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- there isn't too much of an intellectual atmosphere. Once you get here you'll find out that not everyone is ultra smart. A lot of times you'll wonder how people got in.
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<p>This negative point has really affected me. I mean, the main reason why I applied to Ivy League schools is, precisely, because I thought they would have an "intellectual atmosphere".</p>
<p>And southerndixie, I don't for my life understand why you are bringing up political correctness. The argument concerns respect for other people, which I think is much more important.</p>
<p>oh, btw, rudess, that's bothering me, too</p>
<p>If anything made me think a few seconds before I knew I wanted to apply ED, it was rich people. I know no rich people. Going from a lower middle Catholic school to a rich ivy league school is more of an adjustment than any difference in race, I think. But then, I thought, "Hey I'm going to be rich someday so I need to be able to get along with rich people." I really didn't think that.</p>
<p>I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my Jewish comments. That wasn't my goal nor any intent of mine. I hope the comments by others and myself have helped to clarify it a little bit where I'm coming from. I hope that at Penn race is as big of an issue as I've made it seem here. It probably won't be. I look forward to meeting the many different faces and views of the students at Penn, because, like I probably shouldn't have said earlier... the world isn't 100 percent Irish and Italian Catholics either.</p>
<p>Lol. Some of these comments really crack me up. It is a human tendency for people to gravitate towards people like us and race/ethnicity plays a strong part. Consciously or subconsciously we are all effected by it. I am sorry I am not a saint like you guys that I can shed my insticts and tendencies and actually not have normal human emotions. </p>
<p>It happens and everyone deals with it. I dont have biases but as it happens subconsciously it occurs.</p>
<p>for everyone concerned about the anti-intellectualism: it is and it isn't true. i say that because when i applied ED last year i thought there was no way an ivy league school could be anti-intellectual. truth is, the atmosphere at penn is about as intellectual as the average State U. kids in general have higher sats but intellectual efforts are more geared to jp morgan internships and prepping for mcats. that's the school over all. but if you take classes that interest you, you'll meet kids more interested in the intellectual issues that appeal to you, at least while they're in class. also, the profs are amazing, and big speakers are pretty frequent.
i agree with mathas. concern about the jewish percentage can be about comfort level and not disrespect. it's along the same lines of kids who worry about how "catholic" gtown really is, or attending a historically black college if they're not black. if people are allowed to see the large jewish percentage as a positive, people should be allowed to see it as a negative too, without being seen as malicious.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that bias can be eliminated, but they can be consciously ignored.</p>
<p>I'm disgusted by how many of you keep making up excuses to justify judging people.</p>
<p>Who said we dont consciously ignore the bias?! Read my post (the first one I wrote in this thread). I later said my cautious bubble was blown and I did in fact view them equally as I do to everyone. Being honest and saying your primal emotions in my opinion is the first way to actually develop a strong consciousness of the situation. I know because I have moved across 3 countries, and 8 schools. Its in my blood now ;).</p>
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it's along the same lines of kids who worry about how "catholic" gtown really is
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<p>I don't think that's an accurate analogy because Georgetown has always been a Catholic school, whereas Penn was not founded on the basis of Judaism. At a traditionally religious institution, there is the concern that religious values might influence the education received at the school. </p>
<p>As for the people who are 'uncomfortable' around Jews -- would you feel equally uncomfortable at a school that was 30% atheistic? How about Hindu?</p>
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<p>I agree, it sure has ... but it's gotten kind of silly hasn't it? At this point I don't think its helping many people.</p>
<p>I for one could care less about the %of jews, %catholics, %asians, %caucasian, %african american, %hispanics, or what have you. But that's just my opinon. If anyone feels strongly about these issues, I am the first to say they have every right to voice their opinion, just as I do to voice mine.</p>
<p>How about we agree to disagree ... and move on?</p>
<p>mahras2 -- I think I misunderstood your post, because we seem to basically agree. I believe it's possible to 'train' your mind to ignore bias, to a large extent if not completely. </p>
<p>Coincidentally, I've lived in four countries (one of them twice) and gone to six different schools. Are you a diplomat kid, too?</p>
<p>nope. My parents just like to move too much. jk They have a bunch of businesses and I was getting old enough to go to college so they moved here so that I can finish high school and head over to college here.</p>
<p>BTW no worries regarding the misunderstanding. Point well taken.</p>
<p>ok let me clear up what i mean about anti-intellectualism. 3 of penn's schools are pre-professional. Thus, people in these three school are more geared towards preparing for a career rather than expanding their intellectual horizons. The 4th school is the college. The college has a mix of people. Some people are preoccupied with trying to get into good med schools while many econ majors have wharton-like mentalities (i believe econ is the most popular major in the college, i might be wrong). Then you have the people with intellectual curiosity. So in general, yes people are smart but a lot of people are at penn to prepare for a career rather than for intellectual stimulation. Since I've been here, be it that it's only been 1 year, I have met very few people who were at penn to broaden their intellectual horizons. Snipanlol mentioned that as a Whartonite I really have not been exposed to people interested in intellectualism. Since I am more professionally oriented, this doesn't bother me but from what I've noticed the feel around campus (and not just in Huntsman) is not intellectual. period. Personally I think that penn's campus is not intellectual because a). most people are professionally oriented b). the School of Arts and Sciences at penn does not attract a large number of intellectually oriented students because, to be honest, if someone is looking to study arts and sciences they are better off going to an LAC or schools with a greater focus in this area (dartmouth, princeton, brown). Penn's college has some great programs (some of the best in the nation like econ), dont get me wrong, but in general students looking for intellectual stimulation will be more drawn towards LACs, and the other types of schools i mentioned because they have a GREATER focus on intellectualism.</p>
<p>overall, penn gives you the opportunity to broaden your intellectual horizons but a large number of penn students are more professionally oriented...</p>
<p>bern700 -- That was interesting; thanks for posting.</p>
<p>^ I agree.</p>
<p>Hmm. I, for one, am looking to broaden my intellectual horizons. I imagine the other people in my Sociology and Anthropology classes will be, too. So I should be fine there. If not, I should be able to find a nice group of intellectual people.</p>
<p>oh and to respond to snipanlol's comment about frats. he/she is right you'll be sick of their parties after 2 days, i just didn't want to scare all of you too much. with regards to the secret societies. There are 2 kinds at penn. The first as snipanlol mentioned are just illegal frats that serve hard liquor instead of just beer. The other is Owls, which was started from a frat that was kicked off campus. Owls' atmosphere is more classy, & more international (which I really enjoy because I'm an international). It's not your typical boring american lets get drunk and just stand around until 2 am frat party. Their parties have a lot of international music, people dancing everything from rap to salsa, better alcohol (grey goose instead of bankers club, guinness and stella instead of natty, decent tequila, champagne, etc.). Plus you get to meet some pretty interesting people. There is one frat on campus (a real frat, not an illegal one) called Zeta Psi (referred to as Zetes). This frat is mainly composed internationals from europe. They throw owl-like parties but usually these are late night parties because they arent registered with the school. This is in my opinion the only decent frat on campus.</p>
<p>i think so too chocoman. It really is up to you. Penn provides places where you can expand your intellectual horizons but i personally think that penn students, in general, are more concerned with their careers and their futures to actually take these opportunities. Penn provides a great place for professional people; the university really accomodates the pre-professionals. but it does provide intellectual outlets. Penn is just not as known for this as it is known for its great pre-professional programs.</p>
<p>Hmmm. I want to get in on those good parties. Liquor > beer.</p>
<p>That I do agree with. Maybe I'm just a pretentious European, but I've always seen beer as trashy. Bud Light in flimsy plastic cups especially.</p>