p>@SteveMA
Believe me, I’m aware of Ivy’s acceptance rate. I guess my definition of “match” is a little bit misguided. You’re right and I know what you’re saying. Nobody is a shoo-in to these schools even with kids with perfect scores and grades. Thanks for the reply. I guess we need to widen the net/blanket that we’ll throw.</p>

<p>As I have posted before, most students (and families) who would consider Ivies are usually fairly sophisticated and know their odds. There is no need to tell them what it would take. The tough issue is how to afford it, and what is the reasonable amount of loans. Cornell is often considered a match school if HYP are even a possibility. </p>

<p>2018dad - how many kids do you have? would you be willing to take on 40K loans and your D 40K? What major(s) is your kid considering? If she is going to be pre-law or pre-med, you may want to consider how much loan you want to take on for UG. If your kid wants to go into finance or consulting then where she gets her UG will matter. It also depends on your age, how long you plan to work, because your expenses will go down after your kid(s) are out of the house. You may find that you could afford to pay for some student loans later in life when you couldn’t afford to save for college tuition when your kids were growing up.</p>

<p>The SUNY colleges are anywhere from 16,000-18,000 while the universities run about 19,000. The SUNYs give merit aid by the way- some will give full scholarships, some as much as 10,000 per year. My daughter got merit aid at a SUNY but chose a different SUNY to attend. No loans- it’s a wonderful thing even for OOS. The numbers I just provided are for everything- not bad! OOS still comes in well under 30,000.</p>

<p>oldfort–read what the OP wrote—yes it’s old, it also implies that they are sure their D will get into at least one Ivy–a lot of people do NOT realize that no one is a shoe-in…even Cornell only has so many spots…</p>

<p>No one is a shoo-in, but some people have better chance getting in than others because of their stats or some other factors. I was referencing:

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<p>Since someone chose to pull this thread up from the archives, you might be interested to note that OPs daughter was accepted ED at UPenn this year, and he was not “wrong.” So, there ya have it.</p>

<p>Wow. I didn’t realize that this thread is old and it looks like the OP bit the bullet and enrolled his/her daughter to UPenn.</p>

<p>It seems like only yesterday, when the mother of one of Ds friends told me she was going to UPenn, & I wondered why she didn’t think a smile & " thats nice", was enough acknowledgement.</p>

<p>I mean, how excited did she think I should have been, for a public school on the east coast?</p>

<p>;)</p>

<p>@emeraldkity4
Say what? UPenn is an Ivy League and a private university.</p>

<p>Well yes, I know that * now*.</p>

<p>That is why it is humorous.
;)</p>

<p>I also wasn’t sure where Cornell was, ( Iowa?) when my neighbor told me her grandson was playing basketball there.
But then I met someone who told me her parents were upset that she turned down a Cornell acceptance to attend the Evergreen State College.
( she wanted to get away from the east coast)</p>

<p>@emeraldkity4
Now I get it. LOL.
Turned down Cornell to attend Evergreen State College? In WA? I would be very upset too if my D would do something like that.</p>

<p>well, she has done very well & she met her husband there (who was also from the east coast` his sister went to Reed), so I expect her parents have gotten over it by now.</p>

<p>when my D announced where she was going to go to college (just south of Evergreen, at Reed College in Portland), quite a few of her friends parents said that they had wanted to attend Reed, but their families wouldn’t allow them to.</p>

<p>Even though I am from the northwest, I hadn’t heard of it either, until my neighbor mentioned that was where he attended & said they had great aid. (same class as Steve Jobs)</p>

<p>@oldfort
I will be 46 when my d attend college next year and I have another 7 year old daughter. I might be willing to split the 80K. The thing is we don’t have this kind of income until about 2 years ago. It seems that once you cross that 200K, most top 20 private colleges are not giving you any grant at all.</p>