What are the characteristics of a good art or design program?

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>How do you determine that a particular school has a strong art or design program, or that a component of that program is especially good?</p>

<p>Obviously, some schools have a fine reputation. My son wants to study illustration, and he and I have focused on schools like RISD, MICA, RIT and Syracuse because everyone says these are the places to go. But unless he gets more financial aid than I can believe is possible, he’ll most likely be going to a state school. </p>

<p>We live in New York, and aside from FIT (which we’ve ruled out because they push you out of the dorms and into the cruel world of NYC rentals after two semesters), only two schools in the SUNY system offer illustration classes, as far as I can tell. At one, illustration is a major within the fine arts program. At the other, you can take illustration courses as part of a graphic design degree. What questions do I ask to find out if these are good programs, or if we should be looking hard at state schools in other states? </p>

<p>Someone I know who is an illustrator and a teaches illustration recommended the University of Kutztown in Pennsylvania, where out-of-state tuition is only about $12,000. We visited there and had a chance to meet one of the illustration professors, who was very nice and gave us a thorough tour of the art and design building. The facilities look good to me (though I’m no artist), and I trust my friend’s judgment. The school has two people teaching illustration, and both of them are themselves working illustrators. I’m a little concerned about the university, because you don’t need especially good grades and scores to get in, although it sounds like the Communications Design program is more selective than the school in general. </p>

<p>At two of the SUNY colleges, academic admission standards are higher (and within my son’s range) and tuition is about $7,000 lower. But what criteria would I use to compare their art and design program with the one in Pennsylvania?</p>

<p>Any suggestions? Many thanks.</p>

2

<p>I would like to suggest SUNY Purchase, which is very well known for its arts program within a university setting. Also, you should consider Alfred University in Alfred NY. Although not in NY, Mass Art is very inexpensive even for out of state students.</p>

<p>Pratt has a strong Communication design program but is not part of SUNY; thus, it is more expensive. </p>

<p>I think that SUNY Genesco or Fredonia ( forgot which) has a good art program too.</p>

<p>The top schools on the east coast, in my opinion and in graduate ratings for graphic design are:</p>

<ol>
<li>RISD</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>RIT</li>
<li>Syracuse
5.MICA</li>
<li>SUNY Purchase</li>
<li>Pratt</li>
<li>School of Visual Arts in NY</li>
<li>Mass Art</li>
<li>Cleveland Insitute of Art ( five year program with 2 years of foundation)</li>
<li>University of the Arts is good but I hated the area and the dorms. Plus, there is no campus or student center to speak of.</li>
<li>University of Cincinnati: This isn't as cheap as SUNYs ,but has very strong, well-rated programs in design. They also have terrific facilities and new buildings plus a very strong paid co-op program,which does make it cheaper. I should also note that instate, their tuition is about $9,000 but out of state is $23,000. However, it is very possible to obtain Ohio residency after the first year. Check this out with them. Your son would merely have to get an Ohio Driver's License, Ohio voter's registration, go to work or school in the summer there and have him pay UC tuition directly. There are some other rules that you need to check out.</li>
</ol>

<p>Check out my review of University of Cincinnati, RISD, RIT, and Pratt in the alphabetical listings of each school. There is a thread found at the top of each forum that was written by me. If you have any questions about the schools noted in my reviews, feel free to post them. </p>

<p>Hope this all helps.</p>

<p>These are not necessarily in the order of quality.</p>

3

<p>Pick a couple of the top schools and submit an application regardless; you never know what kind of scholarship you might receive, academic or portfolio-based.</p>

4

<p>How about SUNY New Paltz? We know someone going to Kutztown for GD and her art teacher had recommended the program to her. I think her mom's an artist also). We stopped by for a quick visit one day and had the same concerns as you. The academic level is considered lower than most of the schools on taxguy's list and that concerned my d (if she later changed majors). OTOH, if your child's scores/grades are higher than the KU avg, merit $ might be possible. Also seems like FA is tied into merit at some schools, meaning the % of grants could be higher for the student with the better academic record. If you liked KU, it wouldn't hurt to apply and see what type of FA pkg is available. We found a great range of FA offered. OOS schools give huge loans unless you're in the honors pgm.</p>

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<p>Art is a very competitive field. In my humble opinion, she should shoot for the best education possible if she wants to enter the field. Short changing her because some mediocre school might give a better financial aid package might accomplish just that: short changing her. The better schools get more employers interviewing, more career fairs, better job placement and, theoretically, better skills at the end. I guess there should be a balance between very good schools and those that offer the best aid and fit. Personally, I would send my kid to a schools that would be very beneath her because some one gave her good merit aid. Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all for your suggestions. Taxguy, I've been lurking and reading your helpful reviews of various schools for quite some time. And I appreciate the list you provided. But I'd like to know about the thinking behind the list. What do you see/hear about a program that causes you to say, this one is excellent, this is not so great? When you walk into a school, look at the studios, talk to people about the art program, what do you look and listen for?</p>

<p>Fredonia is the SUNY school my son has looked at and where he could very well end up. Neither Alfred, Purchase nor New Paltz offers illustration, or I'd certainly have him looking at all three. My one hesitation about Fredonia is that the illustrator/illustration professor who has been giving us advice pointed out that the person who teaches illustration hasn't himself worked much as in illustrator. It seems (from the bio on the Web site) that he must be a painting teacher who has taken on the extra job of teaching illustration. She says that while he might do a fine job of teaching illustration theory, he wouldn't be familiar with the give-and-take involved in working with writers, editors and other clients, which is important. </p>

<p>I've told my son that he definitely should apply to RISD and MICA if he wants, and to other strong art programs at private schools (RIT and Syracuse are likely candidates). I just want to make sure we line up a couple of safe schools where he can feel happy and get a decent education if he's not accepted or doesn't get enough financial aid at his top choices.</p>

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<p>Jasmom asks,"Taxguy, I've been lurking and reading your helpful reviews of various schools for quite some time. And I appreciate the list you provided. But I'd like to know about the thinking behind the list. What do you see/hear about a program that causes you to say, this one is excellent, this is not so great? When you walk into a school, look at the studios, talk to people about the art program, what do you look and listen for?"</p>

<p>Response: First, I look at the reviews by US News and World Report on both grad schools and colleges and well as other magazines that rate schools such as Design Intelligence.. If they have a highly rated grad school in that major, chances are that this quality will filter down to the undergrads. Most of the schools that I noted above have highly rated programs, with a few exceptions such as SUNY Purchase, and Mass Art.</p>

<p>I also read where the faculty attended at a lot of these schools This could give me an idea of other schools to check out. SUNY Purchase and Cleveland Institute of Art happened to be a school that doesnt' show up highly in rating but have a number of art school faculty that attended there. CIT also has a 5 year program with two years of foundation. It is one of the few schools that does this, whether that be good or bad.</p>

<p>I also check out the US News and World Report ratings for colleges. Although they don't rate art schools or schools with art programs per se, they do have some important statistics such as what percentage of freshmen come back for sophomore year ( which indicates how well kids like the schools) and list 4 and 6 year graduation rates as well as other interesting stats. RISD, for example, has the highest graduation and freshment return rates among all the stand alone art programs. RIT doesn't have a strong 6 year graduation rate etc. </p>

<p>I also read the reviews on students reviews web site. Sorry, I can't post the URL for them since it violates TOS policy here. CC feels that Students review is a competitive site. I do, however, take these reviews with a grain of salt because there could be some bias involved. I just look for trends.</p>

<p>I also read Fiske guide, which I like, for college and universities. They don't normally list stand alone art programs, with the exception of RISD, but they do list other colleges and universities.</p>

<p>Finally, I try to visit the schools. All the reviews that I have posted have been a result of actual school visits. I have a checklist of things to see and do. For example, here is my checklist for our visit to the University of Cincinnati, School of Design, Art, Architecture, and Planning (DAAP) :</p>

<p>Questions to ask colleges and students
A. Questions for Admissions and other deans</p>

<ol>
<li> How much work is assigned in the first foundation year?</li>
<li> Are students encouraged to work together to solve problems or is everything mostly individualistic</li>
<li> How accessible are the faculty?</li>
<li> Does all faculty have set office hours?</li>
<li> Can students email homework projects to faculty to get a “pre review” for feedback?</li>
<li> What percentages of the DAAP students in graphic design or new media apply what they learn to internships?</li>
<li> What are the internships really like, and where are they located?</li>
<li> Is there some sort of senior capstone experience or project?</li>
<li> **If no portfolio is required, are there constant levels that kids must reach to be able to continue in the program? If so, what are these? Is there a weeding out process?</li>
<li>What is the 6 year graduation rate?</li>
<li>What is the student faculty ratio in the DAAP?</li>
<li>What flexibility is there in shaping programs? For example, if Allie wants a combination of new media and graphic design, can she design her courses to achieve most of this goal?</li>
<li>What are the athletic facilities like? ( make sure that you see them)</li>
<li>What goes on in campus for fun, concerts, visiting lecturers etc.?</li>
<li>What is crime rate here?</li>
<li>What is job placement rate of graphic design grads?</li>
<li>What is job placement rate of new media grads?</li>
<li>What percentage of students commute?</li>
<li>What type of support services for both academic and non academic matters exist on campus?</li>
<li>How many students have their own computers?</li>
<li>What kinds of musical events occur on campus? How often are these events?</li>
<li>Is there a chance to participate in a band?</li>
<li>Can a DAAP student take some music lessons or music courses if they want?</li>
<li>Allie was thinking of some form of dynamic program that incorporates web design with music. Are courses available that cover this?</li>
<li>What types of honors courses or unique academic offerings are available?</li>
<li>What are the requirements to get into the honors program?</li>
<li>What safety services are available to students?</li>
<li>What are the crime rates here? How safe are areas just outside of the campus?</li>
<li>What parking facilities do you have? Is parking readily available?</li>
<li>How long does it take to get to class from residence halls?</li>
<li>How long does it take to get to class from upper class facilities such as apartments?</li>
<li>What does school offer over RISD, RIT and Syracuse and other art schools and programs?</li>
<li>Check out the bathroom for cleanliness and whether they use one ply or two ply toilet paper. One ply indicates cheapness.</li>
<li>Eat in the cafeteria to check out food</li>
<li>Definitely tour several types of dorms.</li>
<li>Is housing guaranted for all 4 years?</li>
</ol>

<p>B. Questions of current students:</p>

<ol>
<li> How do you like the school?</li>
<li> How are the dorms?</li>
<li> What do people do for fun?</li>
<li> Do you feel unsafe on campus or around campus?</li>
<li> How good are the professors?</li>
<li> How accessible are the professors?</li>
<li> Can you get a “pre evaluation” of your projects by email before the projects are turned in?</li>
<li> How is the social scene here?</li>
<li> How good are the internships?</li>
<li>What is the weather like here?</li>
<li>Are computer labs numerous enough to never have a problem using them?</li>
<li>Does the school do a good job in updating the software?</li>
<li><p>Would you come here if you had a chance to do it again? Why or why not?</p></li>
<li><p>What kinds of tutoring, if any, exist on campus?</p></li>
<li><p>What are exams like?</p></li>
<li><p>What do students like about the campus?</p></li>
<li><p>What do students dislike about the campus?</p></li>
<li><p>What do students do on weekends?</p></li>
<li><p>What percentage of students commute</p></li>
<li><p>What percent of your teachers didn’t speak English well?
21.What percentage of the DAAP faculty didn’t speak English well?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I should note that my wife is a former published interior designer. She helps evaluate studios and student's work.</p>

<p>Hope this all helps.</p>

8

<p>Did your son visit Parsons School of Design in NYC?</p>

9

<p>Allow me to answer these questions per SCAD to the best of my knowledge, some based on experience, some based on keeping up with happenings and friends:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>How much work is assigned in the first foundation year? All first year students take foundations courses regardless of major; Drawing 1 and 2, Life Drawing 1, Color Theory, 2-D design and 3-D design. The work loads are fairly consistent between foundations faculty, but some have stricter reps. Students generally complete 4 to 6 projects in a 10-week quarter I would guess.</p></li>
<li><p>Are students encouraged to work together to solve problems or is everything mostly individualistic? I'd guess 5 - 10 percent of assignments are group, but in-class critiques are always a part of a project...even with the online degree programs.Some depts. emphasize process considerably.</p></li>
<li><p>How accessible are the faculty? Every class has an online component with discussion board availability and e-mail. All faculty probably use e-mail to correspond with students as needed. All faculty have office hours. </p></li>
<li><p>Does all faculty have set office hours? Yes. They post schedules.</p></li>
<li><p>Can students email homework projects to faculty to get a “pre review” for feedback? Yes. I did.</p></li>
<li><p>What percentages of the DAAP students in graphic design or new media apply what they learn to internships? What's DAAP? Not sure. </p></li>
<li><p>What are the internships really like, and where are they located? Could be anywhere. Some go to Pixar, some to CNN, some to MTV, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Is there some sort of senior capstone experience or project? Depends on the major I think, but I think all 4th years terminate with a Portfolio class.</p></li>
<li><p>**If no portfolio is required, are there constant levels that kids must reach to be able to continue in the program? If so, what are these? Is there a weeding out process? Must maintain a B average in the major.Some students are admitted provisionally. If they don't meet standards, they are dismissed from the college.</p></li>
<li><p>What is the 6 year graduation rate? Don't know.</p></li>
<li><p>What is the student faculty ratio in the DAAP? Don't know, but usually 15 to 18 students per class. Some classes might have as low as 8 or 10.</p></li>
<li><p>What flexibility is there in shaping programs? For example, if Allie wants a combination of new media and graphic design, can she design her courses to achieve most of this goal? Students can take "general electives" in any dept. You can also Minor in another department.</p></li>
<li><p>What are the athletic facilities like? ( make sure that you see them) Improving. There was an article on a new facility on the web site. SCAD has teams in golf, basketball, crew, swimnming, baseball,etc. There are also intramurals. Former NY Knick Cazzie Russell is still the basketball coach I think. Athletic scholarships are available.</p></li>
<li><p>What goes on in campus for fun, concerts, visiting lecturers etc.? Film festival, fashion festival, smaller concerts, departments have guest speakers. I saw photographer Duane Michaels for example. Also, designer David Carson and April Greiman. Other big names come, but I don't know much outside of photo.</p></li>
<li><p>What is crime rate here? It's a city. Use common sense. The school has buses from all dorms to academic buildings.</p></li>
<li><p>What is job placement rate of graphic design grads? Don't know, but I'd guess extremely good.</p></li>
<li><p>What is job placement rate of new media grads? Don't know, but I'd guess extremely good.</p></li>
<li><p>What percentage of students commute? Half? But most commute by walking or bicycle.</p></li>
<li><p>What type of support services for both academic and non academic matters exist on campus? Academic advisors, faculty advisors, counseling, etc. </p></li>
<li><p>How many students have their own computers? Probably at least 50% for majors that use them. The facilities are the very best. Labs are extremely up to date with hardware and software.</p></li>
<li><p>What kinds of musical events occur on campus? How often are these events? Don't know.</p></li>
<li><p>Is there a chance to participate in a band? Start your own!</p></li>
<li><p>Can a DAAP student take some music lessons or music courses if they want? I think they offer some? I remember seeing a picture of a student playing a cello in a catalog.</p></li>
<li><p>Allie was thinking of some form of dynamic program that incorporates web design with music. Are courses available that cover this?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There are multimedia classes.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>What types of honors courses or unique academic offerings are available? Classes that travel to NY or L.A. You can study in France too. Some degrees available online, like Digital Photography, M.A. </p></li>
<li><p>What are the requirements to get into the honors program? Don't know anything about one.</p></li>
<li><p>What safety services are available to students? Campus Security will escort you to your dorm, or call a shuttle for you. Emergency call boxes placed outside a few of the buildings.</p></li>
<li><p>What are the crime rates here? How safe are areas just outside of the campus? Be very careful. Use common sense. The bad areas are on the fringe of the historic district and crime creeps in. </p></li>
<li><p>What parking facilities do you have? Is parking readily available? Not so good. Leave your car at the dorm and use the campus shuttles.</p></li>
<li><p>How long does it take to get to class from residence halls? 5 - 15 minutes.</p></li>
<li><p>How long does it take to get to class from upper class facilities such as apartments? 5-15 minutes.</p></li>
<li><p>What does school offer over RISD, RIT and Syracuse and other art schools and programs? No snow. Rochester and Syracuse are not exactly attractive. </p></li>
<li><p>Check out the bathroom for cleanliness and whether they use one ply or two ply toilet paper. One ply indicates cheapness. Don't know, but the bathrooms in the library were ultra cool I remember.</p></li>
<li><p>Eat in the cafeteria to check out food... Never ate in one.</p></li>
<li><p>Definitely tour several types of dorms. One was old, there are a bunch of new ones now.</p></li>
<li><p>Is housing guaranted for all 4 years? I think so.</p></li>
</ol>

10

<p>I left out one question because I knew the answer for DAAP: What type of accreditation does the school have? Is it also NASAD ( National Association of Schools of Art and Design) accredited? </p>

<p>Also, the above posted questions were specifically for my daughter, Allie. She is interested in Graphic Design and New Media programs. You may wish to alter the questions to fit your needs and interests.</p>

11

<p>No, we haven't visted any of the schools in NYC yet. I've told him that if he wants to, he should look at the Web sites for Parsons, Pratt and SVA (so he starts to get a sense of the differences among them) and tell me which he'd like to explore further. Haven't gotten to that point yet.</p>

12

<p>Taxguy, you said somewhere on another thread that you were thinking of writing a book. I think you should. </p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your checklists. I'd certainly modify them for my son's situation and in fact would reduce them, because I'd find it overwhelming and not entirely useful to have that much data on a bunch of schools. But there are some very, very useful questions there, and I appreciate your taking the time to list them.</p>

13

<p>jdsmom,</p>

<p>My daughter is about to start her freshman year at SVA and I will be happy to answer questions as I learn more about the school.</p>

14

<p>Unsoccer-mom, I, for one. would be VERY interested in your daughter's reaction to SVA. I am interested in evaluation of dorm life, academics, professors, living in NY etc. I was thinking of SVA as a possible grad school for my daughter. Thus, I will find any info on your daughter's life there very informative. That is one school that I have never visited.</p>

15

<p>Yes, I'd be interested in hearing about her experience as well, especially what it's like to be a freshman there. I'd like to hear about the dorm life and whether the school makes an effort to create a sense of community for resident students, or if they're an afterthought in a school with so many commuter students. And, of course, I'd like to hear about her experience in her classes.</p>

16

<p>Well, the first thing I would suggest is to do one of SVA's open houses. There are three of them and they are split by major. If you are unable to make it for the intended major than do another open house. They will schedule a portfolio review if the student is coming from a distance. There were a large number of students volunteering on the day we went and we were both impressed by the students we had contact with. There were department presentations where we were given an overview of the curriculum and the teaching philosophy. We also attended an excellent presentation by the financial aid office. The school had lots of informational printed material for handouts and we were bussed over to Chelsea for tours of the studios. Give yourself plenty of time to visit some of the galleries (there are several), we lost out on that due to coming down from New England during a major snowstorm. We were also provided with an excellent lunch at no cost in their main cafeteria. My daughter went on a tour of the freshman dorm (New Res) and really liked it. She had done six years of summer dorm living including Dickinson and Haverford and said this was the best she had seen. I felt that SVA on the whole did a much better job of presenting their school than did RISD. At RISD, we never heard from anyone other than a low-level admissions rep with a slide presention and after waiting 45 minutes for a tour of the campus to begin, we gave up and did an informal walk around on our own.</p>

17

<p>That does sound like a good open house at SVA. As I said, I'm waiting for my son to take the initiative to figure out the differences among SVA, Parsons and Pratt. I've lumped them together in my mind as "those three excellent art and design schools in The City," but I don't know what would draw him to one or another in particular.</p>

18

<p>I haven't seen SVA, which I should see; however, I would suggest that you check out the thread "overview of our visit to Pratt," which is found at the top of the Pratt alphabetical forum. Pratt has some very good pros going for it and some strong cons against it.</p>

19

<p>Taxguy, I'd recommend that you add another "question" to your list of questions above, based on the discussion you're having on another thread regarding UDelaware. While the 6-year graduation rate is a good thing to know, the cutting rate from the particular program of interest is also important. This is one issue that came up when we were looking for art programs for my daughter -- that some arts programs "cut" (this involves performing arts more often than visual arts). While the schools will usually say that the reason they do this is that they expect all students to uphold high standards, what they sometimes do not say is that there really aren't enough places in the upper two classes for all admitted students and so there truly is competition and a weeding process. </p>

<p>In this connection, it's also important to know what happens to students who are cut from the particular major or department -- do they have an "out"? Does a musician or actress who is no longer a major, for example, still have opportunities to participate, or are the spots in orchestras, ensembles, bands, plays, etc., essentially reserved for majors? In the case of visual arts majors, what happens when they don't finish the program? In a stand-alone art school they may have to transfer in some cases (or maybe just change majors); in a larger university or an LAC they can just "change majors" but perhaps still pursue some art classes or a minor in art/design.</p>

<p>This is the sort of information that can best be obtained during a college visit, including asking current students what happens in these cases.</p>

20

<p>Mackinaw, yes, you are right. Performing arts schools are known to have yearly mandatory cuts in some schools (perhaps many schools). I never realized that it could also occur among visual arts schools. However, based on graduation rates that I have seen at various schools, I would assume that this isn't that bad a problem with visual arts as it is with performing arts. However, it won't hurt to ask!</p>

<p>For Univeriversity of Delaware's design program, you nit the nail on the head. There aren't enough places or facilities available in the upper class years; thus, there are mandatory weed outs. Frankly, I find it very questionable that a school has a high cut percentage regardless of the quality or motivation of the class.</p>