<p>One thing that I’ve heard (I don’t know how true) is that most people just stick to their friend group, so there isn’t the same sense of community that you might find at a LAC or a university with a residential college system.</p>
<p>People definitely have their groups but I was making new friends all the way through senior year.</p>
<p>I always wished watching the sports teams was a bigger deal.</p>
<p>I know my daughter had friends from different groups over the years. Some from her dorm, some from meeting on the plane home, some international students when she stayed over one winter break, some from one coed frat in particular (Zete?), some from her department-especially when she was in upper div and grad students then too, she used to be invited to the grad student teas.</p>
<p>The dorms. One doesn’t go to Brown for its living quarters. or for its school spirit at sporting events. </p>
<p>And what you “heard” about lack of communiity simply is not true.</p>
<p>I would entirely agree with past comments. In terms of interior design, the dorms (with the exception of the newly renovated Andrews, which seriously feels like a 5* hotel) are very much designed as sleeping quarters, rather than being anything even approaching palatial. Brown’s comparatively smaller (though far from small) endowment means we have to be wise with our money to ensure our academic/extra-curricular/fin aid offerings remain highly competitive, or else risk losing many of the students who end up choosing between Brown and other peer schools with higher endowments per student, and the dorms bear the brunt of this endowment triage (on the upside, this triage appears to be working, as Brown’s matriculation rate has shot up rapidly as of late and we remain a remarkably happy bunch). Actually, the fact that the dorms are really more like sleeping quarters makes it quite hard to be a shut-in or only meet people from your dorm, as just staying in your dorm all-day is not particularly desirable. Indeed, perhaps this is one reason Brown doesn’t get as cliquey as many other schools, which is actually one of Brown’s greatest strengths IMO (ironic then, that the actual ‘worst’ thing about Brown actually counteracts what you were falsely told was the worst thing.) Also, most students do probably attend tops 1-2 sporting events per year; that said, if you really want to attend more, there is always the Band, which alot of my friends are a part of and love, so it’s what you make of it. </p>
<p>Also: when there is ice on the aptly named College Hill, you will fall. That can be a bummer, pun intended.</p>
<p>The name. 10 char</p>
<p>The Co-Ed Fraternity system and Program House System is highly flawed, on an institutional level. I think it’s one of the worst things about Brown (and I love Brown.) My strong advice, if you are admitted, is to not join one. </p>
<p>They are great for some, severely harmful to an unfortunate few. Either way, they are also very isolating. </p>
<p>I have heard (and experienced) multiple stories ranging from annoyance at the system to severe bullying or threats to the endangerment of peoples safety and health. (not exaggerating). </p>
<p>The best way I heard it put in terms of the cost/benefit of being involved with these houses was by a friend of mine involved with one of the Co-Ed Fraternities. S/he said “(s/he) had never heard of anyone regretting not joining, but heard a lot of people regretting having joined”</p>
<p>The positive here is that you can completely avoid the scene if you want to. Or just go to their parties…</p>
<p>I wish someone had told me this, so this is my 2 cents…</p>
<p>What makes you think the issues within the co-ed houses rise to the institutional level of Brown? Unless you’re saying that people have gone to the Brown admin to file complaints and nothing is being done about it (and from another post of yours, it appears we overlapped and I was on the greek council executive board from a single sex house and thus assume I would have known about it) the issues you bring up are with the leadership of the organizations, not Brown university. You’re talking about Co-Ed frats which comprise 2/10 houses which means it accounts for ~2% of the student body. I actually completely agree with you with regard to their issues, but I just don’t think it’s fair to say it’s a flaw of Brown in general.</p>
<p>I think NiR may be referring to the co-ed frats as institutions, not Brown as institutions, but I’m not sure.</p>
<p>I was completely disconnected from that scene so I can’t comment.</p>
<p>For me, the most challenging part was having only 32 classes I could take. I didn’t have the chops to do 5 courses (at least of the type I was interested in) at a time so I painfully and carefully chose each of my 32 courses. I could go back and take 32 more and I still wouldn’t put a dent in what I wish I had learned.</p>
<p>As a member of one of the co-ed frats, I would severely disagree with NiR’s statement. There are a few people from my house who joined and then weren’t particularly involved, but I’ve never heard someone express regret in their decision to join either house. You also can’t talk about them as “institutions,” as one is a national co-ed social fraternity while the other only exists at Brown.</p>
<p>There was one complaint about sexual assault involving a member of one of the two houses this past year, but I don’t believe that it should reflect on the house itself, from what I know about the situation.</p>
<p>tencharacters</p>
<p>My comments are based on personal experience and the experiences of several people I know (plus experiences from some acquaintances). </p>
<p>I’m referring to program houses (both greek and non greek) and other co-ed fraternities. I don’t paint all houses with this brush, as I’m sure there are exceptions. I make no comment on single-sex fraternities. </p>
<p>Not everything makes it to the greek council (which is part of the problem)</p>
<p>A lot of people have a great time with the co-ed fraternities and program houses, and it sounds like you are among them. It is not the organizations themselves so much as the way they are run, and the lack of accountability and transparency with the administration (institutional level), that causes harm. So don’t be offended. I do however strongly feel that the severity and frequency of that harm causes them to be a major problem on campus, and not a risk worth taking for any incoming student.</p>
<p>Hi, I was linked to this thread because I was told of “program house bashing.” Glad to see someone else has already responded to the harsh “do not join one” advice given above, but I wanted to chime in.</p>
<p>First off, I actually can agree with you on some points. I have a friend who recently stopped living in her coed frat / program house (I won’t specify so I don’t slander) because some members essentially bullied her into silence and misery. This is inexcusable behavior, and it would be naive for people to assume that this doesn’t happen in frats, program houses, friend groups, suites, classes, work settings, high school, etc, etc, etc.</p>
<p>Now, some cases are more extreme than others, but I don’t think it’s fair to blame the institution. Blame the individuals.</p>
<p>My program house is one of the best things that happened to me at Brown. It is a welcoming community with lovely people, in addition to the drama and BS that happens sometimes. Occasionally people don’t fit in and leave after a year, but that’s unavoidable. If considering a program house or frat, choose carefully. They all have specific “types,” but it’s much more complex. Many people respond “really??” when I tell them I’m a member of my particular community.</p>
<p>I don’t think you were trying to suggest that all formalized residential communities at Brown are devil-spawn (in fact, you say that you’re not trying to do this), but I really hope no one reading this actually believes you that coed frats and program houses are one of the worst things about Brown. Maybe they’re one of the worst things about Brown for a very small, specific subset of people who have had very negative experiences. They’re also the best things about Brown for others (me!).</p>
<p>Also, because you said you didn’t know any of these people, I do know people who are “friends of the house” for my program house (people who are friends and essentially part of the community, though not members) and have expressed regret in not joining.</p>
<p>I would also definitely not talk about greek houses and program houses in the same sentence. They are entirely separate systems and the organizations within them generally have very different goals/dynamics. There’s enough variability within those categories as it is.</p>
<p>I know many people who love the co-ed greek frats and greek and non-greek program houses, I know people who’s experiences were neutral, and i know many people who have been severely abused. I also know “friends” of houses. </p>
<p>It is the way that these organizations are run, and their lack of accountability, transparency, and lack of overall relationship with the university and office of student life that enables people to behave this way, so it goes beyond just irresponsible abusive individuals.</p>
<p>And I am lumping the co-ed greek houses in with the greek and non-greek program houses as they have a pretty similar dynamic. I am not saying all of the houses act in an abusive fashion, but the lack of accountability, the way the system is organized within each house, lends the potential for abuse in each house. </p>
<p>I subscribe to the philosophy that the happiness of a many does not justify the suffering of a few. The fact that it’s a great experience for some does not excuse abuse of a others, like the bullying you mentioned. Something drastic needs to change in the way these organizations are run. I think they fully have the potential to be healthy organizations, but at current, are not. I think the administration should take responsibility for this and take drastic steps in improving the situation. </p>
<p>I do think these organizations are among the worst of Brown. But mind you, I have very few negative things to say about Brown. </p>
<p>And I think incoming students should know about it.</p>
<p>NIR,</p>
<p>Your philosophy is impractical and the antithesis of it is basically the reason behind many aspects of society. Are you anti-computer because of the fact that it contributes to identity theft, cyber bullying, human trafficking, and pedophilia? What about cars given the risk of DUIs and traffic accidents? How about pharmacueticals since people suffer side effects and even death every day from them? Are you against athletics since people might die or suffer from their injuries? There is no such thing as a free lunch; everything in society has a cost.</p>
<p>Is your point that the university is too lenient on greek houses? I’m still just not sure what you mean when you say the university should take drastic steps. I saw plenty of crack down on the organizations - maybe you feel the university should persecute the individuals responsible more? My guess is that it’s hard to prove who exactly is responsible (although the one time we had an incident requiring the university to step in they were quick to remove the person necessary) - and to say this is a problem unique to the greek system is absurd. Greek houses have more oversight than most students and certainly more so than athletic team houses when it comes to their parties and the rules they have to follow - and it shows.</p>
<p>I also still don’t understand the grouping of program and greek houses together. First off the purposes of each group are entirely different. Program houses are meant to simply provide an opportunity to live near people with similar interests (typically only for a year) while the greek houses represent lifelong organizations that foster specific ideals surrounding leadership, service, personal growth, chapter, and national identity (Zete used to be Zeta Psi before it went co-ed and it’s not like they abandoned everything about Zeta Psi when they did). The greek organizations are full of history and tradition and ritual in ways that the program houses are not. When DTau nearly collapsed in 06 they essentially became a longterm program house when they abandoned all of their normal practices to attract more membership and it showed in the types of issues they faced with regard to following university and greek council rules in ways that even historically “bad” houses didn’t struggle with. The Greek council judiciary board was created so that in addition to punishments from the university, we could institute reforms required, and as members of other greek houses, we had a better sense of what the source of the problems were than the administration did.</p>
<p>I know it’s hard because we’re all trying to protect our privacy but if you could try to be more detailed it would really help. I’m just not sure I understand what your complaint and proposed resolution are since to my knowledge, these issues are not unique to greek or program houses (or even Brown) at all.</p>
<p>You would possibly have a point if the program houses and greek houses on Brown’s campus were anywhere near the scale or universal impact of something like cars computer technology. As it stands, too many people are getting hurt in these organizations for them to be, in my opinion, considered okay (despite that some people like them). A handful of organizations at small university should not and does not need to have this kind of cost. </p>
<p>The reason I am referring to both co-ed greek houses and program houses is that 1. some co-ed greek houses are designated as program houses, and 2. the same patterns occur in both, and the abusive situations I have seen happen in both. Additionally, some program houses also are about forming life-long bonds and are very similar in structure and purpose to the co-ed greek organizations. Like I mentioned, I don’t know anything about the single-sex greek organizations and I make no comment on them. </p>
<p>As for leniency towards greek (or program) houses, the administration can only respond to what it knows about. I have a friend in a program house that is currently being told that she will be kicked out if she takes the abuse and violent threats she is enduring from another member to the deans or any part of the administration. But she’s afraid to do that because she doesn’t want to lose all of her friends (not exactly very good friends in my opinion, but most people being bullied by their own friends don’t see that) </p>
<p>As I have repeatedly said, the big problem is insularity within the organization, lack of transparency, and lack of accountability</p>
<p>Ultimately, no one is going to believe or appreciate the severity of the situation without a list of names and stories, and for the sake of privacy, I obviously can’t do that. So instead I’m issuing a blanket warning, as in my first post, to incoming students who are considering choosing one of these organizations and stating that, yes, if you made a list of the worst of brown, they would be on it.</p>
<p>I think I’ve spent enough time explaining this and I really don’t have any more to say. So let’s move on. What do you find to be negatives at Brown?</p>
<p>I always wished the libraries were more comfortable. </p>
<p>And not a big fan of the food (though I hear it has improved since my day!)</p>
<p>@napinrags. – i’ve beenreading your posts re problems at greek/ program houses, then you refer to the food and say maybe it has improved ‘since my days.’ Are your observations re: greek/program houses current or from the past? Just asking, not assuming. Thx.</p>