I am hoping to study math/physics at a top-tier university, e.g:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
MIT
Stanford
Caltech
UC Berkeley
Carnegie Mellon
UPenn
UChicago
NYU
Columbia
Harvey Mudd
Cornell
My counselour assures me that I am at the level academically as students who get accepted to these institutions (in terms of grades, standardized test scores, experience/skill in my major, national awards, and other credentials), so I guess these are “match” schools. I don’t know much about this safety/match/reach thing, but based on what I know I wouldn’t say I have any “reach” schools because my counselour tells me that for each school on that list I have a decent chance of being admitted.
So I am wondering what are some common “safety” schools for top-performing math/physics majors who are at the level academically of HYPSM, etc.
“my counselour tells me that for each school on that list I have a decent chance of being admitted”
Decent?? Well, If you consider that you have a 90-95% chance of being REJECTED by most of those schools on that list "decent " then ok…
Any college that accepts fewer than10 % of unhooked [ i.e. not any of the following- legacy, faculty kid, recruited athlete, DA, ] applicants is a REACH regardless of what your counselor thinks.
A safety school is a school that you CAN afford to go to, AND where you have guaranteed admission , OR where your stats put you ABOVE 75% of accepted students AND where over 40% of applicants are accepted.
Cost constraints? State of residency? Application qualifications?
Most of the schools you list are admission reaches for everyone, except probably Berkeley and NYU (assuming you apply for the divisions where math and physics are). But NYU financial aid is not very good; Berkeley is only good for financial aid if you are a California resident or earn a Regents’ scholarship.
You just said on your other thread that you were joking about these not being reaches… but clearly you believe they aren’t. They are NOT matches because of the low acceptance rates. They get a ton of applicants that likely look a lot like you, and reject a lot of them. The one exception on your list is probably NYU, but bring your checkbook, as FA is lousy there.
Why don’t you give us some stats, and the info requested above on residency and what your parents can pay.
Also, just looked at your old thread for stats. I assume because you have a 2340 SAT, you think you are a shoo in for these schools. My kid had a 2380, but was pretty sure she didn’t have some of the other qualities that would be required for admission to more than half of the schools on your list. She did get into U of Chicago and Mudd, but her fit with those environments was very strong (and her essays and recommendations reflected it). You REALLY need to find some schools a notch down from these that you would be willing to attend. If the arrogance in your posts comes across in your apps (or in your recommendations, which it definitely could!), you will be toast.
Schools with decent math/physics below the top rung might be St. Olaf (math), Lawrence (physics), Reed (but you will want to visit, it isn’t for everyone) – maybe Purdue? Carleton could be a match. Your state flagship might be a reasonable safety, especially if you have financial constraints.
There was a young man in D2’s class who was so sure he was going to get into a list of schools like yours… he ignored all advice to generate a more balanced list. He was finally convinced to apply to an LAC ranked in the 50s as his safety – and he was shut out everyplace but there. So that is where he attends. With a dose of much needed humility…
If Physics, UCSB has 5 Nobel Prize winners in Physics. Apply to CCS program there, I’m sure it’s top notch. It sounds like you are more name conscious.
A safety school is one that has a high chance to admit you, is affordable to you, and you are willing to go. I don’t see how would there be a common one. There are schools that can be accepted easily and are affordable like CC, but I don’t think everyone will be willing to go there. If there is one, the admission rate will be lower as so many students will apply. More typical, it may be an in state flagship, but it would not be a common one from different states.
Do you seriously intend to apply to ALL of the schools you listed or are you just going to pick some of those? What state do you live in? That would help us suggest safety schools.
You definitely have a chance at these schools if your stats are as impressive as you make them sound, but not a very good chance. That’s nothing against you- it’s just a fact. Harvard has a 5% admissions rate and they reject many many people with similar or better stats than you. So just keep that in mind. I’m not trying to shut you down because you are probably a very strong applicant, but almost none of the schools you listed are a match. Consider most of them reaches. It’s great to be confident, but you need to be more realistic. I’m VERY surprised that any counselor would be telling you that any of the HYP schools are a match:/
Try to go into this whole process with a more realistic mindset-- there will be some rejections, but I’m sure you’ll find some great schools too!
In regard to finding safeties, you haven’t really given us anything to go off of (e.g. State of residence, specific stats) other than that you’re interested in math and science. So I’m not really sure what to say:)
OP, your counselor “assures” (your words) that you are at the level academically of students who get admitted to the schools on your list. Good for you, because you need to have the academic ability to put your name in the hat. However, it certainly doesn’t mean that these aren’t reach schools for you or anybody else. Don’t be arrogant to think that you will be admitted to any of these, or even one. Heed the advice of @menloparkmom and @intparent above. Get a balanced list together for sure, so you won’t be disappointed on decision day.
“So I am wondering what are some common “safety” schools for top-performing math/physics majors who are at the level academically of HYPSM, etc.”
To answer OP’s question, common safety schools for students like you are your state flagship or other in-state university, or schools with guaranteed admission and/or scholarships for top students, such as University of Alabama and others. You may also want to include schools that offer large competitive scholarships for high stats students and good programs in your major. Maybe a good LAC or a technical university like RPI, RIT, WPI, IIT. Lots of top students can be found at all of these types of schools.
At your level the concept of match and reach is blurred. You’re a match for these top schools, but your chances of admission are still quite small just due to the volume of competition. You’re right to be looking for safety schools.
I agree with the above post that you are not ‘assured’ entry to any of your list. My first S was accepted at Columbia but waitlisted at MIT, Stanford, and Caltech (which equates to rejected) and rejected by Cornell, Princeton, U of Michigan, Carnegie Mellon, and John Hopkins. He was accepted (with big $) from safeties of Stony Brook, Northeastern, Case Western and RPI. With 2350/800/800 Sat’s, a Siemens Semi and Regional finalist, essays that still give me the chills, College internship with Professor recommendation (who thinks he is just below God) and an internship at one of the largest computer companies in the country, everyone thought he would get accepted everywhere.
College acceptances just don’t work the way they should so apply early and often with more match schools and less super reaches. Start with backups that require no extra essays like your state school and the four mentioned above. (Stony Brook is ranked high for best value and Case Western has no application fee). Then you need to show interest in your matches by attending information sessions from schools like NYU, John Hopkins and Carnegie Mellon (visit if possible). Pick your favorite reach for early decision and then add in early action schools like U of Michigan, Caltech and MIT( you don’t need to show interest accept in your essays). Don’t get upset if you don’t get in early, just start writing supplemental essays for as many match and reach schools as you can afford to.
Second S is applying this year and I am looking for more match schools. It is a bit of a quandary because there are very few science & high tech schools in the middle of the road - either they have big research $ or they don’t. We might look to some LAC that have great math & physics and save the high research school for his masters. I could be grasping at straws but it was a long way from Columbia to RPI!
1.Let me once again say that “I don’t know much about this safety/match/reach thing” do my definitions of “match” and “reach” may be wrong. I called the schools on my list “matches” because I am at the level academically of the students who get in there. I do recognize that the admission rates are low, although if you remove the large number of unqualified students who apply, my chance of getting in is presumably significantly higher than 8%, although still relatively low. “Match”, “reach” or whatever you want to call them, we’re just playing with words here. As parentof2014grad said “At your level the concept of match and reach is blurred. You’re a match for these top schools, but your chances of admission are still quite small just due to the volume of competition.”
Yes, I am applying to ALL of those schools + 4 others not listed on the list. I will apply to a safety school but I'm still not convinced that I have to apply to a "safety" school with a list like this, because the probability of me getting into none of those schools is low. @TiggyB6:that's not arrogance, it's just logic: assuming I have an 8% of being admitted for each school of the 14 I am applying to, the probability that I get into none is 31%. Given that my credentials are quite strong, let's say I have more like a 15% chance of admission for each of the 14 schools - that makes the probability of getting into none 10%.
Why are some people putting words in my mouth - I never said I am guaranteed to get into of these schools. I think I am being entirely realistic when I say I will get into at least 2 or 3 of the schools on that list. Just compute the probabilities.
4.@intparent: I don’t think my 2340 SAT guarantees me anything. That is not why I say I am at the right level academically for the schools on my list. I have a few tricks up my sleeve… Again do not throw around worlds like “arrogant” just because I say I am at the level academically of HYPSM. And I don’t think I have shown arrogance in any other posts.
As far as constraints for what safety schools, there are none. I don't care where it's located, what it looks like, how much it costs. Also why is what state I live in relevant?
I was wondering if UCLA or McGill would be considered safety schools for someone like myself?
OP
– I think you need to research CC treads from 2014 specifically ones that said “I didn’t get into any college I applied to!!!”
Each application is like an individual state lottery. Just because you apply to more top colleges doesn’t mean you have a greater chance of acceptance at any one college anymore than your chances of winning an individual state lottery increase because you Buy tickets to 20 OTHER state lotteries.
And no – UCLA is not the safety school for anybody even for top students in California.
The reason the state you live in is relevant is that colleges like to accept students from every state.
So if you are from North Dakota , since there are not many applicants
to Ivys from that state, you therefore have a better chance of acceptance
than if you are a top student
from New York!
And if you are not a California resident
That reduces your chances of acceptance at UCLA since most freshman slots go to California kids .
out-of-state residents pay a fortune to go to California public U’s -