Going to college 10 miles from their mom was a deal breaker for our first two kids. We shall see with our youngest.
@ katliamom,
I think its possible things are different at other CC’s but certainly, at the three CC’s I’ve worked at, over the last 20 years, including serving on more interview committees than I can remember, CC’s do hire faculty with masters degrees to tenure track positions because that is the credential that the accrediting agencies, such as SACS, set as the minimum.
Not all CC’s are funded as well as the ones I’ve worked at, of course. Your perspective on the issue is valuable too. I do know of adjuncts who cobble together jobs at a couple of schools and my heart goes out to them to be honest. One gentleman I run into all the time in the adjunct break room, I am FT but I go in there to use the scantron machine, has a PhD in his field but can’t break in to a FT position. I don’t think he interviews well.
A masters degree is an advanced degree, by the way.
We do not generally do research and we certainly need not to do research to get tenure like the faculty at 4-year degree granting universities do. We do not have a research mission. Our mission is T&L based.
My son’s plan is to get his masters. Start tutoring and maybe even be a TA if he can get a position like that. Start as an adjunct and then secure a FT tenure track teaching position at a CC. I’ve had tenure at positions such as that in Texas and now in FL my home state. I work at the same CC I graduated from. The realities of this career path might have changed some, matter of perspective and opinion I suppose, but I feel pretty good about the path he’s on. He managed to secure a good job this summer. This is his second adult type job. He is having fun, working out, meeting people, hanging out with his high school friends, meeting girls easily and doing pretty much everything I want right now except cutting his dad gummed hair! If you have any advice for that, I’m all ears.
@GoNoles85, move him out of the South.
The shaggy dog look isn’t so popular elsewhere.
I am concerned that my DD would be just a number at any state flagship. I also have some concern of the impact that state budget cuts would have on the university (in my case it is in NY).
It may not be intended, but in these discussions about future teachers there often seems to be an undertone of “you ONLY want to be a teacher, so you don’t need the best possible education.” I find that very disturbing.
I’ve known good K-12 teachers with degrees from all kinds of schools, from state teacher’s colleges to the Ivy League. What they all have had in common is a high level of intellectual liveliness: engaged, lifelong learners themselves.
If your D can get what she needs to flower intellectually and socially at your state flagship at the best price, great. If for some reason she needs to go elsewhere to blossom, and you can afford it, then that’s a good reason to do so. I think people should be striving for the best educational experience for them that they can. And educational experience includes not just the classroom, but the environment: exposure to difference people with different experiences and different ideas, and so on.
I’d also pay careful attention to what @bjkmom says in #16. IME it is very difficult to enter teaching at the master’s level except through certain programs that include significant student teaching.
And, of course, she might easily change her mind.
My comments were in general and did not consider the OP’s mention of teaching.
Reasons not to go to the flagship?
Better financial deal from another school, OOS public, IS or OOS private, directional state U.
Comparable deal form another school that is a better fit.
Poor 4 year grad rate (great 6 yr) and you’re worried that you won’t have the money to fund extra semesters.
There’s a great post on the what do you wish the freshmen knew about careers thread concerning the wisdom of getting an MA to teach. If your state doesn’t require one (some do, most don’t), having one without experience may do nothing but price a candidate out of the market.
I was on interviewing committees to hire teachers for years. Our state requires a masters within a certain number of years. I don’t recall one time when a resume was put aside because the person had a masters degree instead of a bachelors.
The thing that got resumes moved aside was insufficient experience at the grade level for which we were hiring. Some folks had outstanding student teaching experiences at the right grade level. Others had employment history. Others worked as teaching assistants first…or tutors. Many did long term substitute positions.
We hired teachers from all sorts of colleges…public, private, instate, out of state.
we live in NY, as well, and my daughter is a young teacher. FWIW, which may not be much, connections made during student teaching were very important in the job search process. Those connections are not made when student teaching elsewhere. Also, it’s very hard for a new teacher to get hired in New York right now, and the only sure bet fields are high school math and upper level special education which can only be done with a master’s in New York State. My daughter turned down one of our state’s flagship because she hated the area, hated the campus, hated the weather and hated the architecture. Good luck with whatever your daughter decides!
@24,
Just for clarification, we are not scrimping on education. My son, to be a teacher and to enter his profession of choice, is going to have to be an expert in his field. He can get that from the in-state public he goes to and from the grad school he will go to. Getting an education, as has been pointed out hundreds of times here on college confidential, depends as much on the student as the institution. It will be a sad day when you can’t get a quality education at a public university. No one should ever have to apologize for going public.
I have nothing against private U’s but for my son, and my younger son who is 17, public U’s make more sense for us. A timex watch keeps the time just as well as a rolex does. We are not lacking in resources either, which is why, if you read my first post on this thread, you will see I tried to steer my son towards Lehigh, Davidson, Wake Forest, Etc. when he was younger but he wanted nothing to do with those fine schools.
Which brings me back to the OP’s topic. If the OP’s daughter wants more diversity than the close by public can provide that would be a good reason to venture OOS. It was the exact opposite problem for us. We wanted diversity, my wife is from a South American country, and if my son had gone OOS he would have not been around as much diversity as he wanted. Lehigh, for example, does not have a very diverse student body. In fact, back when we were looking, they were offering scholarships to attract diversity and made no bones about the fact that the current student body was seriously lacking in diversity.
And diversity isn’t just the demographics of the student body it could also refer to opportunities and experiences that might not be available at the close by public which could motivate the OP’s D to go somewhere else. That makes sense. Nothing wrong with that. Heck, if you ask me, we all should learn 2-3 languages in K-12 and learn parenting and tolerance skills and financial and credit skills too instead of memorizing who fought in the war of 1812 and the other nearly useful stuff that makes up k-12 education.
@bjkmom is right. If you want to find a teaching job, don’t get a master’s before you get the job. I went that route–got a BA and MA in my subject area and then completed the teacher ed program for certification after. I have had little success getting even interviews at public schools, though the privates are always happy to take me. My only public school job was with a district in dire distress–I was hired after school had started because a teacher was suspended at the beginning of the year. I don’t think I would have gotten that job if there weren’t so few candidates available to hire–it was also in the middle of nowhere. Being a new grad with no teaching experience is hard enough for candidates–can’t tell you how many interviews I had where I was told, “We hired the guy with experience–you were second” before I got my job. Adding a master’s degree onto that will make it harder to get a job, sadly. Also, assuming your daughter graduates with a degree and lands that first job, advise her to be in the city she wants to be FOR LIFE within the first 5 years because she will have a hard time moving after she starts climbing up the salary schedule. Those are the realities of teaching jobs in public K-12.
The reality is that in this economy getting a teaching job is incredibly difficult no matter what your credentials, even if you are willing to teach a subject that is less desirable or in a school that is less desirable. There are just too many teachers being graduated every year and too few retiring. Additionally, the various teaching fellows are making it much tougher for career teachers to get hired.
While this school may be the best economically, it may not have what she wants in a school(size, location, atmosphere)
Reason not to go: you can sometimes get more money at a private school. Case in point: UIUC, our state flagship would have been much more expensive for us than sending our kids to private schools. We got much more money from private colleges.
Out state flagship is more expensive than the colleges my kids are attending, when financial aid is factored in. Also, their private schools have much better facilities, smaller class size, etc.
I went to Hamilton College, then decided that I wanted to teach art. I put myself through another 3 years undergrad at MassArt (waiting tables), because I was told at the time that no one would hire me with a masters degree. The dual undergrad made me quite a strong candidate. Also, being nice helps - I try to be kind to all I meet, and the secretary at MassArt was the one responsible for calling possible candidates for long term substitute positions. A school called, and she called me. While I was well liked by my professors (received top honors) it was the secretary who helped me get my foot in the door. Don’t underestimate substitute teaching.
Last, whatever the department of education in your state tells you on the phone, get it in writing. I’ve heard horror stories of potential teachers being told one thing by one person, then another by another. Crazy.
Flagships vary, but they are all research universities. If the flagship you are considering has huge classes taught mostly by TAs, that is a consideration. To some that doesn’t matter, but I’d steer my own kids to LACs.
re above. I’d steer my kids towards research U’s instead of LACs because of the wider range of course opportunities and to interact with grad students closer in age. TA’s are often future professors and can be as good as those stuck in their rut for a long time.
However, a student most interested in teaching needs a school with good teaching programs. Be sure any schools considered do offer all courses/experiences required for credentialing. For example, Emory U doesn’t have the needed student teaching with its education major as someone I know found out (started there with a different major).
I may be simplistic (and biased because D is attending our in-state flagship university) but a student should go to the school that best fits their needs?
Perhaps the kid would change their mind about research and decide that teaching isn’t for them but research is, in which case a research university would likely be a better fit.
It could depend on the job opportunities. While flagships have job fairs, we had one of the head professors tell us there were more graduates than positions while a smaller private had over 90% job placement.