What are quotas doing to our mindset?

Applying to College
1

<p>Here on CC, more than other places, we are all truly cognizant of the advantage URMs have over the typical white or Asian male. If a URM is applying to a top school, they can have lower stats, weaker ec's, and cutout essays about how rough their life is.
Based on these facts, my racial prejudices have sadly, but honestly, been exacerbated.
When I visit tip top schools (Ivy, etc.) I find myself looking at the student body and thinking "Wow, these whites and asians must really have done something spectacular or must be ridiculously intelligent. These URMs? They may have been great students, but I know many would not be here had their skin been any other color." </p>

<p>I know this is not a ubiquitous principle. Perhaps I am even an anomaly in my mindset. But honestly, I feel that the whole diversity benefit is actually embarrassing and an insult to the URMs. If they thought it through they would realize, "I'm a respectable URM, why do I need a crutch to be accepted to a top tier school? Am I less qualified, less intelligent, and subordinate to the white and asian majorities?" </p>

<p>If colleges truly wanted equality and respectable admissions, they would be race-blind. Read the essays, analyze the stats, check over the extracurriculars, but ignore the skin color. </p>

<p>How do you all feel about it? What are your arguments? Have you found the same prejudices to be true for you?</p>

2

<p>URMs get an admission boost not because universities want equality, but rather because they want diversity. This isn’t to say that this practice is unfair; universities select applicants based on what the colleges think that the students offer to the school. If universities feel that a diverse student population contributes more to the success of a school than high scores and outstanding EC’s, then they are perfectly justified in acting in this manner.</p>

3

<p>Ah, but when you look at the white and Asian faces, why aren’t you thinking athlete, legacy, son of billionaire or senator, from Alaska or N. Dakota? There are many more of those kids than blacks, Hispanics or Native Americans.</p>

4

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<p>No. Only racists assume that URMs get into top schools because of their skin color.</p>

5

<p>You know, if they get in, they get in. There’s not much you can do about it. It’s not like scores are significantly lower, URM candidates tend to be more or less qualified for a top college anyways. Yes, it is unfair that they sometimes get a boost up, but sometimes it is also socioeconomic factors that hinder their academic abilities because URMs tend to be on the lower spectrum. If colleges changed their judgement into considering socioeconomic factors instead of race, we’d be better off, but the rich and privileged would probably be as outraged as people are now about race. Maybe there might be less uproar, but there are people out there who are snobs. Oh well, you can’t please everyone.</p>

6

<p>No. People who are aware and mindful of the admissions process do more than assume, they know that many URMs are their only because of their skin. Move along.</p>

7

<p>@Nihil
Well it’s not like they pick up a random URM from the street and say “Hey! You’re admitted into Yale.” I really do not believe that they’re there just because of their skin, they may be a little bit “less” qualified, but I am sure that their stats show that they are able to handle college level work. Yes, they may not get in if they were Caucasian, but I’d call it a boost rather than the first determining factor.</p>

8

<p>I can agree with you on that WarmGesture. The best of their race is likely who will end up at the ivies. It is just that generally the best of their race has lower stats than the typical ivy majorities (white/asian).</p>

9

<p>Nihil: you don’t address Waverly’s point in #3. Those other groups at Ivies have lesser stats and far outnumber URMs as a whole. What about your make up makes you look at a brown face and something grinds at you but you’ll easily look past the airhead development kid with blonde hair manning the spigot at the keg party? Please tell us.</p>

<p>Frankly, I hope you indeed get to an Ivy – just so you can lose some of your stereotypes.</p>

<p>And just to let you know, I’m the anti-stereotype in the other way. I was a mediocre (in Ivy terms) SAT scoring Chinese but got into all Ivies applied. I’m sure most of my African American classmates had better SATs than I did. I guess I beat out some other higher scoring Asians. Boo hoo.</p>

10

<p>I don’t think that minorities have a better chance of getting in than white students, and most schools do not lower their standards for minorities. Also, listing your ethnicity on an application is optional. So if people are in anyway afraid of being assessed differently based on their ethnicity, they can just leave that question blank.</p>

11

<p>Nihility: </p>

<p>Here’s another thought for you: about 85% of US colleges solely admit on the features your touting: “deservedness” based on metrics of GPA and tests. (Many European and Asian colleges practice this as well.) In your calculus, high scoring non URMs can and do get into these US schools in droves. But why are we even having this discussion? </p>

<p>You’re attacking the admissions policies of a few schools. And not just any schools – very highly regarded and so-called “prestigious” ones such as the Ivies and their ilk. But why are you even upset? Because you feel you may be left out. OK. I get it.</p>

<p>But guess what? I posit that among the ingredients that make these schools so highly regarded is a mixture of many things. Super resources in facilities, faculty – stemming from huge endowments. Great tradition and reputation. Fantastic alumni groups and support. </p>

<p>Oh, and let’s not forget the students themselves right? It’s they who people the community service projects, work in the research labs, write the plays and lyrics and sports columns, carve and paint the art pieces, have the late night bull sessions about everything under the sun. And how are these marvelous collections of students generated? By taking the top 1200 or 1500 scoring applicants? No friggen way.</p>

<p>This body is incredible in large part due to the methods and admissions strategies of the schools themselves. This means bringing in scholar athletes, super musicians, super scientists, great student leaders, actors, singers, outstanding examples of overcoming unusual circumstances, people from across the globe – and yes, even the occasional marginal child/grandchild of a wealthy super-donor. And some of these people will have brown skin too.</p>

<p>You got a problem with that? Well you can’t have your cake and eat it too. In your world, you’d demand that these colleges --* turn into the other 85%.* But here’s the rub. It’s these 15% that are the ones that mostly populate your (take your pick) so-called Best Colleges lists.</p>

<p>If you want to go to a school that doesn’t give preferences to athletes and legacies – go ahead. Plenty to choose from. But don’t tell my alma mater to change because you perceive some sort of unfairness to you. I tell you, if the Ivies I applied to were 50% wealthy white and 45% Asian, I wouldn’t have wanted to attend them. And they wouldn’t be very “prestigious” either.</p>

12

<p>As much as I hate to participate in this sad excuse for an affirmative action thread (most are more even handed and informed), I can’t help but wonder; if you believe the usual about race in admissions, why lump your presumably white self with Asians? What do you suppose they think when they look at you?</p>

13

<p>You make valid points T6, but it seems like, from that you’re saying, AA doesn’t exist at all…but it does. I’m sure everyone has a lot to offer to any college, but in general AA does happen sometimes and that’s where we have a problem. I’m not saying that the current people there are “products” of AA, but we can’t ignore that it does happen in certain admission processes.</p>

14

<p>Meh I used to hate AA with a burning passion. But now, I’m actually kinda glad that there’s AA despite the serious disadvantages that Asians have because it’s a way better experience meeting people of many different cultural backgrounds than just hanging out with only Asians or whites. I’m sure I would hate being in a school that’s 80% Asian.</p>

15

<p>Why is AA a problem?</p>

16

<p>WarmGesture: I’m not asserting that different sub groups get evaluated under different conditions – I fully acknowledge that. The heart of my argument is whose right is it to set those evaluation criteria? I firmly believe it lies with these private institutions – and let the market be their judge. If their policies are bringing about such a hurtful result to society, its graduates, its endowment – let that motivate them to change their admissions standards. According to the OP, one would believe these “injustices” either are or should ruin them. I say the facts bear witness to the opposite.</p>

<p>According to the OP, his magic school would never have an Afghan refugee as a student; a super scholar who works 30 hrs /week at his family’s farm in Oklahoma or the violin prodigy whose native language isn’t English. I dunno about you but if these were otherwise outstanding applicants except for some SAT points, I’d love to live and learn with them and to engage them at college. And the top college admissions officers feel the same.</p>

17

<p>This discussion can be consolidated in the FAQ and discussion thread: </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1228264-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-9-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1228264-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-9-a.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Please note that quotas by race are strictly illegal in college admission. The first few posts in the FAQ thread link to the relevant laws and court cases interpreting them. New posts to that thread in the last twenty-four hours link to a recent guidance letter to colleges sent out by the federal Department of Education.</p>