What are some negatives of UMich?

<p>Taking all of the LSA blowoff (“cupcake”) courses tends to give one that impression… just sign up for graduate courses and the undergrad gpa killers like the rest of us if you really want a challenge. I understand that you aren’t willing to do this because you need to keep a high gpa for business. It’s just weird that you’d purposely take easy classes alongside your engin classes (or whatever you take) to pad your gpa and then complain about the lack of difficulty at UM.</p>

<p>“Taking all of the LSA blowoff (“cupcake”) courses tends to give one that impression… just sign up for graduate courses and the undergrad gpa killers like the rest of us if you really want a challenge. I understand that you aren’t willing to do this because you need to keep a high gpa for business. It’s just weird that you’d purposely take easy classes alongside your engin classes (or whatever you take) to pad your gpa and then complain about the lack of difficulty at UM.”</p>

<p>It’s not the classes. It’s the people. There are obviously a lot of bright people. But it also seems like no matter what classes I take, 25% of the class are filled with clueless underqualified students who shouldn’t be there in first place (a larger proportion of them are in-state). In a team of 5, you often get assigned to at least 1 or 2 kids who are stupid, who don’t care enough and are satisfied with turning in B quality homework because they think a 3.0 is more than sufficient for their pathetic career goals, or both. It’s really annoying. </p>

<p>The so-called GPA killers usually aren’t intellectually challenging either. They are usually just classes that require a lot of tedious busy work. </p>

<p>It’s not like all my classes are the cupcakes. Most engineering classes are harder than the graduate courses or LSA gpa killers that you are referring to. So I do have a perspective on the classes that are supposed to give you a “challenge”. </p>

<p>“bearcats, why are you at UMich? It seems like it is “beneath” you.”</p>

<p>You know, that is one of the reasons I always tell people to go for the prestige. I took ill advice from people who say go for “fit”, who tell me to look at the program’s strength rather than the university’s prestige. I could have enrolled at Wharton but I thought Michigan was more of a fit. I didnt realize how much people care about your pedigree until I actually worked.
I was flat out asked in an interview once “I have a lot of kids who want to work here from Harvard, Princeton and the like. I have a bunch of hungry, smart kids from Wharton and Stanford who are also fighting for this internship. Why, out of all people, should I hire a Michigan student like you?”</p>

<p>Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. It comes from someone’s distorted vision of diversity, right? That’s why I started to avoid taking classes that require group work–especially if you can’t choose the groups.</p>

<p>You shouldn’t confuse classes with the reputation as gpa killers (e.g. econ 401, orgo) with the actual gpa killers. They’re still out there, believe me. They just don’t have that reputation because the less gifted students never encounter them.</p>

<p>Anyways, can you elaborate on post #16? I was thinking about transferring due to financial necessity, but it has clear disadvantages (I lose a great position I have in a lab). If I don’t go into chem/biochem/bio research with medical applications, I’d go into theoretical physics or math-based business (depending on whether money motivates me more or not).</p>

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<p>Transfer…?</p>

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<p>No offense but the interviewer was a rude and ignorant jerk. Do not take this experience as genuinely typical of all hiring managers. Some are biased toward their regional and “brand” schools (if this was a Northeast company, this is not surprising.) Think about it: why work with people who will give you a hard time when there are better and more tolerant companies out there?</p>

<p>This is why I am happy my potential career path is not super-obsessed with prestige. They care more about what you can do (skills) for their organization. Although I am a graduate student, a Michigan degree is still quite an accomplishment. Remember, there are 400,000+ Michigan alumni in the world.</p>

<p>No, no, I’ve heard of that happening before too. Elaborate on it (or pm D: ), if anything. How did you respond?</p>

<p>Regarding the interview question quoted in post #25: I mean, as much as it appears to show your point on prestige being a huge factor, does it not equally display the point that individual talent ultimately overwhelms prestige (I assume you got the internship)?</p>

<p>"I was flat out asked in an interview once “I have a lot of kids who want to work here from Harvard, Princeton and the like. I have a bunch of hungry, smart kids from Wharton and Stanford who are also fighting for this internship. Why, out of all people, should I hire a Michigan student like you?” </p>

<p>That’s is unusual. Generally speaking, in terms of prestige and reputation, Michigan will be lumped with most other elite universities. Of course, few will compare Michigan to HYPSM, but students at schools like Brown, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern or Penn aren’t given more attention or respect than students at schools like Cal, Michigan or UVa. I am sure you have extremes either way (I had employers voice their opinion that schools like Cal and Michigan were superior to schools like Brown, Dartmouth and Duke and others who, as you seem to have experienced, will believe that those public elites are inferior to their private peerS)), but on the whole, Michigan will receive the same respect as most elite universities.</p>

<p>Like all universities, Michigan is not perfect and has its flaws. </p>

<p>1) Intro level classes in popular majors (i.e., Econ, History, Political Science, Psychology), although excellent and worldclass, tend to be very large. This said, upper level classes are smaller, very diverse in content and extremely rewarding.</p>

<p>2) As bearcats mentioned, roughly a third of Michigan students are not the most intellectually or professionally driven/capable. At many smaller private schools, that percentage would be closer to 10%. Still, 50% of Michigan students are very driven and capable, so one should have very little trouble finding a challenging and ambitious group of class mates in virtually all corners of the campus.</p>

<p>3) As some have mentioned above, certainly intro level classes like English 125 and Calculus 115 and 116 are painfully standardized and boring. That is sad (and ironic), considering that virtually all students must take them in order to graduate and considering the fact that those departments are truly awesome once one starts taking intermediate and advanced level classes.</p>

<p>4) Should cold weather and clouds bother you, the weather in the Midwest and Northeast (Michigan included) could qualify as a “negative”.</p>

<p>Those are the only negatives I can think of. I would say that dorms and dorm food are average but not bad and in most other respects, Michigan is awesome.</p>

<p>I have to agree with the observation that a lot of people here aren’t very driven. It was kind of disappointing; I was expecting a more intellectual and motivated community but it seems like a lot of people here don’t really care.</p>

<p>It’s not as bad as high school by any means, and it’s certainly not the majority of students, but people like this are still fairly common.</p>

<p>I haven’t found any trouble meeting motivated and incredibly smart people. Apparently, we’ve never met.</p>

<p>That being said, I haven’t found any trouble finding any kind of person here–for better or for worse.</p>

<p>“People like this are still fairly common”</p>

<p>I’ve no doubt that with a UG pop of 24k this is the case, and that highly motivated students would feel dragged down by same. But consider those un-driven folks a “training” for your future work in the ole Real World. You’ll encounter them everywhere you go, and may even be employed by same. Best to learn how to socialize with 'em now ; P</p>

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You just showed how watered down a Michigan degree has really become…good job.</p>

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<p>No, I didn’t. Where did you get that assumption? U-M is one of the best universities in the nation and the world. lesdiablesbleus, (since my memory is coming back and I remember you are anti-public universities), it is you with the reading comprehension problem.</p>

<p>His point was that if so many people did it, it’s not much of an accomplishment.</p>

<p>That argument doesn’t make sense; it’s not harder to get a degree from a smaller school with less alumni, it’s just smaller so less people do it. </p>

<p>Getting a B average at Harvard is, admittedly by Harvard students, not difficult. I have a friend who transferred from Michigan to Yale for smaller pre-med classes, and a friend who transferred from Penn to Michigan for a better atmosphere. Both said that grading at Michigan was much more difficult then grading at their other school.</p>

<p>Additionally, some people like bearcats would interpret that question as an attack on the prestige of their school. Really a question like that is designed to push you to illustrate what you got out of your academic experience to go above and beyond. They know Michigan has all of the resources and strength of any elite university. They also know that as a huge school the people who actively seek out those resources are the ones that benefit most. </p>

<p>Maybe bearcats couldn’t, but I know that if I, as someone who was admitted to HYPS and goes to Michigan now, were asked that question, I’d be able to knock it out of a park.</p>

<p>I agree Tyler, I am not sure I understand the connection between the size of the school and the value of the degrees its students receive.</p>

<p>Sorry. I don’t know where you made your assumption and think that you know the context in which the question was asked.
The whole interview was carried out in a demeaning manner and Michigan was, referred to as “The State School” multiple times during the interview. </p>

<p>It’s not about “knocking the question out of a park”. It’s about perception. The guy interviewed me because he was a hot-shot analyst graduated from Harvard not too long ago and he was asked by his MD to do so. He’d rather interview a kid from Harvard but he got stuck interviewing the kid from “the state school”. From the first minute i was labeled as the “state school kid”</p>

<p>When I asked him when I would hear back, he even said, “You know, it might take a while and see, I would usually rather help a kid from my alma mater or similar schools than take a chance with kids from lower caliber state schools, so don’t be disappointed if things don’t go your way.”</p>

<p>"Getting a B average at Harvard is, admittedly by Harvard students, not difficult. "</p>

<p>Assuming you are somewhat intelligent, getting a B average at Michigan is also extremely easy, especially in the LSA. Most classes are curved and you are bound to have enough clueless or unmotivated kids to fill up the B- to F range and you automatically start at a B. How much you work only determines where within A+ to B range you are at by the end of the semester.</p>

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<p>Do employers know that Michigan grading is hard?
And that 2.5 in U-M might be worth 3.5 in other schools? (just a wild guess)
If Michigan grading is harder than Harvard, that’s unfair, b/c Harvard has more/most prestige.</p>