What are my chances?: Read this first

<p>Given a recent wave of SC chance me threads I think a <em>bump</em> is in order.</p>

<p>Bumping again - Madbean’s advice should be stickied and permanently at the top .</p>

<p>I would also recommend the USC Admissions Blog as it is a great resource for applicants.</p>

<p>In reading through the blog, there were a couple of posts I noticed that relate to legacy admissions. (these were of particular interest since my son applied last month) They seem to indicate that USC does consider legacy status, although it is only one of many factors. This one is from just a couple of days ago:</p>

<p>"We are made up of about 20% legacy students, and while we certain love to accept legacy students, the fact that your parent, grandparent, or sibling went to USC is one of many factors we consider when reviewing a student’s application. "</p>

<p>[Mythbusters:</a> From the Source! · Undergraduate Admission Blog](<a href=“http://admissionblog.usc.edu/2013/12/13/mythbusters-from-the-source/]Mythbusters:”>http://admissionblog.usc.edu/2013/12/13/mythbusters-from-the-source/)</p>

<p>And from earlier this year:</p>

<p>“As part of our holistic review process, we do consider legacy status when evaluating applications, in addition to the many other factors that are taken into account. Currently, about twenty percent of our students are Scions (legacy students).”</p>

<p>[I&lt;/a&gt; Submitted by December 1st, Now What?! · Undergraduate Admission Blog](<a href=“http://admissionblog.usc.edu/2013/01/15/i-submitted-by-december-1st-now-what/]I”>http://admissionblog.usc.edu/2013/01/15/i-submitted-by-december-1st-now-what/)</p>

<p>Thanks for the input on legacy admissions, Yao. </p>

<p>My notes in this thread are intended to be a fairly sober view of the admissions at USC over the past 8 years or so. They are a composite of observations of the hundreds of students/parents who post their admissions results here, as well as personal observations of dozens of USC alumns and their kids’ experiences too. </p>

<p>My original answer to the question of legacy was that it was not considered, and I do think the comments from USC as quoted in your post are a valid counter-point. However, what the admissions office states and what is actually practiced may have some nuanced differences.</p>

<p>Here’s my take–and again–it’s simply from careful observation: We know that 47,000+ applications are being reviewed and approx 9000 will be sent letters of admission, so decisions will be made to accept or deny even among applicants whose stats are at or above USC’s midpoint (UW gpa 3.8, SAT: 2140) of acceptees (or equivalently talented leaders & innovators & artists) How does the admissions department handle these final selections between a glut of wonderful students? There are many students who have desirable traits that fill the institution’s needs–like for diversity, just to name one. It is likely Admissions also at that point–totally qualified applicant–may reward legacy. This serves two functions, logically. It pleases the alumni base, of course, who want to see their children carry on the tradition. Happy alumni are more likely to be generous. And, even more importantly perhaps, those legacy admits might be seen to be more likely to matriculate. Their family history may predispose them to want to be Trojans, which would positively affect yield. Some wags might even suggest that legacy families are more likely than not to be full-pay families. I choose not to tread there! But in any and all cases, I think this makes sense! </p>

<p>But my objection to the notion that legacy is “counted” in admissions (and this is coming from a family with NO legacy to USC at all) is that it may tend to diminish the accomplishment and honor accorded to the admitted legacy student. My point is: we’ve seen here that the legacy applicant who is admitted as a Fall admit is exactly as talented a student as non-legacies who are admitted. USC does not dip down in any way we have seen here on CC, not in grades or scores or accomplishments. So legacy does not “make up” for a lower gpa, for example. Legacy admits, I say, raise your heads high! You earned it! (hehe)</p>

<p>The other aspect of legacy–as we observe here and know of many examples in RL–seems to be in USC’s use of Spring admits or even 2nd year admits. Some legacies whose scores/grades come close to the mark (gpas in the range of 3.5-3.8, scores 1980-2100) will receive an admission to USC to start Spring semester. Not all Spring admits fall in this category, but we’ve seen many who do. Spring is not a desirable entry-point for many HS seniors. They would, naturally, wish to start college in the fall. I wonder if USC offers these open spots (many students leave campus in Spring for junior year Study Abroad so housing openings change) to legacy students who are internally motivated to be Trojans enough that they are willing to take these spots. I don’t know! But in these cases, anecdotal type info (so nothing official!) seems to indicate legacy status likely is considered or it’s a huge coincidence. Not all alumni families find this delayed start a wonderful option, and their students matriculate elsewhere, but many put up with it. The good news here is that in the past, several of these students get bumped up to Fall starts. Other students have found ways to do amazing things in their gap semesters. And by far, all the Spring admits to USC, whether legacy or not, uniformly feel they made a great decision to attend USC and feel very good about making friends and blending right in. I don’t mean to frighten anyone at all. But I mention all this to explain how legacy seems to factor into some of these admissions decisions–and yet not in the way that some might think when they first read the encouraging USC blogs. </p>

<p>The last thing I want to do is diss USC, who I feel does the best possible job in sorting out the interests of various parties, including their own institution’s need for excellent students, and their alumni’s desire to continue their family’s happy relationship with the university. But those member of CC who frequent the USC forum for any amount of time have seen very unhappy, shocked and angry alumni parents posting that their great student was somehow denied. I tend to favor a cold dash of reality right now–before hopes get set to a feverishly high level. </p>

<p>Every legacy applicant should certainly have hope! And they may even get a little extra tip among equally excellent candidates when it comes to the final decision. But legacy students with lower than midpoint stats and no extraordinarily compelling honors/activities please understand that in the past, there have been many disappointing results. Stay positive, but do remind yourself and your alum parents that the school has been making a massive shift in selectivity and it’s important to have a wide range of schools on your list.</p>

<p>Great stuff, madbean.</p>

<p>Most schools could fill their ranks solely with legacies - which is not desirable for any college attempting to maintain a broad base of outreach. But I have heard that USC does reach out to some of the well-qualified legacy students about following a prescribed set of coursework and transferring at a later date. Some on the boards have called it the “Trojan Transfer” plan. I know that happens at other schools as well. It calms the waters with alum, but it also offers another way “in” for students who are truly qualified and can’t be accommodated on the first admissions attempt.</p>

<p>I suspect that sometimes happens for non-legacy students who are interesting as well.</p>

<p>Having said that - Madbean is right on the money - at colleges across the country there are too many well-qualified candidates for too few slots. I think, personally, the Common App is fueling the explosive increase in applications because students who - in the past - would have applied to a handful of colleges, can now apply to many.</p>

<p>Madbean for President!</p>

<p>Wheaty!! hehe. Actually, I prefer to be Queen.</p>

<p>:) I second that. Long live Queen Madbean for her guidance and uncommon wit!</p>

<p>It can be exasperating to wait and wait for decision letters to come, and naturally applicants and parents are trying to figure out what sort of students USC is looking for. I find it valuable to look through past years of applicants and the decisions made to get a glimpse of USC’s historical data for admissions. The trouble, however, with looking at self-reported info on CC is the pool of info is limited to those who would come to cc in the first place, the fact that anonymous students can report any sort of number to mess with folks’ heads–hey, it’s the internet, and those who are denied are much less interested in posting their results–which means we do not get the full representation of just how many very qualified students get thin envelopes. In addition, self-reporting on cc only gives a capsule of what the adcom sees. As noted elsewhere, the portfolios, auditions, and other supplements for talent-based Schools cannot be properly reckoned by reading these results threads either.</p>

<p>Still. It can be enlightening to sift through the numbers and get a sense of the decisions from previous years.</p>

<p>So, with all those disclaimers…here are a few links to get you started:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1451616-fall-2013-usc-decisions-stats-only-thread-congratulations.html?highlight=official+decisions[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1451616-fall-2013-usc-decisions-stats-only-thread-congratulations.html?highlight=official+decisions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1298985-official-university-southern-california-class-2016-rd-thread.html?highlight=official+decisions[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1298985-official-university-southern-california-class-2016-rd-thread.html?highlight=official+decisions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/852880-stats-only-usc-decisions-2010-a.html?highlight=official+decisions[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/852880-stats-only-usc-decisions-2010-a.html?highlight=official+decisions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>To round out the list for your research:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1278469-usc-fall-2012-stats-only-decisions.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1278469-usc-fall-2012-stats-only-decisions.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1074764-usc-fall-2011-stats-only-decisions.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/1074764-usc-fall-2011-stats-only-decisions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I recommend starting by looking at the LAST several pages of each of those threads to see the amazing students who received bad news - it is no surprise to see that amazing students have been accepted, what brings you back to earth is seeing how very well qualified many of the (over 35,000 in 2013) rejected applicants were. As always, many thanks to those who received bad news and posted to help future applicants understand those realities.</p>

<p>As always, the best of luck to all of you :)</p>

<p>^^Thanks alamemom. </p>

<p>I think the veterans around here are hoping that all applicants/families just keep in mind that selectivity has increased so much in the past two decades at USC. With so many more thousands of great students applying to a few dozen great schools, it’s only realistic to recognize how challenging it’s becoming to be admitted to any of the top ~30 universities and LACs.</p>

<p>Still!!! About 9000 thick envelopes go out to admitted freshmen each season. That’s a lot of good news to go around.</p>

<p>Bumping to add more info, speculation, thoughts on reading the admissions tea leaves.</p>

<p>Last year, USC’s Dean of Admissions, Timothy Brunhold, gave the following quotes to the Daily Trojan newspaper about the incoming class. And also, when USC was mailing out their admissions decisions at the end of March, Mr. Brunhold, posted the following information: (I have suggested ways to interpret how his comments might inform us on what USC is looking for, so my thoughts follow his official points. Others may have better info or more logical deductions, so please jump in.)</p>

<p>First, the article:</p>

<p>“USC’s fall 2013 entering freshman class is shaping up to be the most impressive in the university’s 133-year history,” said Timothy Brunold, USC’s dean of admission.</p>

<p>The class will include students from 144 countries outside the United States.</p>

<p>45 percent of admitted students are from California, with 17 percent representing foreign countries and the remaining 38 percent from the other 49 states.</p>

<p>Two-thirds of USC undergraduates currently receive some form of financial aid.</p>

<p>According to USC, the university also continues to offer “what it believes to be the largest pool of university-funded financial aid of any private university in the country.”</p>

<p>“The group of students we have selected is characterized by unprecedented levels of diversity: ethnic, geographic and socioeconomic.” said Brunold. </p>

<p>The majority of admitted freshmen are in the top 10 percent of their high school’s graduating class, 75 percent have standardized test scores at or above the 95th percentile, and their average unweighted high school GPA is 3.82 (on a 4-point scale).</p>

<p>“I am confident that our faculty will be pleased to teach this incredibly bright, talented and impressive group of young adults,” said Brunold.</p>

<p>Here is another report of what he posted, and my own speculation on what it means:</p>

<p>And speaking of incredible students, here are just a few details about this year’s admitted freshman class:</p>

<p>• 19.6% of applicants were admitted</p>

<p>–About 1 out of 5 of the 47,358 applicants were admitted last cycle, overall–yet some of the more highly competitive Schools/majors have much lower odds. So… yikes. Hang in there.</p>

<p>• More than 3,100 different high schools are represented</p>

<p>–As a rule, if USC Admissions is bragging a bit about a fact like this, we might assume they seek out students from a very diverse set of sending schools. If your school rarely has applicants to USC, <em>and</em> you are an in-range academically competitive student and you make it very clear USC is a top choice for you, this could be good news.</p>

<p>On the other hand, USC reports in their Freshman Profile:</p>

<p>Most Represented Public High Schools:
PV Peninsula HS; Rolling Hills Estates, CA 21 matriculating
Palos Verdes HS; Palos Verdes Estates, CA 18
Henry M. Gunn HS; Palo Alto, CA 18
Arcadia HS; Arcadia, CA 17
Torrey Pines HS; San Diego, CA 16
Saratoga HS; Saratoga, CA 15</p>

<p>Most Represented Independent /Parochial Schools:
Harvard-Westlake; North Hollywood, CA 16
Punahou School; Honolulu, HI 16
Loyola HS; Los Angeles, CA 15
Flintridge Prep; La Ca</p>

<p>Just a note about recruited athletes…</p>

<p>In the freshmen class there are relatively few recruited athletes. Out of 2922 freshmen my guess is around 200 of them were recruited athletes. Due to NCAA rules there are only 15/17 football players. The entire women’s golf team, almost the entire cross country team (women) and many on the water polo and tennis teams are honor students, including being on the Dean’s List.</p>

<p>Here are just a few examples of some recruited athletes and what they have achieved in the classroom:</p>

<p>In 2013 four on the small women’s golf team were national All American Scholars. These scholars were required to have a cumulative GPA above 3.5.</p>

<p>Eight rowers won All Pac 12 academic honors.</p>

<p>Jackie Dion on the cross country team, along with nine others, won All Pac 12 academic honors. Jackie led the team with a GPA of 3.93. She has a gerontology major with two minors in Chinese and Italian.</p>

<p>Alex Lendrum was on the SC swim team. He has a GPA of 3.76 as a biochemistry major.</p>

<p>Flora Bolonyai won honors last year as a graduating senior. She was an All American and joined three others on the women’s water polo team as academic stars. She earned a 3.47 with a double major in mathematics and economics. She was awarded a coveted Pac-12 Postgraduate Scholarship.</p>

<p>Madbean…thanks for all of your information. My son is a senior this year at USC, and of course my D is hoping to get accepted to USC in this current round of applicants. I did not fully understand the legacy situation at USC, having heard various accounts, so thank you for clarifying. My D has applied to many other competitive schools, and has received some acceptances via EA…I think because she felt that if she was admitted to USC it might be solely due to her legacy status. Good to know that is not true…that she has to stand on her own (which she certainly will with her own accomplishments). I also wondered about the less desirable Spring admit process…personally we would find that an unattractive option, but understand how that might appease alumni! Anyway, thank you for such an enlightening post!</p>

<p>…</p>

<p>Bump.</p>

<p>For all those who are posting chance-me threads for USC, please read through this entire thread and you will be able to chance yourself.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

<p>Bump–</p>

<p>Read from the first post to get a lot of answers on figuring out your chances for admission to USC. Best of luck.</p>

<p>Is it more competitive to be admitted to the School of Engineering?</p>