What are "smart but lazy" kids supposed to do with their lives?

Parents Forum
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<p>Couple of things. First, my brother, one of the smartest people I know, hated school. He went through a tech program and more than outearns me in his job. We call him a machine whisperer. Sometimes the issue isn’t “laziness” but that the traditional school path isn’t the right one. </p>

<p>Second, external motivation works for only so long. At some point, the drive has to come from within. In junior high and the first part of high school, you can encourage engagement with rewards or priveleges for performace, hoping that the lessons are internalized. </p>

<p>Third, kids learn what they live, to quote Doctor Phil (can’t believe I just did that as I’m not a fan). What can you and your W do? Make sure you model a good work ethic so he can see how important it is. Encourage him to hang around people with a good work ethic. </p>

<p>Although your son is a little too young to be making definite college plans yet, keep the idea of a gap year, where he has to work full time, on the back burner.</p>

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<p>We all know kids who seem really smart, but who appear to be throwing away their intelligence through laziness, lack of motivation, ADD (although I believe this label is often used as an excuse by undisciplined people…as often as big bones, fat gene or similar excuses are used by people like me to excuse overeating and lack of exercise LOL). We also all know kids who didn’t seem that smart comparatively, who achieve a lot through hard work, opportunities and luck. </p>

<p>Realistically, you can look at the alumni of any graduating high school class and you’ll see a lot of ordinary people holding down ordinary jobs. It’s pretty rare for even the smartest kids to achieve extraordinary successes…that’s why the extraordinary people stand out. Many parents on CC don’t seem to get it. I bet some of them were the parents who bragged about their early potty training, early talking, early walking, best coloring, etc. But you know, there are very few kids who graduate even from elementary school without being potty trained, talking, walking, or being able to color.</p>

<p>I take it with a grain of salt when any parent brags that their child does amazingly well at an amazing school, has perfect SATs, developed the cure for cancer, builds houses for homeless people on the weekends, has written an award winning novel, full scholarship at a top school, etc. Frankly, it’s no big deal to me. In 20-years, their wonder kids will be bringing home a paycheck and wondering how to pay for college for their own kids. The doctors will be worrying about medical malpractice costs and whether a partner committed malpractice or might take early retirement and screw up the partnership. The lawyers will be burned out from working 16 hour days and worrying about losing their clients to the firm breathing down their necks. They will be balding, greying, wrinkling, etc. The CFO’s will be worried about their next SEC filing, etc. etc. etc. </p>

<p>Life is the great leveler. The old addage that “he who dies with the most toys wins” isn’t true. I came from near poverty, and became a professional. I’ve got a lot of toys. It doesn’t mean that I’m any happier than the person on the other side of town who is a parochial school teacher or garbageman, worrying about paying the bills and how their kids are doing. It doesn’t mean that my kids are going to be any more or less successful in life than the kids of parents who struggle financially. I don’t even agree that my kids have more opportunities. Opportunities are there for all students, if they work hard to find them. </p>

<p>The real test of success is whether we can teach our children to be happy with their life choices, be fulfilled and be self-supporting. Success is not shepherding your kids through life and professional programs. Parents shouldn’t claim their kids’ successes as a reflection of their own excellent parenting any more than parents can view their kids’ failures as a failure of parenting. Sure, it can be a factor - but eventually each person is responsible for their own life choices and levels of effort.</p>

<p>Sorry to vent. Sometimes CC brings out the worst in me.</p>

<p>Going back to the OP’s thread, I recall going to a MENSA meeting years ago and meeting a lot of people who did not graduate from college. I met a mailman, a store manager, a business owner, and many other very interesting people who did not graduate from college. They had jobs, not careers - but they pursued interests outside of academic settings, and were very satisfied with their lives.</p>

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<p>^^^ good post and well said, Neonzeus.</p>

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<p>First, I’ve reported Hapsburg’s rude comment to the mods.</p>

<p>Second, OP I’m living this heartbreak right now. My son has Asperger’s, is very ADD and has a major executive function disorder for which therapy by a noted expert seems to be doing nothing. Very high SATs, top 20% grades in HS. He’s had four semesters of college, plus the summer session. Will (hopefully) have earned 42 hours by the time this semester is over, with a transcript that contains two Fs and five Ws. This week we’ve decided that college is over for him for now (this year has been at CC and working.)</p>

<p>If you would check my browser, you’d see that I’ve been searching for any type of employer who might possibly hire him full time for a job that might possibly lead to a career. TSA, airport, rental car agencies, hotels. I DON’T know what these kids are supposed to do with their lives.</p>

<p>My son currently a grocery store cashier (which seems to be the default “career path” for lots of smart Aspies) but can’t be full time (all are part time.) He goes to work whenever scheduled, does a great job and receives lots of compliments. He is being given more and more responsibility with no raise in pay (barely above minimum.) </p>

<p>Whever a student isn’t motivated in college, the advice is usually “make him work full time” but that is far from easy in this economy, when highly educated people are forced to take lower level jobs.</p>

<p>OP, I hope someone answers your question!!!</p>

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<p>OP, you brought up some interesting points and got many wise and thoughtful responses. Sorry to say I feel like you’re wallowing in some kind of passive victim role. Hated? No provision made? Cast unceremoniously? Oh, please. I also can’t help but wonder how often other people end up picking up the slack for you in your personal life (e.g. the wife you love and nurture, for instance) or your co-workers. If this is way off base, please correct me.</p>

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<p>Agree completely. To the OP, if you have regrets about the choices you’ve made, sit down with your son and tell him what you’ve told us here. Many children prefer to carve out their own paths in life rather than follow in their parents’ footsteps. Perhaps your son will be one of them.</p>

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<p>So even if you don’t feel sympathy toward the OP, please answer the question anyway. If a smart person just can’t get through college for any reason, what are they supposed to do with their lives?</p>

<p>In my son’s case, I’ve read a lot and know why he is the way he is. (It is neurological and has nothing to do with parental work ethic.) I understand why, but I can’t *fix *him. Medication, check. Therapy, check. Workbooks, check. </p>

<p>I don’t think the OP meant to slam people in service sector jobs. It’s just that it can be a workplace where the workers are exploited. Great responsiblity with little pay. No one full time so no benefits paid. Sure, it’s awesome for the store to have a cashier with a genius level IQ, of course he receives compliments on his work. We’ve been to the state department that is supposed to help folks with disabilities find jobs. The advice: you’re too smart, get through undergrad then get a masters in a subject of interest. Thanks for that.</p>

<p>I hope I’m not appearing hostile. It’s just that it’s a burning question for me right now. How does a smart person use his smarts in the workplace (and receive some kind of living wage) without a college degree? (BTW, trades are out due to poor manual dexterity; military out due to medication.)</p>

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<p>I have no answers for someone who may be seen as a “slacker” because of neurological issues. Parade Magazine last Sunday had a cover story about parents of autistic children and their trials as their kids age out of programs as they become adults. They ask the same question that MP does: “What do these kids do?!”</p>

<p>When I read on this thread that the OP describes himself and as “smart but lazy”, I couldn’t help but think of a book another CC poster suggest on a previous thread that I read: Mindset by Carol Dweck. Her contention is that we’ve done our kids disservice by emphasizing that they are “smart” and not emphasizing enough the importance of effort and progress. From the Amazon description:</p>

<p>“Dweck proposes that everyone has either a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. A fixed mindset is one in which you view your talents and abilities as… well, fixed. In other words, you are who you are, your intelligence and talents are fixed, and your fate is to go through life avoiding challenge and failure. A growth mindset, on the other hand, is one in which you see yourself as fluid, a work in progress. Your fate is one of growth and opportunity.”</p>

<p>Good news–according to Dr. Dweck, mindsets can be changed (I haven’t gotten to that part of the book yet…).</p>

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<p>Missypie, while I don’t have sympathy for the OP as he presented himself (no reflection on his son), I have plenty for your son and for you. It sounds like a much different situation. It also sounds like your son, though way under-employed for his intelligence, is doing his job responsibly and without whining. Of course I can’t answer the global question - who can, in this economy? Your son is lucky to have a determined and resourceful ally like you, even though you can’t make his path easy. I wish him, and you, the best of luck.</p>

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<p>So S3 is really smart (gifted program in school) and not motivated, did not like school. Tested with processing issues. Failed out of college after 2 years. Tried many different jobs and employers mostly as a waiter. Last year he landed a waiter job with a local chain that adores his smarts and people smarts. He hit the top numbers quickly and they gave him more to do which he learned quickly. Now they want to move him up and they have said they don’t care about the college degree. At some point he may decide he needs that degree to go on, but he is moving up to management where he is, they value what he brings to the company as he is. Is this the path I would have chosen for him? No. It took him several years to get there. But he is happy, self supporting and valued. It is not impossible. But finding something they like is important. This does not address the harder issue of more severe disabilities though.</p>

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<p>My very smart son dropped out of a very good university as a senior several years ago, as I’ve discussed here before. Our family is a weird mixture of super-involved achievement coupled with a large dollop of, why am I doing this? I don’t think lazy is the right word, even for S, who has “achieved” the least, so much as a questioning of how things work. That is not meant as an excuse, but as an explanation. </p>

<p>S did great in HS, because he was smart enough and was nagged enough, to get done what he had to. Teachers adored him–he was, is, a thinker, and he added a lot to class. He went to an Ivy, continued that way for two years, and then looked around and stopped liking what he was doing. He’d had idealistic ideas about education, and when things as he progressed got more profession-oriented, he disengaged. Again, I’m not saying this is a good idea. I’m just describing. Things see-sawed, but eventually he left school, still with a very respectable GPA but not what it was.</p>

<p>I’d like to think he knows what he’s doing, but it is worrisome. He works at a job that works for him–canvassing/advocacy for an environmental non-profit. I’d hate that job, but he’s good at talking, loves meeting people, and is passionate about the issues. It turns out that this kind of job attracts a lot of this demographic–many are smart, but didn’t finish college. OTOH, many others are college-educated, but not interested in advancement in the usual professional sense. It pays a living wage, if you can live cheaply.</p>

<p>And the last is my other point–“slackers” need to be able to live beneath their means. If you don’t need to spend much, you don’t need to earn as much. This is the mantra of my family (for personal/professional reasons, both my H and I have slashed our incomes, but live securely because of severe frugality). Both my kids are good at living on very little, so they require very little. that’s one message worth teaching your son.</p>

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<p>Money is another huge minefield for those with executive function issues. With EF issues comes poor impulse control, which leads to impulse purchased, which leads to a higher rate of bankruptcy in adulthood. My son doesn’t ask for or need anything in the way of clothes, shoes, etc. But when he has money in his pocket, he spends it - food, books, etc. So while I know that my son would be content with little in the way of housing, etc. the poor impulse control might doom him anyway.</p>

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<p>As others have mentioned, you sound like a smart person with ADD, and probably your son has also inherited it. I would start with trying to determine if that is indeed the challenge for your son and seek to treat it and deal with that aspect first. </p>

<p>It isn’t a matter of ‘just be different’ or ‘get motivated’ as some seem to suggest. Oy.</p>

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<p>MP–of course, for specific issues, money can be difficult to handle. I’m talking about your basic, non-LD under-educated sort, who needs to figure out how to get buy without a degree.</p>

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<p>This question made me think of examples among young people with families that I know of men who haven’t graduated from college and what they do to support families–just to give some real life examples This may not be applicable to MP’s son who has neurological issues, but we have to remember that most people don’t have a college degree and they go on to support families.</p>

<p>One young man went from selling carpet and appliances in Sears to owning his own flooring company. Another is a salesman who sells flooring to companies that sell flooring. One kid loves fishing and has a job as a salesman for a company that supplies fishing supplies to big stores like Walmart. I’ve seen real estate agents, insurance agents, dental hygienists, nursing assistants, construction workers, plumbers, electricians, postal employees, bank employees and car salesmen. </p>

<p>One kid I know went into the USAF and learned to be a plane mechanic. He has a civilian job doing that now. His wife, who also didn’t finish college, is a TSA employee.</p>

<p>In a lot of these cases, both spouses work to support the family lifestyle.</p>

<p>So there are many avenues to financial security for non-college graduates. Unfortunately, avenues can be severely limited for those who don’t have a work ethic…whether they have a degree or not.</p>

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<p>garland, perhaps some hands on type projects are in order.</p>

<p>“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”</p>

<p><em>Doing</em> can be humbling. It can also be exactly the challenge a person needs to remember, oh yes, it really does take one step at a time. The brain can get there in a split second, but the body can not.</p>

<p>Train the body, train the mind.</p>

<p>Just an idea…</p>

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<p>One more comment. If smart kids are not motivated in school, it could be that they are simply bored. My granddaughter complains all the time about some subjects (math is one of them), that are boring, too easy. Some kids have a sense of doing well no matter what, even if it is too boring or way too difficult for them. This is my D. and granddaughter. However, with boys it is not the case, at least it was not with my S. Boys will not do boring stuff, they like to be either very interested or not bored at least. The fact is, unfortunately, that k-12 in the USA does not provide enough challenge, especially in grades 1-8. If you compare second grader from other country who never even knew how to read before he went to first grade at age 7 w/o kindergarden to second grader in the USA, there is a great gap in academic level. They simply do not want to teach kids much in 1 - 8, then high school material is all cramped and skipped over. There is no way physics could be taught in one year, impossible. No wonder, they cannot perform in science classes in college, taking remedial courses, paying for private tutors. All kids should have equal opportunity to be challenged in k-12 and be prepared for college. It does not matter if they decided not to pursue college after all. They all deserve to be educated. I have met so many who started in engineering and then switched. It shoudl not be like that. But this k-12 situation explains why many kids (including my own S.) are bored and stop caring about school altogether. BTW, S. was on Dean’s list at college for many semesters and was learning by himself outside of college courses when he felt that classes were lacking in some area. I have never seen him doing his homework while in HS.</p>

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<p>Those of you who know me from other threads know this, but if there are others with “lazy” or lethargic kids, make sure they have blood work done during their next physical. (And lots of college kids don’t have regular physicals.) I forced Son to have a physical and blood work early this year and it turns out that he is extremely anemic. He is being treated and we are trying to find the cause. Just sayin’ that “lazy” may have a medical cause, so you might want to try the MD before the psychologist.</p>

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<p>I, too, see much of myself in the original post. I was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive type, with impulsiveness) and a processing speed issue this month, as a college senior. I work hard, but not always on what other people think I’m supposed to be working on. My transcript has lots of As and lots of Cs. I don’t consider myself lazy so much as inconsistent. And it’s not for lack of trying. Much of my college experience has felt like running head-first into a brick wall, repeatedly.</p>

<p>But the thing is, I don’t expect the world to make accommodations for me. I’ve started a low dose of stimulants, which feels like somebody dialed down the static in my head so I can finally think clearly, and I’m in therapy and academic coaching to help with the behavioral part. I’ll never be a worker bee (so to speak) in the way that some of my classmates are, but I hope I’ll be on time to work, finishing projects by deadline, and largely on top of my correspondence. I am gambling that my positives (creativity, insight, resourcefulness, analytical skills, persuasion, general verbal acumen, sheer tenacity…) will outweigh whatever organizational shortcomings are left, and so far my internship experience seems to bear that out.</p>

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<p>I don’t think think there is necessarily anything “wrong” with the OP or his son (i.e., ADD). The world is full of people who don’t like to work hard. A few of them are very smart, like the OP. This is not a crime. The OP probably feels a little guilty occasionally about the fact that he didn’t bust his hump to “live up to his potential” to become a brain surgeon or a nuclear physicist. So what. It sounds like he is a good person who cares about others and is pleasant to be around. The challenge for him is simply to make sure he pulls his own weight. That is, does he have a job that pays enough for him not to have to sponge off others. If so, I say he has nothing to apologize for.</p>

<p>The OP should help his son find a job that will support him. If the son is a good, loving person, the OP should be proud.</p>