D says she wants to be a teacher. This could change, of course.
Our state flagship has a five-year bachelor-master teaching program. D’s grades and scores will get her into something much more highly ranked than the state flagship. However, at the state flagship, she would likely be in the honors program there.
Is there a reason to spend so much more money on a more highly ranked school? Can someone tell me the reasons why people wouldn’t go to the state flagship and save a ton of money?
I guess I want to know if kids who could get into a more highly ranked school would end up unhappy at a state flagship.
Tens of thousands of kids are at their flagships and most could have gone to another school. Higher ranked? Probably, but on what basis? Many kids WANT to go to their flagships, and thrive there. My nephew was admitted to Brown, Cornell, NYU and several others, but went to his flagship (even turned down the honors program). I went to my flagship. My daughter goes to an OOS flagship and loves it. Other daughter goes to a smaller tech school and loves it. Very possible to love your school even if it isn’t ‘elite’ in someone’s ranking.
None of my kids teachers went to schools that are particularly highly ranked. Most districts I am aware of pay teachers the same regardless of where they went to college.
As to your last question, there are four or five threads a week on that general topic. Depends on the kid.
Teachers are certified by the states. Many states have different education requirements for teachers. There are some states that accept credentials from other states. It’s a bit complicated when thinking about all the states. You should probably talk to some people in education departments in your state to find out what the requirements are, and what other states she could teach in with a credential from your state.
Another reason: kids’ horizons and experiences can be greatly enhanced by going to school in a different part of the country. That was the big reason I actually encouraged my own kids to go out of state. But that was a very personal preference – as a family we truly value travel and getting out of your comfort zone – and the understanding was that they had to get enough in FA to make the price tag reasonably similar to what we’d pay instate.
^ On the other hand, if she changes her mind, the flagship may offer a broader range of academic and professional fields from which to choose another major.
Also, even though a more highly ranked school’s name might be known among educated persons or in certain industries, often its general name recognition is only local or regional. A lower ranked flagship might have greater name recognition due to its size, athletic programs, etc.
@katliamom your point is well taken, as is yours @PurpleTitan. The fact that she may change her mind is a big one.
How would I go about identifying schools that might give enough merit aid so that the cost is equal to our state flagship? And, if she has to downgrade so that she can find this kind of aid, is she really better off at those schools? (They may be out of state but not sure if their reputations would be as good.) I really don’t know how to best identify schools that may give that much merit aid.
Reasons not to attend depend in part on the particular flagship. Nonetheless, a top student can thrive at any reasonably good school. My daughter choose to attend attend our flagship (not especially highly ranked) in the honors program over several more highly ranked LACs. Her decision had nothing but great outcomes for her. She was very actively involved with various student organizations, had leadership positions and great internships, graduated debt-free, and graduated summa and Phi Beta Kappa. When she applied to law school, she was admitted to four T-14 law schools, received full tuition at four top 20 law schools, and near full tuition at two other top 20 schools.
She had a roommate who was wait-listed at a top private school and who didn’t get enough aid to easily afford Michigan, her own state’s flagship. As a result, she accepted a near full scholarship to our much lower ranked flagship. Throughout her time at our flagship, she was embarrassed that she was attending such a lower ranked school and refused to tell any of her friends back home where she was attending college. Yet, she also graduated debt-free and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa as a junior. Today, she attends a T-14 law school. Among other friends of my daughter in the honors program, one received a Fullbright and another received a very prestigious national science award and now is in grad school at Harvard.
Overall, their outcomes were just as good or better than their several of their high school friends who attended much higher ranked universities, and they graduated with little or no debt. Again, good students can thrive at any reasonably good school.
Also note that McGill (which I consider to be akin to good big publics like UCLA/UW-Madison/UNC) may not cost much more than in-state tuition for some majors (the ones that lead to an Arts or Arts&Science degree and some other degrees). At least right now. However, like many big publics, it is sink-or-swim with big classes, tough grading, little hand-holding and also little in the way of services.
Also don’t know whether it would be OK if your D wants to become a teacher.
Our boys both attend(ed) small, private LACs. Because of our income, their colleges are much less expensive for us vs. our state flagship. The only financial aid offered from UNH was loans.
My younger daughter won’t be attending the flagship because their nursing program is weak. While the program at a Satellite campus is good, it’s it’s in the middle if the city… Niot something she feels comfortable with.
My older daughter wanted to get away from people from her high school/ general area . Something almost impossible at the state flagship if she wanted to be in a sorority which she did. All the Jewish girls from our area are recruited by one of two Jewish sororities. It’s almost impossible to get a bid from any other sorority which means she’d be living with 20 or so girls she knew at home.
My son wants to be a teacher at a community college so he’ll need a grad degree in his field. When he was 10 or 12 I tried to talk him into schools like Lehigh and Davidson and so forth. I couldn’t understand why he wouldn’t be interested in schools like that. But he made a very good point in the middle of all the discussions.
His point was, if he wants to be a CC teacher he really doesn’t need a big league, high price tag, elite, bust your butt to get in education. He went to the local CC, he is now a junior home for summer at Florida State U., not the state flagship, that would be UF, although I don’t think our state has a flagship (unless you ask snobby UF fans), they are essentially identical schools. He is happy, he is thriving, a public cost pennies comparatively, he has a bright futures s-ship, the rest is prepaid on 529’s and educ IRA, and he is doing real well in his summer job (the one I told him not to take).
I think your D would be happy to be at a state flagship especially if it is an honors program. I think she’d be very happy. You are right, she might not be a teacher. That is a risk. But if she really wants to be a teacher a state FS would be a nice fit for her.
@TooYoungForThis, my daughter applied Early Action, so she had the OOS’s school’s offer even before she had to apply for the instate flagship. She also applied to OOS publics in nearby states which offer lower OOS tuition for residents of my state.
All the OOS schools she applied to were big flagships so the issue of ranking was negligible; actually one might have been ranked lower than our flagship, but my daughter and I thought it would offer a more interesting overall experience.
In general, I’m a fan of the big flagship schools: most offer good to very good academics at a price that’s usually reasonable for state residents. Had we lived in, for example, California, I would have encouraged my kids to go to one of the UCs. But I live in Colorado, with one flagship in a town fairly close to where we live. It’s also a bit of a party school and not terribly diverse. Going out of state offered interesting alternatives: more urban environments, greater diversity, a totally different part of the country.
Avoid those 5 year Masters programs for teachers!!!
Teaching job candidates bring one of two things to the table:
either experience-- which makes them more expensive to hire, since teachers are graded on a pay scale
or a low price tag, but without the experience.
She’ll graduate with no experience, but a much more expensive job candidate than the other newbies. That will make her a liability to some (though not all) school districts in tough economic times.
There’s no way to predict which candidates will find success in the classroom. So many school districts are very hesitant to take a chance on an expensive new teacher when they could take a chance a less expensive new teacher.
That doesn’t mean to avoid the school, just to take a long hard look at the 5 year program. Colleges promote it, since it means your tuition dollars for grad school stay with them.
As to the state flagship-- or any other school-- take a look at:
How quickly they put the ed majors into the classroom for observations. It should be EARLY.
How many hours they spend in those classroom. More is much better.
Their job placement success rates. It’s a horrible job market for teachers right now, with the exception of Physics, Chem and Secondary Math in most parts of the country.
Her ability to receive dual certification, or to at least minor, in something— say literacy or reading or something that will give her an edge over the other candidates.
Her ability to work on a paid or volunteer basis with local schools-- could she possibly coach debate or run the school play? Anything that will add something extra to her resume is a plus.
The reality is that the “teacher colleges” and highly ranked programs tend not to graduate teachers who achieve any more success in the classroom than graduates of other schools. It’s about the teacher, not the school.
State flagships are often REALLY big. For some it is not a good fit.
Smaller schools are not always more expensive. You need to run the NPCs with your daughter’s stats. She may qualify for a large scholarship that makes the school less than the flagship.
I would think an aspiring teacher needs to learn by example. Look for a school that focuses on teaching undergrads. She will not witness as much excellent teaching if she attends a large flagship with lots of her courses taught by TAs.
My state flagship was WAAAY more money out of pocket than Northwestern. Bad state fiscal management has put UIUC out of reach for us. Fortunately NU is needs met, so it is less money, and affordable.
Your son should do a lot of research into the realities of being a CC teacher. One, very few community colleges hire full time faculty. Most hires are adjuncts who do NOT make a living wage unless they teach at a couple of schools and thus cobble together a decent salary. Two, the few community college professors who do get full time jobs often DO have advanced degrees (even PhDs) from “big league high-price-tag” schools.