<p>oldfort, you do realize that the costs for (employer paid) health insurance are pooled, ie, the costs of caring for those in the pool who are unhealthy are borne in part by those who are healthy. So if anyone has unhealthy habits, they will use health care services more than those who take care of themselves (usually) and all of us have to pay. So someone who is a “slacker” when in comes to health habits is a drain on society, similar to your insinuation that Slackerdad is taking from the rest of us when his kids access Medicaid. It’s sort of a “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” type of remark. Or maybe you don’t believe that fast food is making Americans fat, sick and weak. And costing all of us enormous sums of money.</p>
<p>I’m with those who are for universal health care, single payer. You know, like they have in France or Germany or Norway or…</p>
<p>from Poetgirl:
well, I guess you just have to be grateful you were born in a relatively wealthy nation and that people are willing to eventually provide you with health insurance and provide your son with money for an education, should he muster the motivation to want one.</p>
<p>Yep. That’s what “relatively wealthy” nations do: they provide their citizens with very low cost health care AND college educations. The Norwegians and the Germans and the French (and many others) are very happy about that. But in America, we complain and go to war with each other over this issues. What a shameful waste of our efforts. </p>
<p>okay, no more slackermom for me…time get off cc and cook dinner!</p>
<p>I give up ; how do you support your family ? I tried to wade through all the comments … what job does Senior Smart-But- Lazy do? I have observed many success stories produce SBL kids .</p>
<p>Off topic, but Germany does not have single payer health care. You are required to buy insurance there. There is a “public option” and private/employer based insurance.</p>
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<p>Access to university is quite restricted in such countries. That’s why they can pay for it; it’s precisely not for everybody.</p>
<p>“So, suppose the OP takes Ritalin, and suddenly discovers, as many adults exactly like him discover, that the blocks keeping him from getting things done disappear. Are we then to conclude that his manifold character flaws, the ones described in loving detail by so many posters, have disappeared?”</p>
<p>Why, yes. And? If, indeed medication solves the problem, then yay – and how is that any different from a depressed person taking antidepressants and working towards recovery?</p>
<p>I still don’t see how you are concluding this guy has neurological issues. He just describes himself as lazy.</p>
<p>Actually no. Most of costs for health insurance are paid by individuals now, not by employers. Yes, I do understand insurance are pooled because I used to be an actuary, and when we calculated premiums, we kind of expected people to contribute toward the premium. Medicaid is a safety net, not to be used (or instead of) as a long term health insurance, otherwise it would be bankrupted, and truly needy people wouldn’t be able to use it.</p>
<p>Since you asked, sopranomom, my weight is the same as when I was in college, I rarely eat processed food, I don’t smoke, I often give up socializing so I could get enough sleep. I give stress, but don’t get stress. I take care of myself for the sake of my children, so I could have a better chance of being healthy in order to support them. I have been very lucky that I haven’t had many major health problem, but not everyone has been so lucky, even if they were very health conscious.</p>
<p>I was described as smart but lazy my whole life. I thought that is was a character flaw and there was something wrong with me. Over the years, it caused self esteem issues, motivation issues and marital discord. It wasn’t until my son was diagnosed with ADHD that I realized that I may have a disorder. I was diagnosed soon after he was. I have used medication on and off for 18 years. The medication absolutely helps with many of my issues, but I do not like being medicated, so I choose not to take meds. So, does that mean I really do have a character flaw? Or am I now just another smart but lazy person, because I choose not to be medicated? My son also chooses not to be medicated, but has found his way without it. He knows that it is there if he needs it, but he has found, as have I, ways of coping without medication. While I know that I am not as efficient, productive or accomplished as I would be on medication, I am ok with that. I am comfortable in my own smart but lazy skin.</p>
<p>Are you self-supporting / self-sufficient?<br>
Is it working for you? Then, great.
It’s not working for the OP - which is why he posted.</p>
<p>What’s that old saying - Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Well, if being “smart but lazy” isn’t working for you (generic you), then, well, it’s not very smart, then, is it?</p>
<p>I assume based on the tone in your post that your are assuming that I think there is a “problem” with universal single payor health care, or financial aid. For the record, I do not. </p>
<p>As for a person who may have add or depression but refuses to take medication in order to “solve” what he sees to be a problem he faces? A problem he does not want his son to face? I say, you have to model the behavior you want your kids to have and not merely talk about it. Kids are the masters of understanding, from a very young age: It’s what you do that tells me who you are. Not what you say. So, take responsibility for yourself, is my feeling.</p>
<p>As for Missypie’s or CF’s sons? I don’t even put them in the same category. Both of them are young men who are trying their hardest every day. Not the same thing.</p>
<p>oldfort-an actuary?damn! that is some serious stress.</p>
<p>To the others that talk about being an adult with ADD–almost all the math teachers I work with feel they also have ADD (some ADHD), me included. We all wonder how can anyone possibly sit and think about just one thing when there are so many other great things to think about? It affects my work. My husband likens us to smart people that are too stupid to come out of the rain–he has a point. I could never be done by the time the bell rings–yet I know other successful teachers, that are good at their job, that come close. I believe they are just more efficient than me.Us ADD folks, sit around and talk about all the other cool stuff we thought about that day only to return to stacks of papers and deadlines.</p>
<p>I am not trying to make fun here–I find it very difficult to go from start to finish, without sidelining, anything. But, I always finish and I always do a good job (even though there are many times I absolutely don’t want to). I find myself working weekends more often than I would like (yet is is by no means a job requirement) and haha, I would never get a bonus for putting in “extra” time. I have come to accept that I can get really great results, just not in the most efficient manner–I look at that as MY PROBLEM. And quite frankly, I enjoy the process, it works for me.</p>
<p>When I get ADD students in class we discuss what we will do to help them focus, we don’t spend our time feeling sorry for them. By high school, they need to get a handle on their condition and figure out how to deal with it. The real world will not wait for them.</p>
<p>I liked the post that talked about how everything is a continuum. I think if we look hard enough(OK we don’t have to look too hard), there are no perfect people. We all have some trait that isn’t desired. The true question then becomes, what are you going to do about it?</p>
<p>The OP also described himself as procrastinating, disorganized, not punctual, often did not hand in homework…the list goes on… </p>
<p>It is equally as difficult for me and others who have seen, lived with, or have neurological “issues” ourselves to “see” how posters who admit they are not professionals (or have little knowledge on the subject, and treat ADD as imaginary, or a disease that can be easily fixed or cured, or an annoying bad habit that only requires a little effort to change) can so adamantly dismiss even the POSSIBILITY that there could be a neurological basis for the behaviors described by the OP.</p>
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<p>Truly brilliant observation. Why am I not surprised?! </p>
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<p>Oh? You know these young men personally? You should meet my Aspie S…;)</p>
<p>No. But, I have heard Missypie and CF descirbe their sons’ struggles, and have listened with interest and empathy, as the mother of a gifted dyslexic, for a couple of years now. But, you could be right. I could be mistaking CF’s and Missypie’s hard work for their sons’. </p>
<p>I actually, originally suggested a neurological and hormonal work up, but then he described his endless energy and engagement with the things he WANTS to do. And, there you have it. ;)</p>
<p>But, he has said he doesn’t want to take ADD medicine. I say if you refuse to solve your problem, it’s not somebody else’s problem to solve.</p>
<p>yup, my S exactly. But only things he is very passionate about. When he was really little, we called it “perseverating.” Today, I like to refer to it as “persevering.” Perhaps wishful thinking on my part since his college GPA sure doesn’t reflect it. I sometimes fear that I have merely been deluding myself, that we have just postponed the inevitable and he too will eventually end up unemployed/underemployed and back in his basement bedroom…</p>
<p>Well, I can only imagine your feelings on this, honestly. I have certainly had moments of fear for my daughter, particularly when she still could not read at 12, and we didn’t understand, yet, how unimportant this would turn out to be in the end.</p>
<p>My only relative on the spectrum is a classical language professor, these days, but it took years for him to get to grad school because he was opposed to the GRE. When I say opposed, it’s not really quite describing what he was willing to do not to take the test. He is married now, though, to a really great woman, and he finally finished his PhD. As I said to the OP in my original post, it is never to late to finish college.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son. It’s a difficult path.</p>
<p>You sound a lot like a relative of mine. Brilliant but at age 50 he has never had anything that would be considered a career. Odd jobs here and there. Back and forth with school and education. His wife has worked hard to provide an income to support their family. They aren’t rich and she works hard in a field she loves. She provides 90% of the income and the health insurance. He does most of the cooking but not much cleaning. He is the impulsive shopper. He is a nice man who is has a wealth of knowledge. I don’t know if he has ADD or depression or some form of anxiety that prevents him from going out into the world and really working. I will tell you that after 25 yrs of being together his wife is tired and at times regrets the mate choice she has made. She tries to remind herself at the end of each day of his wonderful qualities but at times she is just way too tired.
My sister was engaged to someone like you. He was fun. He loved to surf, travel and was a great sport. My sister broke the engagement when she realized that she might very well spend the rest of her life having to be the Grownup in the relationship.
My SIL used to run a group for engineers with ADD and executive function disorder. They were all male and good at their work but their home lives were falling apart.
My own S has ADD and executive function disorder. He is graduating college. I don’t know if he is going to be able to get a job and keep it. I am expecting there to be some falls. He has a great girlfriend who wakes him up in the morning, she cooks for him, makes sure he doesn’t miss deadlines. I don’t wish that on someone for a lifetime.
So please think about your wife. Find a way to get tested, get on some meds if necessary. I know our community college will test students. Also some university psychology departments might be a place to get low cost testing done.</p>
<p>Thank you for your kind words. I am not a counselor or shrink, but I do have a good deal of experience working on a listening/crisis hotline, as well as other forms of listening, and I work on it regularly.</p>
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<p>Yes, that fits what you have said and I tried to summarize above: You seem to have a track record of pride and energy in activities in which you can have a central role in the action. I think, though, that the best activities for you involve interaction with others–when interaction is central, not peripheral, to what is going on. I suspect that some of your activities peter out because you are on your own. This is why I am skeptical of the idea of a blog for you. I think you enjoy and are stimulated when there is the scraping of rough edges with others–in an activity you enjoy and where you can control the time involved. If someone else is specifying and demanding a lot of your time, then you start to no longer be so central to the action.</p>
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<p>Thank you for explaining this in such thorough and honest detail. </p>
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<p>You have considered graduate school? In what field(s)?</p>
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<p>I don’t know. If you found your calling, you would suddenly begin to get good grades in pursuit of that calling and that could be pointed out in your graduate school applications. I wouldn’t give up on graduate school just yet. </p>
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<p>Well, no, as a listener I don’t announce meanings, I try to help people discover and/or create their own. Since you seem to appreciate my questions, though, perhaps a good listener could be quite useful to you. What about my previous question to you about counseling? would you consider it, when you had some money or insurance? I think that you could benefit from a counselor, particularly one who can offer a humanistic perspective. For example, Carl Rogers:</p>
<p>(actually part 1, I believe, of Carl Rogers with Gloria. in what is called Part I on youtube, Rogers explains his approach to counseling) </p>
<p>(the three other videos of this session are also on Youtube)</p>
<p>What do you think of Carl Rogers?</p>
<p>I even wonder if you would entertain the idea of counseling as a career for you. Here is some of what I see in that regard: you enjoy one-on-one where you can be a central part of the action; the job has strategic, thinking aspects to it, which can engage you mind; you seem attracted to jobs/activities that involve caring about and for people; you seem willing to listen and respond. </p>
<p>Perhaps there is a listening service in your area that you could volunteer for (they would train you, probably for free) and you could try listening out for yourself? </p>
<p>What are a few things about you and about your lifestyle that you do not wish upon your son? I think you may have addressed this above, but I am sorry that I can’t locate it now and I have to go pick up my daughter.</p>
<p>I think you, hmm, how shall I say this, don’t have an understanding of what it’s like to have Aspergers or have an Aspie in the family. My son is trying his hardest to try his hardest-- but I can’t describe him as someone who is trying his hardest every day. From my many discussions with Missypie, I’m quite sure she would not describe Pieson as trying his hardest every day.</p>
<p>Yes, CF, there is no question that it is not possible to understand. I have clearly misunderstood what you guys have been saying. Whether or not this gentleman has aspergers? I cannot say. Not everyone who is unmotivated to take action in life is on the spectrum or depressed or has ADD. But ADad seems to have made a good connection, and so I will get out of the way.</p>
<p>NOTE:As I was responding to Cardinal’s post, I hit an epiphany of sorts. It was such a huge moment, I wasn’t sure what to do with the overall formatting of this post, since there were so many responses above it and it shouldn’t just be buried way down there. OTOH, some of the other responses would seem odd coming after that one, and I’m too lazy to go back and change them all (LOL). So skip down to the last place in this post where I quote someone else’s post (Cardinal’s in this case) if you are curious.</p>
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<p>Not even psychological? That’s an “-ogical” after all. Just sayin’.</p>
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<p>Thanks, sewhappy! I really appreciate that (and you certainly didn’t offend me, if that’s what you meant! LOL). My son however does not so far seem to have my…what should I call it…toughness, I guess? (It may not have been apparent in my first post, but I think it is probably clear by now that I don’t shrink from a fight.) So I’m concerned that with the general antipathy the world has toward “slackers” (oh, would that there were many more like you out there–and of course, like the several other people here who have said kind things). I worry that he’ll be much more likely to internalise the negativity into feelings of low self worth. It also doesn’t help that he’s very short (projected to be about 5’2" as an adult), something he gets from his mom and which I haven’t had to deal with (I’m 5’10"). I’m a little afraid that in a society which appears to get more materialistic all the time, a 5’2" slacker may not have the marriage prospects I managed to come up with (and I also consider myself pretty fortunate).</p>
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<p>Indeed. But getting back to the post about how these things vary depending on the culture one finds themselves situated in, I think I would have a much easier time in Europe, where people work far fewer hours, value leisure time over work, there is a much better family/life/work balance, and there is just not a culture of expecting people to burn the midnight oil to show how dedicated they are to the company. I had a French professor, a young guy from France, who told me I was the only American he ever knew who seemed to him to really be a Frenchman at heart, so there ya go. :)</p>
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<p>Ha! Good one, sopranomom. Boy, there are a lot of very quick-witted people around here: I like it! When this thread dies down, I will have to check out the others. :)</p>
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<p>That is so nice of you to say! You’re right, I am having a good time, and I’m enjoying the company. :)</p>
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<p>Aye, there’s the rub. And actually, one big problem I always found with blogging is that my writing really feels like it only comes alive when it comes out of a back-and-forth, give-and-take situation with other intelligent people who are quick on their feet (this site is absolutely perfect, it seems so far). Just staring at a blank page, an empty screen, I have trouble coming up with much to say.</p>
<p>I salute you btw for admitting you’d have trouble putting up with a husband like me, even though in the abstract you don’t seem to have a problem with me. I’m not offended by that at all, but it is part of what I mentioned above in terms of what I worry about for my son.</p>
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<p>That’s only partially right. I am partially unhappy with the outcome; however, I feel pretty sure I’d have been unable to continuously tolerate doing what I would have had to do to become a “success”. In fact, I just don’t think it could have happened, except perhaps with some o’ those magic ADD drugs I’m starting to wonder about. I know that my tendency to procrastinate the things I don’t want to do is so powerful, it’s really like an addiction (and thank you for helping me see that I have not focussed enough attention on my pathological tendency toward procrastination, and the related fact that I’m terrible about getting places on time). I will be in a situation where I know that I have to get started on something (say, schoolwork) RIGHT NOW or I’m not going to have enough time to finish. But some seductive little devil inside me convinces me that “it’s okay, just do __________ (insert more enjoyable activity in the blank) a little longer and then you can do it.” I imagine it’s like the alcoholic who tells himself “just one (more) beer, I’ve got it under control”, or the obese person on a diet who lets themselves have just one little piece of cake, or says “I’m just not ready to start that diet today, but tomorrow for sure”.</p>
<p>So really, I don’t think it’s all that much of a choice at all. I could manage to put a lot of psychological effort on the line and sort of emulate a more efficacious person for a little while (and I have done that in spurts, including–when I was single–going on a tear and completely cleaning up my normally ultra-messy apartment, though I could never seem to maintain it); but I just know myself too well to imagine being able to sustain it long enough to have gotten good grades throughout high school and college. I’m even more in awe of people like my parents or my wife, who do the self-starting work required in grad school.</p>
<p>And honestly, as I said above, even if I had managed to implement some kind of organisational system all the way through school, once I got into a professional type job, I’d be looking for my boss to be like my teachers and professors and say, essentially, “here’s the syllabus, these are the exact requirements you need to fulfill to be considered a valuable member of the team; these will be the exact hours you will be expected to work, and the amount of output you will be expected to produce.” Because, as I noted above, to imagine that I would take initiative to seek out extra work, stay late at the office or take work home when there would be no obvious, immediate, clear cut penalty for doing so, and when there are plenty of “fun” leisure time activities calling out to me…well, that is just like imagining being a different person altogether.</p>
<p>However, as I say, I don’t see why people like my son and I couldn’t be valuable as some kind of consultant who gets paid by the hour, is not expected to work off the clock, and works a relatively light schedule. I don’t mean that we should be given a job like this because we deserve it or because the world should take pity on us, but simply because I think we would provide a lot of value for relatively little money compared to what other white collar professionals make. And they wouldn’t have to worry about my playing office politics and wasting valuable time and energy undermining other people to try to claw my way to the top, because I don’t care about any of that.</p>
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<p>Yes, with the significant distinction that, again, I don’t know how much it was really a choice so much as a lack of capability.</p>
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<p>Actually, some people are.</p>
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<p>Apparently you missed the post where I noted that I’d be satisfied with a relatively low paying job ($20K a year) if it were something I didn’t hate and that had flexible hours; and that as I keep saying, I think I could provide a lot of value for the buck (with the corollary being that the intellectual abilities of people like me are as things stand now being at least partially wasted).</p>
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<p>Wow, Cardinal–I liked your posts before, but this is just so spot on. Thank you! That was what I found so bizarre about one accusation that I was coming here looking for tons of praise and sympathy. Actually, I got much more of that than I expected, because you’re right: starting with my Type A mom and continuing throughout life I’ve taken a great deal of derision for “wasting my potential”. And it has only accelerated since I hit my thirties and had kids. But all that punishment, while it did spur me to want to change, wasn’t enough to actually make me change.</p>
<p>I’m still coming to terms with the increasing likelihood that this may well be something screwed up in my brain that can actually be treated so simply; if that does in fact turn out to be the case I will be beyond ecstatic and eternally grateful to you and others here.</p>
<p>…Oh. My. God.</p>
<p>I am absolutely stunned right now. Words are inadequate.</p>
<p>Okay, so why didn’t anyone ever tell me this before?!? For that matter, I’m pretty well read: why haven’t I ever come across it before on my own? How common is this? How new a diagnosis is this?</p>
<p>So many questions.</p>
<p>Still trying to absorb the magnitude of this development. Wow. (Did I mention, “wow”? Told you words were inadequate.)</p>
<p>I suppose the only possible caveat I can think of (I have an almost obsessive tendency to always sort of mentally turn things round and round and upside down and look for a devil’s advocate position, but this is a tendency I really value) might be that this could be argued to be a case of taking a personality profile (like Myers-Briggs* personality types) and pathologising it. Kind of along the lines of how some people with autism claim that it is a personality difference rather than a disorder or disability. I won’t be able to say for sure how I feel about that until I try the Ritalin, I think; but it sure is exciting in any event to discover this uncanny description of me and my son “in print”.</p>
<p>*Speaking of which, is there any connection between ADD-inattentive and the [url="<a href="http://typelogic.com/entp.html"]ENTP[/url">http://typelogic.com/entp.html"]ENTP[/url</a>] type? Because that was the only other time I ever read a description of personality traits and marvelled at how closely it fit (this new one takes the cake though).</p>