What are my chances of getting into Harvard? (Brownie points if you give more tips!)

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hi I am an Indian male sophomore who goes to school in upstate NY.

My father came to the United States without knowing any English, but he studied hard and became proficient in English and was able to successfully start up an IT Staffing company. He brought my mother to the U.S. around this time. Then my brother and I (identical twins) were born in the U.S. at 1lb 6oz each, and were very critical, spending 3-4 months in NICU & PICU. I had 3 surgeries and my brother had 4. My brother suffered a bleed in the prefrontal cortex of his brain and cannot analyze properly or do complex math till date. My mother got into a serious car accident when we were 3 and could not drive for five years or work for ten years and was on wheelchair for one year. Because of financial difficulties, we moved into a small apartment in a rough neighborhood and bought a gas station to work there while my dad tried to expand his company. People stole from us and we had a very tough time getting money. School was very bad, so we had to go to a Catholic school as Hindus for four years, which was an hour away by bus everyday, as no one could drive us. After 5-6 years, the company caught on and was doing well, so we could move away from that house, so we moved a couple of times and we finally are settled in. However, recently, my grandfather got Progressive Supranuclear Palsy (which I corrected from its initial incorrect diagnosis of Parkinson’s) and my aunt has been suffering from brain cancer for the past 17 years.

I want to become a neurologist and a professor of neurology to treat people with such debilitating neurological disorders and to share my love of neuroscience with those around me.

Here’s what I’ve got:
No SAT or ACT score as of yet because I haven’t taken it (but what’s a good score?)
4.0 GPA so far, my school doesn’t weigh or do class rank
Average has been ranging anywhere from 96.00%-99.33%
I have taken one AP course so far (AP World History), and I still have to take the exam. I plan to take all 10 APs offered in my school. (How important are the AP scores? I’m going to be taking the sciences most seriously)
Taking accelerated math and science and I am in all honors courses

As for ECs:
Class VP Freshman year–raised $2800 and did many awesome fundraisers and charity drives
Founded a Brain Bee in my city, which is a branch of an international neuroscience competition which tests students ability of the neurosciences. This was our first year. I was also a participant, getting in 4th place out of 41 competitors.
I am also doing paperwork to get into a neuroscience laboratory as a research intern, where I will spend my summers.
I am a junior volunteer at my local hospital, totaling 52 hours of service.
Varsity Tennis (I’m okay at tennis, but I’m trying to get better)
Member of Science Olympiad, National Honor Society, Chess Club, and Math Club.
I have also been nominated for National Youth Leadership Forum in Medicine, but I’m not accepting their invitation. (I think it’s a money gimmick)

I will be taking the SAT Biology M and SAT Math 1 at the end of my junior year. I think I will ask my English teacher for a recommendation letter since she knows everything about me and she likes me and she will be helping me with my personal essay.

Please let me know what my chances are of getting in at Harvard. I want to be surrounded by people who enjoy learning and are very passionate about everything they do. I am also thinking about Stanford because of their great neurobiology program.

Thanks so much!

2

I’m sure there are others on this thread that will opine about your Harvard chances, so I will not bother.
However, your reason for wanting to go to Harvard (above) intrigues me.

Are you aware that your statement above applies to literally hundreds of schools in the US?

3

I’m aware, but I believe that the leaders that Harvard has produced are exceptional, and so their student body probably has a very high percentage of people who have the qualities that I would want to be with. One of my father’s friends said to surround yourself with people who are smarter than you. He did just that and he is in a much better position today then he was in before. Thanks for replying. I’m happy I could clear that up.

4

@coolcool07
You are missing the point. Yes, Harvard has produced exceptional leaders. But so has Stanford, Yale, Princeton, etc. Don’t even get me started on the top tier LACs. A college is much more than its name. If you want to go to Harvard only because you think that’s where the most intelligent, motivated people are, there are two things you should know: 1. That isn’t the case and 2. Saying so makes you sound ignorant and caught up in the prestige and name brand. Also, there is literally no way to chance you for Harvard without test scores. While your other areas seem decent for the time being, they are really nothing spectacular and wouldn’t stand out to Harvard admissions. Also, while it is nice to learn about your family history and background, it doesn’t affect admissions overly much, and (to be honest) is a bit odd to include on a discussion for your chances.

5

I speak for the hundreds of other schools that would ask (if they could), hey why are you rejecting us? There are about 11,000 public/private colleges and universities in the US. Things you will find in the top 200 schools: Noble Prize winning graduates and professors;Pulitzer Price winning graduates and professors; Outstanding programs; outstanding opportunities. But you know almost nothing about these schools. Instead, you are inquiring about the one school you have heard is one of the best. And you know what? It is.

But here is an important question. Harvard admits about 2000 college students each year. Are you one of the top 2000 students in the world? If not, why not consider other schools? There are some outstanding ones. There are some that are better in some areas and in some ways than Harvard is. And, they are a more appropriate selection for the majority of students…even excellent ones. And even if you have interests in areas that Harvard excels in, what is so outstanding about your credentials that you’d start thinking you should be there? To think of it in another way, there are about 37 thousand high schools in the US. That means, if Harvard only accepted US residents, it would accept one top student from each group of 16 schools. (about 10% admitted are international so it is actually more selective than that). So, if you are not sure you are the top student out of about 16 schools, you may want to consider alternatives. They are probably more appropriate.

This isn’t meant to suggest you don’t have good credentials. You probably do. But so do the top 10% of the graduating classes from well over 37,000 high schools.

6

I must have forgotten to add that I would like to go to medical school after undergraduate studies, and Harvard has one of the best premedical programs, so that is why I would like to go to Harvard. It is not that any other college is inferior, but it has the right type of education that I am looking for. RoundGenius, I am not saying that Harvard has the “most intelligent and motivated” people to be surrounded with. If you read my previous statement more closely, i said that they most likely have a higher percentage of these people, compared to, say, the SUNYs. I hope you understand what I mean. Please let this not be a post about what I said or will say. I have written this just to see where I am at and to get any pointers to help me navigate. I am not looking for speech advice. Additionally, test scores are not the deciding factor. These colleges want to know about who you are as a person, hence the part about my background. In fact, Harvard and Stanford do not require you to send them your test scores if you do not want to do so.

7

Thanks for the reply, lostaccount. I will think about that. Maybe the uniqueness of my background coupled with my starting the Brain Bee will be appealing to admissions officers.

8

If you want to use a condescending tone with me, at least have the decency to not screw up on basic facts. Harvard and Stanford require you to send in test scores. I’m a little worried by the fact that you thought otherwise. The only top school I know of that is test optional is Bowdoin. Your application will be thrown in the trash if you don’t include test scores. Let me stress this: it is a REQUIREMENT. And you make it seem as if there are only two levels of colleges: Ivies, Stanford, MIT, etc. and everything else. Ever heard of Reed? If you are interested in medical/biological sciences and want to be around intellectual people, that’s probably the best place. The work is rigorous and brutal and it has some of the most intelligent and motivated students in the country? Or do you not believe that because it isn’t an Ivy or has too high an acceptance rate? Reed is one of the most selective LACs in the country.

9

Sounds like you really want an answer to your question. Here it is. Are you ready? You, like every other applicant in the world, have a very SMALL chance of getting in to Harvard. You also have a very SMALL chance of getting in to Stanford, MIT, Yale, Princeton, UPenn, Dartmouth, Brown, or Cornell. You’ve already shown us that you are not open minded and are not willing to surround yourself with lowly public university students. You need to change your attitude and open your mind, quickly. If you don’t, there’s a 95% chance you will be very disappointed.

10

And there’s a 100% chance that you will be very disappointed if you keep the attitude and don’t send in test scores.

11

Your stats are low as of right now. Your GPA could change since you barely have taken any APs at all.
Consider more prestige extracurricular if you want to increase your chance significantly, such as research for ISEF, USABO. Study more up on brain bee because you should be aiming for top top and do well at the national level.

Don’t take SAT Math 1. Most students take Math 2 and make sure you don’t get below 800 because you can get 800 with 6 or so wrong.

Volunteer more. 52 hours is barely anything no offense.
Being member of Science Olympiad, National Honor Society, Chess Club, and Math Club doesn’t mean much. What awards did you get + aim to get officer positions here.

Basically, you want to get one large extracurricular to get the eyes of the admission. I don’t see that in you currently.

Good luck.

12

@coolcool07 :
Here’s a data point for you.
If being surrounded by people who are passionate about what they do is very important, you should be aware that although that would describe many Harvard students, many of them are only there because of legacy and not having much to do about their passion or even their raw qualifications. You probably would be better suited as a school which specifically rejects the concept of legacy admissions (MIT comes to mind, but there are others). A school such as MIT would be pretty much exclusively populated by students such as the type you’re seeking.

13

Not correct.

14

There are actually a few more (e.g. Brandeis, Wesleyan, Hamilton, Union, Wake Forest, etc.) However, I believe that most (if not all) of these still require tests for international applicants.

15

Seriously, OP didn’t ask y’all to analysis his choices/mindset/why he chose Harvard to apply to and want to get into. Thousands of people apply to Harvard for reasons worse than his, so why are y’all being so negative? He has perfectly valid reasons to apply to Harvard, and if he wants to apply, stop criticizing him (he’s the one paying the application fee!). He didn’t ask if he should apply to Harvard or other schools he should apply to, he asked what his chances were.

OP, you’re chances, like thousands others, are small, and without test scores, is impossible to tell. You’e GPA and extracuriculars are fantastic and if you continue on that road and just doing what you like and are interested in, you’ll get into a good school. Good luck!

(P.S what attitude are y’all talking about? He didn’t even have a condescending attitude, on the contrary, most of the responders had one. This is one thing i hate about CC. Ugh)

16

neonerudite, the OP’s GPA and extracurricular are not “fantastic”. They are “fine”. I guess that captures a very pervasive problem. I’ve said it is the “Self Esteem” movement coming back to bite us in the… Everybody is viewed as “amazing” because they are so invested in being viewed that way. Students are busying themselves to such an extent that they have no time to think. I don’t mean they have no time to study and memorize. But few are scholars in the sense of being an independent thinking person who is curious about how the world and universe works. Instead, the lions share of students are racking up “hours”, titles, and lines on their future college applications. Now here is the paradox, the more those students work at racking up just the right tidbits for their resume, the less appealing they will be to the very schools they are most interested in gaining access to.

Why? Because aside from some very specific categories of students (and some schools at the top of that list don’t accept on the basis of any those categories-like legacy or donation-likely students), these schools are interested in selecting students most likely to “set the world on fire” in a positive way-they are looking for the game changers…world changers. And, you can’t be a game changer if you are so busy trying to be the best at the games as they are now played. That is why these schools have such a hard time conveying to the public how they select students. It isn’t that they are purposely trying to exclude or include particular demographics-something that was true a while ago-but they are looking for the students who not only think “outside the box” but those who haven’t even noticed there is a box because they are not conventional thinkers to begin with.

There was a time when scores and grades may have identified those students most apt to be game changers. But when everyone has perfect grades and when ACT/SAT tutors are lined up by middle school, perfect grades and perfect scores don’t separate the scholars and exceptional thinkers from the ho hum. So the schools at the tippy top look for other ways to do that. And, long lists of ECs, hundreds of volunteer hours and an extensive list of new clubs founded is not the way. They are looking for the students who would have done just what they did if they were never going to apply to a single college and, when it comes to volunteering, never told a soul they did what they did-because after all, true charity work is about doing beneficial things not getting credit. And among those driven by interest rather than resume building, the very top schools are interested in those students whose accomplishments are already stunning.

So the answer for OP : There is nothing you can do to make yourself a good bet for Harvard except perhaps to try to be eligible for one of those categories that get a pass in terms of exceptionality. Get yourself into a family with the kind of money that can be donated to fund buildings. Become good enough in a sport that you can earn a slot on a team but don’t be so dedicated that Kansas or Connecticut would be a better choice.

Alternatively, you can be involved in activities for the sake of your interests and see where that leads you.

17

OP is not an international student.

18

@neonerudite , I am new here, and I agree with you. I was shocked by vitriolic reactions to innocent, if very naive, questions almost immediately.

Then I remembered – this is still the internet!

If the OP is a soph he is of an age that, when I was there, I could barely tell the comb in my back pocket from the… umm… thing next to it.

19

“Harvard has one of the best premedical programs” (#5)

However, should your primary goal be to become a doctor, by some analyses there may be even better options: “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges with Great Pre-med Programs” (online).

“Please let this not be a [topic] about what I said or will say.”

Consider the above source supplemental and not contradictory. Good luck with your future applications.

20

Hello everyone, thanks for your input. I previously had said that Harvard and Stanford do not require test scores, and I may have read that somewhere, but I understand that that is wrong (thanks to soze for pointing that out), and even so, I had no intention of not sending my test scores, but anyway, I retract that statement and I am sorry for any confusion I may have caused through that statement. However, I still maintain that test scores are not the deciding factor to college admissions. As my guidance counselor has told me, it is one test, and they cannot base your entire high school career (and partial middle school career) off of one test. So I completely agree with lostaccount in that test scores will not be a big differentiator. lost account, thanks for your well-written words. I will certainly keep that in mind as I go through my high school career. However, I would like to point out that my love for neuroscience and the beautiful human brain came as a result of my life experiences, and I knew that I would have to give back to the doctors and those who saved my life in the first 3 months of my life. So to my friends and family, starting the brain bee and applying for neuroscience research internship positions did not come as a surprise. They had realized that I was very curious about exploring the depths of the human brain. Hopefully, my love for this field of research will take me far and will show the world what I can become and what I am capable of. RoundGenius, I was not trying to be condescending, but if something may have made it seem that way, then I am sincerely sorry about that as I try to be a very nice person to everyone, even if it is through the internet. WishingK, thank you for your input/analysis. STEM2017 and usualhopeful, I try to have an open-minded attitude and I try to collaborate with everyone. Otherwsie, I wouldn’t be here at this thread asking for your help. I want to gain some insight into the admissions process, and I want to here it from people, not articles on the internet. I want it to personally relate, yeah? I am not saying that those below ivy-league are inferior. All I am saying is that there is a higher percentage of intelligent AND talented people at these institutions. Definitely, there are many people throughout the world who do not or have not attended these institutions and are just as capable. However, I have a better chance of meeting these people at top tier institutions and learning from some of the top minds in the world, and studying from some of the finest book collections in the libraries of these institutions. I am really passionate about education, and this is what I want, I know that Harvard also has a great research facility, so I would be overjoyed to be able to work in their laboratories and perform experiments I may never be able to do in any other institution because it may not have the financial/material resources.

For future posts to this thread, I would like to throw some more information in for minimal confusion:

Let’s assume that I get an SAT score of 2150-2300 (With the redeisgned SAT, 1430-1530 is the proper “numerology”)
or
Assume that I receive an ACT score of 32-35

Additionally, as pointed out earlier, my GPA is bound to fall since I have only taken one AP. However, I have found it difficult NOT to fall from a 4.0. I know, my school’s GPA system is weird, but for this post’s sake, let’s assume that my GPA is anywhere from 3.9-4.0. I am not trying to say that I am very smart of full of myself because I hold myself to such high standards, so if I receive a post that says that, I will completely disregard it. Thank you for understanding. Evidently, I have not been too clear with my communication in the past few posts.

All I am trying to do is build a framework and see if I can fill it in. All I ask for is your assistance. Thanks to all.