Some kids have confessed that they started passion projects just to add on their apps and then drop it soon as they submit their applications- not very authentic. But schools keep wanting this stuff and kids do it but it’s def not a genuine kind of activity if they drop it as quick as they pick them up, but AOs can’t really tell even though they say they can it’s hard to believe.
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I agree with the sentiment, but OTOH it seems reasonable and logical though that many affluent students would want to achieve the same level of financial success their parents did, and that relatively lower income students at these schools want to achieve greater financial success than their families did.
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I have to gently push back on that statement. I am often astounded by the level of ingenuity and intellectual heft that many startups have. Perhaps many of these kids in IB & MC know their intellectual limitation and hence choose safer professions? I do not blame them per se but see this a bit differently.
Yes, that is our perhaps our regret too. We literally stopped both our kids from applying to need based schools. Frankly, my DD might have made it as she had national recognition for her main EC. My son on the other hand, probably not, even though he is the more academically capable student.
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IME there are plenty of top school grads in start-ups, and plenty of ex IB and consultants too.
There are many different kind of intellectual strengths, I certainly don’t see any grads getting IB or consulting gigs that lack intellect…if somehow a mistake is made in the hiring process, said person won’t last long in either environment.
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Most IB kids last 2-3 years as analysts and have to go back to school. I am not saying they are not intellectually capable, far from that. Maybe in my line of work, most kids I see are STEM grads with advanced degrees that start companies and such.
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I believe your experience! I’m seeing many STEM grads choosing IB and consulting…seems more than prior years/decades, but I don’t have any data beyond what I am seeing.
I’ve heard through the grapevine (from friends/relatives at competitive high schools) that colleges are starting to be even more picky about “nonprofits” started by high schoolers. My roommate from a study abroad program told me that out of her whole friend group (6 top students at one of the best 100 schools in the country), 4 of them had created ‘national’ tutoring nonprofits,with about 15-30 tutors in 5 different states. Two of them had even been featured in local news or received awards.
Three years earlier, my roommate’s older brother did something similar as his main EC and got into Penn ED. Now, nobody other than my roommate (Recruited athlete, Bowdoin) has been accepted to schools so far. Apparently none of the “nonprofit kids” at her school have been doing well because… there’s enough of them to be classified as the nonprofit kids! Previously it was something unique and impressive, but now it seems like there are so many nonprofits that a student really needs to be impactful to stand out.
As a HS student, I feel like I’ve learned and contributed much more by interning or being a youth advisor at established nonprofits. It doesn’t make sense for me, a teenage who is still practicing for my driving test, to try and do as much for the homeless as the already established local organization that is not only a 501c(3) but also has 10+ years of experience in the field.
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You are right on point! My kids had better than average admissions results at T20’s and neither “founded” a charity. They did volunteer work through our church and through their schools. As an interviewer, when community service is brought up, I am assessing commitment and impact. I am generally skeptical of claims that “I started a non-profit that raised $xxx or helped yyy people”. When that comes up, there are some pretty detailed questions I ask.
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Louder, please, for the people in back!
The point of volunteering is to help people (or animals, or causes), not to “establish something”.
When I wrote above that “elite” colleges are looking at achievements, they are looking at whether the applicant has achieved what they set out to achieve. Volunteering is about helping, so the “achievement” is measured in how much the applicant has helped. IMO, the main achievement in building an entirely redundant organization is the sheer number of hours and money wasted on something that is not only unneeded, but also sabotages the work of established organizations.
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My child goes to one of the largest public schools in US (over 6k students in NYC) and guidance counselors are good at giving generic information to students but nothing personal AT ALL. No letter would be personal. It is probably a disadvantage. I am certain private school kids in the city have a leg up in admissions for a number of reasons (I had another kid in a private school and grades were inflated, easy to get wonderful recommendations, etc.)
Our school calls it service learning. There’s an understanding that while helping others is important, most of us get more out of it than what we put in.
Our school CC also very strongly discouraged kids from writing essays about their service learning experiences.
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I also heard that some schools started to take a look at volunteering activities more closely. It’s not that they will accept anyone who founded a non-profit just because they want to see the "real’ passion, not just creating something high profile.
I believe that the volunteering activities should be viewed closely: are they realistic? Are they genuine? Who actually do the work? Let’s say if a student mentions that the student founded a non-profit that generated (in one case that I read) $80k. So the questions are: where did the donations come from ? Fellow students? (almost impossible even if it’s during 4-year period), Parents? Companies? (what kind, why and how companies would want to donate money to student’s found non-profit instead of established non-profit? Do the parents have power that influence the companies to contribute)?
And that’s why it’s so tricky. I probably put more values on ‘realistic’ volunteering: at church, homeless shelter, tutoring, rather than “founding a non-profit to help students with mental health issues” (that was another real life example and I still wonder how that non-profit worked because it didn’t have any professionals/therapists who can help with students with these issues".
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IME in those rare cases when students have actual substantive nonprofits, they provide extensive written documentation establishing their legitimate funding sources and activities ( eg, received $10k grant from Microsoft to do XYZ, with award letter, or notice from ACLU of selection as grantee). Those are taken seriously by HYPSM. Others, not so much, for the reasons noted above.
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Where in the common app can the the student include the information?
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Well, actually, they do check and that is why the ringleader of the notorious Hollywood Varsity Blues scheme is going to prison, as others have done. Kids were expelled for faking stuff - there are consequences.
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One top 25 school said a student noted in their app that he/she was in charge of a million dollar budget in some org he was volunteering at- they called the org and found out he was just an intern and did not have those responsibilities. They shared that as a red flag during a talk this admission round.
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That’s not how it was uncovered, the colleges certainly didn’t do any checking (though perhaps they are more careful now):
“Authorities blew the lid off the scandal after an executive under investigation for an unrelated securities fraud scheme told investigators that a Yale soccer coach had offered to help his daughter get into the school in exchange for cash. The Yale coach led authorities to Singer, whose cooperation unraveled the sprawling scheme.”
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Shhh…let’s just tell everyone they check to keep people honest! Seriously, some do check. Look at @Have_faith143 ‘s post just above about the student who lied regarding budget responsibility at a non-profit.
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FWIW and at the risk of going off topic, the UC’s regularly audit applications and send out verification requests. Failure to comply results in your application being cancelled.
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