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</p>
<p>Kind of a silly discussion. No LAC will have the prestige of a major research Uni, almost by definition. Prestige comes from major research, typically scientific, which LACs lack (generally). Sure, Williams may be known for Art History, but that pales in comparison to Cal-Berkeley which has its own place on the Periodic Table of Elements (used worldwide).</p>
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It has two places. ;)</p>
<p>^^three if you count Glenn Seaborg. :D</p>
<p>cbreeze is right. </p>
<p>Pomona is an excellent school for many reasons, not the least of which is the Rhodes count and the fact it has fostered more Fulbright Scholars per capita than any other US academic institution 2 out of the last 3 years.</p>
<p>It is also one of the ten most difficult schools in the US to get into (15.7% vs Berkeley’s 26%); is fifth nationally in terms of highest applicant SAT scores, just behind MIT and ahead of Yale (BTW: Berkeley isn’t even in the top 10); Pomona ranks 13th nationally among all US academic institutions as a feeder school to elite US medical, business and law schools (again, Berkeley isn’t even in the top 35); and adjusted for size, Pomona ranks 15th nationally as a producer of PhD grads *within 0.7% of Harvard, Princeton and Yale. Again, Berkeley doesn’t even make the top 30)</p>
<p>RML says: </p>
<p>Pomona is not as prestigious as Berkeley… This is true even for High School Counselors across America:</p>
<p>Berkeley - 4.7
Pomona - 4.6 </p>
<p>Ooooooh. With that kind of huge, statistically significant difference between the two on grading an obviously subjective parameter, I guess we’re forced to declare “Case closed!”, aren’t we? Nonsense. </p>
<p>Prestige, schmestige. People want the best educational experience possible, and that has more to do with school fit, comfort level and personal initiative than some level of arbitrarily assigned “prestige”. Besides, in Berkeley’s case, like most large universities I suspect their prestige has as much to do with the high profile of their sports teams as it does their academic offerings.</p>
<p>To suggest unequivocally that a generic Berkeley student will enjoy greater prestige, more opportunity, a better education and secure a better career making more money than a generic Pomona student is absurd on its face.</p>
<p>Berkeley is not better because you or anyone else says so. Both Pomona and Cal are top tier schools, and if a student ends up in the right place for them personally and academically either will give them their money’s worth. </p>
<p>To argue otherwise is to childishly wrestle over the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin.</p>
<p>Pomona is a top LAC, no doubt… </p>
<p>But if you go there, many people (especially Californians) will think that you’re instead going to CAL POLY Pomona. (An East Coast parallel is the confusion between Amherst and UMass Amherst.) In general, being associated with CSUs is not a very prestigious thing…</p>
<p>
You misunderstood. </p>
<p>cbreeze clearly meant “RML knows nothing about Pomona’s prestige. It is more well-known outside of CA [than it is inside CA].”</p>
<p>That said, since when does [name</a> recognition equal prestige](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/4939738-post263.html]name”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/4939738-post263.html)?</p>
<p>Ah, the usual large research university vs. small liberal arts college ****ing contest.</p>
<p>Berkeley has more than 16x the undergrads as Pomona so comparing average academic statistics is a pointless exercise. You could probably fill Pomona’s class over multiple times with the talent at Berkeley.</p>
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Yes, the PhD holy grail. Alas Pomona does not grant PhDs. For that, you’d have to go to an actual grad school, where Berkeley is one of the elite…and just so happens to be the largest producer of PhDs in the country.</p>
<p>UCBChemEGrad:</p>
<p>I’m not sure what your point is with respect to the comparative number of undergrads. I quoted hard and fast academic statistics because that is a valid indication not only of the uniformly high calibre of applicants to Pomona, but also the fact that Pomona students graduate after 4 years with a great deal of national and international success even when compared head to head with larger and better known universities.</p>
<p>As IBclass06 says: “ since when does name recognition equal prestige?”</p>
<p>As for your comments about sheer number of PhDs awarded, I’m well aware that 4 yr. liberal arts colleges don’t graduate PhDs as do larger research universities. Nor are they meant to. Therefore one can only compare their respective undergraduate educations and the 4 year results per capita. In that kind of head to head comparison, it is clear which school shows statistically superior results and a higher percentage of successful graduates. </p>
<p>Again, these results cannot be applied without due consideration of my earlier caveats re: fit and attitude, and I agree that, if the available program options suited their needs, Berkeley would be an excellent choice for someone hoping to go on to grad school.</p>
<p>^ My point was you cannot compare two cohorts of radically different size. Berkeley is 2-3 times the size of top privates and 10-15 times the size of liberal arts colleges. Two entirely different animals. That is why LACs and universities are compared/ranked separately.</p>
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I have never said anything to that effect…but I would say you need some level of name recognition in order to be considered prestigious.</p>
<p>UCBChemEGrad:</p>
<p>You say: “Two entirely different animals. That is why LACs and universities are compared/ranked separately.”</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more. But my point is that at the undergraduate level within those rankings the top ten of one is definitely comparable to the top ten of the other.</p>
<p>As far as the idea that some level of name recognition is necessary in order to be considered prestigious, that may be true. But it still depends to a large extent on the size and sophistication of your target market and your need/desire for public recognition.</p>
<p>
Fair enough. </p>
<p>Both Berkeley and Pomona are well respected and prestigious for what they are…the former as a leading public academic research institution and the latter as a highly selective liberal arts college.</p>
<p>This may be the first time any two people have agreed on this type of question. And I’m happy to call it a draw –*but I just can’t resist adding one more adjective to your description of Pomona. It’s not just “highly selective”, it’s also well respected.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
<p>Excuse the fatigue post above. I see you did describe both as well respected.</p>
<p>As I say, its unusual to get consensus on these sites, so I appreciate your equanimity!</p>