What are Public Ivies

College Search & Selection
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<p>sefago, you still did not address my point. Did you or did you not apply to Cambridge? Did you or did you not apply to Cal Tech? If you think Cambridge or Caltech is famous, why did you not apply to either or both schools? </p>

<p>The general student body of Berkeley is smart, contrary to what you and hawkette (and her people) are saying. I agree that HYPSM students are smarter, on average. But to say that the Berkeley student body is just average is a statement of fallacy. Look, 99% of the student body at Berkeley belongs to the top 10% of their HS class. That’s an impressive stat.</p>

<p>A couple of months ago, hawkette and her people claimed that Emory University is more prestigious than Berkeley, and Emory students are smarter than Berkeley students. I asked them how that can be. They said Emory’s average SAT scores are higher. I told them that’s not how the Berkeley admissions operate. For Berkeley, GPA is a more reliable tool than SATs. </p>

<p>Since hawkette and her people believe that Emory is prestigious and the general student body of Emory is smart, then let’s compare their stats to Berkeley’s. </p>

<p>Average GPA of Freshmen students
3.93 - Berkeley
3.84 - Emory</p>

<p>Acceptance Rate
22.3% - Berkeley
28% - Emory</p>

<p>Percentage of students in the top 10 of their HS class
99% - Berkeley
87% - Emory</p>

<p>SAT Scores Math
650-770 Berkeley
660-750 Emory</p>

<p>SAT Scores Writing
640-750 Berkeley
650–740 Emory</p>

<p>Now, tell me, is Emory more prestigious than Berkeley and are Emory students smarter than Berkeley students based on the stats? It doesn’t look yes to me. </p>

<p>If you think Emory is prestigious and their students are smart, why is Berkeley not prestigious and why are their students not smart?</p>

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<p>JohnAdams12 </p>

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I still think that hawkette is a very credible poster. I think that many of her threads are quite informative and entertaining (in a good way.) But I also think that she happens to be just not that informed about the schools in California especially Berkeley that’s why she sounds absurd every time she tries to comment about Berkeley.</p>

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<p>Please examine your statistics closely</p>

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<p>I never said Berkeley is not prestigious. I consider it in high regard and better than Emory. However I dont believe it is a top ten school. However do check your stats more carefully.</p>

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<p>I double checked the stats and they’re accurate unless the school websites wrote something inaccurate the figures were not doctored.
<a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp[/url]”>http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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In your own personal opinion Berkeley is not a top 10 school. But for the opinion of most scholars, it is. Even the top employers think that to be so too. And, no offense meant, but between you and the scholars/employers, I’d rather take their opinion.</p>

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<p>Wow, Impressed, I see that UC Berkeley really improved its SAT scores of enrolled students. Could it be because of the doubling of OOS students to 23% of the class?</p>

<p>[College</a> Search - University of California: Berkeley - Cal - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>for Fall 2009:
SAT Critical Reading: 590 - 710<br>
SAT Math: 640 - 760<br>
SAT Writing: 610 - 720 </p>

<p><a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp[/url]”>http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For Fall 2010:
Reading: 620-740
Math: 650-770
Writing: 640-750</p>

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<p>Which then begs the question of what academic prestige as derived from research excellence - and apart from other benefits such as superior networking or access to recruiters - means for the average undergraduate. </p>

<p>Since you said that you were an average chemical engineering undergraduate at Berkeley who happened to be taught by a number of world-famous NAE members, I’ll invoke a question that speaks specifically to your background: why don’t Berkeley chemical engineers earn higher starting salaries than they do? In 2009, Berkeley chemical engineers made an average starting salary of $69k, which is not significantly higher than the average starting salary for all chemical engineers nationwide after adjusting for the higher living costs of Northern California/ Silicon Valley (where the bulk of Berkeley chemical engineers will work). If studying under star engineering professors were so valuable, you would think that employers would pay more for students who have done so, right? So why don’t they? </p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/ChemEngr.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/ChemEngr.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Most</a> lucrative college majors - highest starting salaries - Jul. 24, 2009](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/highest_starting_salaries/index.htm]Most”>http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/highest_starting_salaries/index.htm)</p>

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<p>For undergrad, not really. The very best California high school seniors tend to prefer HYPSM, just as do the best high school seniors from any state. While there are some students who choose Berkeley over those other schools for financial reasons or for specific programs - a star football or basketball player might rationally choose Berkeley over HYPM for the athletic scholarship and pro prep - the fact remains that most students at Berkeley are there because they couldn’t get into HYPSM, or didn’t even apply because they knew they wouldn’t get in.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to put a shout out for my son - one of those top California students that picked Berkeley as his top choice… I don’t know about it being a “public ivy” but it’s a damn good university no matter what one calls it.</p>

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<p>sakky, actually you are wrong on this.</p>

<p>A quick review of the very same website that you provided shows that most of the ChE’s from UC Berkeley do NOT take a job in the Bay area</p>

<p>oops!</p>

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<p>I don’t know about other schools, but UC Berkeley accepts SAT Scores from one sitting. They don’t superscore. So that affects their SAT stats</p>

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<p>sakky, MIT’s 2009 ChE average starting salary was $66,578, lower than UC Berkeley’s ChE’s $69,000 that you are claiming.</p>

<p><a href=“http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation09.pdf[/url]”>http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation09.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>so what does this do to your comments below?</p>

<p>By the way, in case you don’t know it MIT’s ChE’s department is considered the best ChE department in the country within the best engineering school in the country.</p>

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<p>A reflection on what makes UC Berkeley special, and the challenges it faces:
[The</a> end of UC Berkeley as we know it in theory](<a href=“http://lucatrevisan.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2009/06/18/the-end-of-uc-berkeley-as-we-know-it/]The”>The end of UC Berkeley as we know it | in theory)</p>

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<p>Most of those figures especially those in the top 10% are questionable. And there are tons of schools in california. Most schools in the US dont even rank FYI</p>

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<p>Scholars base their information on graduate school rep. I know this from experience. They would always measure a school based on the reputation of its graduate programs. Thats why they are “scholars.” As for top companies- be more specific. Which companies- banks, consultancy firms, engineering companies, publishing firms lol. Never have I heard of Berkeley being a top ten school really. There is HYPSM, then UChicago and then a bunch of Ivies before you get to Berkeley</p>

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<p>My daughter didn’t apply to Berkeley. (She thought it was a GREAT school, simply a bit too liberal for her and consequently not a good fit.) She did, however, apply as an OOS to 2 publics: UVA and UNC. She was accepted at both along with some other great schools. Lots of ivy-qualified OOS (and IS for that matter) kids choose schools like UCB, UVA, UCLA, and UMich because they want the “whole package” so to speak. These high achievers typically aren’t your grade-grinding nerds but the “Mr. and Mrs. Everything” in high school (not only president of several clubs as is typical of the ivy candidates but also captain of the football team, captain of the cheerleading squad, Prom King/Queen, etc.). In short, they are multi-dimensional excelling BOTH academically and socially. It’s quite difficult for OOS kids to gain acceptance to some if these prominent state schools – they’re stats speak for themselves. Are they doomed because they chose this route over other selective privates? I definitely don’t think so.</p>

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<p>Sefago, you never have heard the truth then. That would be your problem.
The former Stanford President would start your re-education.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/pres-provost/president/speeches/961206gcfallow.html[/url]”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/pres-provost/president/speeches/961206gcfallow.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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In my experience, Ivy League students are much more well-rounded than the students at Bthe top 5 public schools. They were all student government officers, club presidents, sports team captains, etc. to a greater extent than students at UCB, UVA, UNC, UCLA and UMich.</p>

<p>Remember, admission to state schools is very numbers-based while the Ivy League admissions process is much more holistic. You essentially have to be involved in your school or surrounding community in an intensive manner in order to get accepted unless you have national/international academic achievements.</p>

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<p>I have seen this before. And all this has said is that it can be argued that “Mich and Berkeley” are top 6. Of course with no laying down of the argument of how. Usually I deal with concrete arguments and not suppositions. Statements are not in anyway concrete arguments. And this doesn’t matter anyways. It can be argued that any university is a top 6 based on any chosen criteria and the premise for such arguments can be validated. </p>

<p>As I mentioned earlier academics think highly of Berkeley. Makes sense- most of the people who they did their thesis under or who instructed them would be likely to be Berkeley graduates anyways. As I said I don’t believe its a top ten school at the undergraduate level.</p>

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<p>@jc40: The UCs (and UMich) are both so expensive OOS that they rival elite privates in cost. The same is not true of many other public schools, such as UNC.</p>

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<p>I think to say that those that attend Ivy League schools are more well rounded then those that attend top public schools is untrue. I also think saying the opposite would be untrue. All who attend any of these universities are academically qualified well rounded individuals. </p>

<p>What it comes down to is a personal choice about fit. For my son who is a nationally ranked athlete, it was about the strength of the school along with the social aspect of the school. He wanted a large, diverse university in or near a big city with a top engineering school. He also wanted a big time sports program and let’s face it, the Ivy League isn’t known for that. Berkeley was the perfect fit for him. What bothers me is those that imply that the students going to these public universities are not as bright as those attending the Ivy League. In my son’s case, that is simply not true. He could have gone anywhere. He WANTED to go to Berkeley. I am certain there are other students like my son.</p>

<p>However I acknowledge that not everyone in a top public university could attend an Ivy. But that is what makes public universities great. I think it is important for really bright students to learn how to relate to everyone, not just other bright students. The kids at Berkeley are all bright or they wouldn’t be at Berkeley, but the type of student body at Cal is completely different from the type of student body at say, MIT. It is that difference in student bodies that made my son choose Cal. He wanted to be able to interact with all kinds of students and this will be easily accomplished at Cal. Top publics and Ivy League schools are very different, but they are both outstanding. I think we should leave it at that.</p>