What are you parents doing?

Parents Forum
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<p>Intparent, where I am, the school counselors are NOT permitted to inquire about family finances. The counselors provide information about colleges, and options for the students in terms of academics and interests. They are not permitted to ask students or families their income levels or what they can pay for college.</p>

<p>That being said… This is a significant discussion families need to have with their students. Students need to be VERY clear if the family has financial limitations.</p>

<p>In addition, it is my opinion that parents should not be made to feel guilty because their kids want to attend a college that is not financially possible for the family. I got the feeling that the OP felt a need to figure out a way to pay for the eastern colleges the daughter wanted to attend. If this is not financially possible, the student needs to hear that…and work within the financial limitations of her family.</p>

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<p>I believe intparent is referring to a private college counselor hired by the family.</p>

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<p>If the family owns rental properties, they may find that their financial aid does not increase significantly…depending of course on the value of these properties. </p>

<p>If this is a private counselor hired by the family, the parents DO need to articulate their financial limitations to this counselor very clearly.</p>

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<p>We’re full-pay parents. We initially thought we couldn’t afford full sticker price at a fancy private college in the Northeast, but then we realized it didn’t need to come entirely from savings already on hand. That pays for about half of it. D1 contributes her share by taking out the maximum unsubsidized federal Stafford loan ($5,500 for freshmen a little higher in later years) and another $4K/year comes from her personal savings and summer and term-time earnings. We then realized we could painlessly continue to make the same monthly deposits we had already been making to her 529, and we matched that with additional deposits to our own savings account, much of which represented lower expenses as a result of having one less person–and a teenager at that–in the house. Car insurance was a big savings, but things like lower grocery and restaurant bills, lower entertainment costs, less gasoline consumption, all add up. Then we tightened our belts a little, but in ways that ultimately aren’t painful. I drink the free coffee at work instead of picking up that morning latte, and brown-bag it instead of going out for lunch; fewer restaurant meals; less steak and more chicken; box wine instead of the fancier stuff; more modest vacations; traded in our gas-guzzling minivan for a small, fuel-efficient Kia. It works, and we honestly feel we’re making the best and wisest use we could make of the money that comes through our household.</p>

<p>Bottom line, don’t assume the entire cost of college must come out of money you’ve already saved for that purpose. If the colleges are telling you you’re full-pay, there’s a reason for it; it means you have pretty substantial financial resources, and chances are you could put together a plan to pay for it, if it’s a priority for you.</p>

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<p>Ah… that info that the OP plans to retire a year after his D starts college sheds some light on this. I believe you will have to pay the bill by doing what almost all of the rest of us are doing. Working so you have the income stream to pay the tuition.</p>

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<p>bclintonk–we have been trying to tell some friends that exact same thing, except they will trade in private school tuition for college tuition. I think some people have it in their heads that they have to have $200,000 sitting in the bank to pay for college from day one. Most colleges let you do some kind of a payment plan through the year too. For what our kids will owe after scholarships, we can make most of that payment just from paychecks. The rest the kids will come up with after summer earnings, etc. We just have to do that times two this go round so it won’t be as easy this time but because we have 2 they might get some extra money our others did not, maybe??</p>

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<p>It took me so long to write the following post that the thread has now taken a different track, but I am going to post it any way!</p>

<p>Perhaps someone who only knows Cornell College in Iowa,or who like me, wondered why a friend was so tickled that her daughter was going to attend a state school in Pennsylvania, (UPenn) :o will get something out of it.</p>

<pre><code> There are many families like OPs. Each parent making six + figures, the financial flexibility to have acquired substantial assets, and children who have grown up with the
</code></pre>

<p>expectation that it will * always be Morning in America* for them. :D</p>

<p>I know many more of these families than I ever expected to, and they have made choices that best fit their situation.
Some have instate public school expenses covered by high school graduation by programs like Washington states [GET</a>](<a href=“Washington's GET and DreamAhead 529 Plans - Start saving today.”>http://www.get.wa.gov/) program. Others encouraged their kids to attend affordable schools like community colleges or use AP credits to reduce costs. Others bit the bullet and accepted the COA at schools without merit aid,and still others helped their kids find schools the next tier down that did offer merit aid.</p>

<p>All schools have had losses in endowments and donations, and are scrutinizing their balance sheet with a gimlet eye reserving funds for students who are truly exemplary.</p>

<p>Some schools award merit with an expectation that the student has something extra to offer their school. Perhaps they have had greater academic success than the bulk of their students, or maybe they have a special interest in an area the school wants to emphasize.
Since academia is an ultra competitive pursuit, it’s likely that the professors are interchangeable with those at schools whose schools have greater cachet or familiarity.</p>

<p>For those who qualify, there is nothing wrong with attending a school that offers you merit aid to attend, especially if it can reduce your debt to the point that you will have greater flexibility re:job choice or even more education after you earn your diploma.</p>

<p>Of course the schools that use their deep pockets for students with clear need are still very popular. They set an extremely high bar for everyone they accept. ( but as been pointed out, those on the waitlists are likely indistinguishable with those who are accepted)</p>

<p>Repeat to yourself as needed. A very high bar ;)</p>

<p>For those kids who have had pretty successful K-12 careers, with parents who are personally and financially successful, may not find its that big of a leap to feel that a school thati is internationally equated with success is where they belong.
They are still kids,they may not be able to really grasp that “it’s an honor to even be nominated”. That their parents don’t feel comfortable making the financial committment that being full pay at a school that is$50k-$60k a year means.
They don’t want to look anyplace else. They worry that having realistic choices besides their " dream school" would be “giving up”.
It doesn’t help when their parents also think that they deserve to attend the most prestigious university they can think of. Especially if they are an alumna and they know that their child is more accomplished than they ever dreamed of being. :)</p>

<p>It’s tough. Life isn’t fair. :(</p>

<p>So let’s look at those kids for whom life really isn’t fair.</p>

<p>Their parent may not make in twenty years what the first family earns in one.
They don’t attend top K-12 schools, they work after school for household expenses and when volunteers at the food bank asked their mom what they wanted for Christmas when they were little,she said hats and mittens so they could have something new.
They may have relatives who have helped them to put education first as their best chance for a better life, or they may have relatives who are so demoralized that all they can think about is trying to keep a roof over their head.</p>

<p>But something inside of them keeps driving them forward and despite the odds they find themselves applying to the same acclaimed schools that the first student did.</p>

<p>Who knows which one will be accepted where. Many schools are now need aware for admissions even if they weren’t five years ago. A school with $100,000 in aid to give students may decide its more fiscally responsible to give 20 students $5,000 to attend,than 2 students $50,000. That’s their choice.</p>

<p>But…GradeAAA University might say- look at the girl from Lexington- her stats given her background are to be expected. Yes, she could benefit from attending,but dont we already have 500 students just like her? We also can’t offer her any aid, and *this is why. *</p>

<p>The second student has reached a similar level despite a disadvantaged background.</p>

<p>Equally accomplished students, but their starting place was a world apart.</p>

<p>* What could the second student do if given the resources and support that our university has to offer*?</p>

<p>**This^**is why we offer need based aid.</p>

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<p>Unless OP retires for medical reasons and/or at the appropriate age, the college still knows the family’s financial strength, based on the prior earnings and current assets. A voluntary retirement during college-paying years won’t be looked on favorably. The other parent can be expected to continue working- or get a job. Even families that experience a job loss, do not always get a break! If it were easy to tip things in one family’s favor, everyone would do it. Finaid officers are not unwise to the usual shenanigans. </p>

<p>In general, a 2000 SAT can be okay, but what matters, one of the first things looked at is, how the M and CR played out. No way a high W makes up for a lower other. </p>

<p>I don’t know how to say this best, but the ECs listed won’t reach the level some kids offer the Ivy competition. </p>

<h2>Sorry. </h2>

<p>Yay, Emeraldkity. For everything you wrote.
I think many also don’t realize that many kids from struggling families are, nonetheless, knocking themselves out to achieve academically, getting in cc classes, entering competitions, leading in real ways, working, tending to family- and still doing great comm service. Its touching.
Where do people think all those Ivy and top school PhD kids get teaching jobs? A-yup, anyplace they can. Obviously, the better ones land higher, if they can, but quality profs can exist in various corners. At one college we looked at for D1, a top 50, we were thunderstruck at the quality of the profs in her specific interest area- background and current research, classes taught. That school became her logical #2, despite the ranking and common perception (and it had wonderful aid opps.)</p>

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<p>Looking forward what is M,CR, and W? I can’t seem to find a list with all these shortcuts.</p>

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<p>L Bowie, your strategy is something that we’ll have to do. I don’t see anyother way around it. We’ll probably still be short but we’ll have to figure something out that will work.</p>

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<p>Being on the road and not having access to the internet doens’t make it easy to respond to lots of the threads.</p>

<p>In a nutshell, my original posting question has been answered. Plain and simple there is nothing us parents can do (in our situation) but simply just pay the bill if she ends up attending a school back East. That being said, my DD is looking into other schools where the tuition is less and with merit financial help. At this time its hard to say where she will end up going to school, I just know it will NOT be any of our state schools. Either way I will end up paying and hoping as a parent, she makes the right decisions while in school and eventually makes herself employable. After all that is what is important.</p>

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<p>Gtbguy1 - D exactly the same school list (almost) and exactly the same full-pay issue. I let her go where she wanted feeling happy kid = successful college experience (or best shot at it). She chose a no merit aid school and didn’t qualify for needs - and I don’t actually have all the money for it so I shook down the family tree and it worked! </p>

<p>Looks like you might have a better shot than I did getting her to look at mid range good merit aid schools - but I found CC a little too late or I might have tried.</p>

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<p>One of the best best best pieces of information I’ve gotten from College Confidential is to build a list of schools from the ground up, meaning that you start with finding safety schools that your kid would be happy to attend and which you can afford. Has your daughter toured any possible safeties? You’ve said she won’t be attending your state schools. Take a look at <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/881237-ivy-caliber-safeties-matches-condensed-advice.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/881237-ivy-caliber-safeties-matches-condensed-advice.html&lt;/a&gt; and see if anything sounds promising. Anyone who’s been on CC for awhile knows how awful it is to read in April about a student who applied to a list like you describe above and their hated state school, and was only accepted at the hated safety. </p>

<p>If you’re not comfortable with the money piece, then don’t sign the ED agreement. You are paying, and one of your conditions can be that you want your D to see about merit money opportunities EVEN IF you in the end could find a way to pay for Penn et al. ED will rule out that flexibility and the possibility that your D may find that yeah, it would be really really nice to go somewhere that wants you so much they’ll offer you money. The big ED advantage for Penn is for legacies, which won’t impact your D. </p>

<p>M, CR, W = math, critical reasoning, writing subsections on the ACT.</p>

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<p>MaidenMom, I agree CC has been great for lots of great information. </p>

<p>I work with people that went to different schools all over the nation and the one thing I will say is they all really enjoyed thier college experience. Some went to full pay schools and others went to state schools but ALL of them speak very highly of those 4 years. I agree with you, I want to make sure my DD has an experience to remember for years to come. Yeah, there is always the arguement that you don’t need to send your kid to such an expensive school for just a bachelors but that’s not the point. If parents are getting into BIG debt to send thier kids off to an expensive school, now thats a different story.</p>

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<p>No, these are SAT abbreviations. M, CR, W = math, critical reading, writing subsections on the SAT Reasoning Test (or SAT I as some people still call it). Some schools don’t consider the Writing score, some weigh Writing less heavily than Critical Reading and Math (CR+M), some (especially STEM-oriented schools or programs) may weigh Math more heavily, and some give equal weight to all three subscores.</p>

<p>ACT has different subsections: Reading, English, Math, Science Reasoning, and Writing. Most schools say they only look at your highest single-sitting ACT composite score, but some will consider each subscore and may apply different weights to certain subscores.</p>

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<p>Slithey Tove, no we havne’t been to any other schools other than the ones I listed. Between my traveling and her busy schedule we haven’t had a chance to go on another road trip. </p>

<p>If you’re not comfortable with the money piece, then don’t sign the ED agreement. You are paying, and one of your conditions can be that you want your D to see about merit money opportunities EVEN IF you in the end could find a way to pay for Penn et al. ED will rule out that flexibility and the possibility that your D may find that yeah, it would be really really nice to go somewhere that wants you so much they’ll offer you money. The big ED advantage for Penn is for legacies, which won’t impact your D.</p>

<p>I agree with this statement, we havne’t signed anything yet but between our college counselor and my DD still investigating we still have some time before Nov. 1st. And who knows there is still no guarantee she’ll even get in. It really has become a crap shoot getting into any of the Ivies.</p>

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<p>Math, Critical Reading, Writing - the SAT tests.</p>

<p>DH, DS, DD…ACT, SAT, HYPS, STEM, BM, BS, BA…we DO have a ton.</p>

<p>The abbreviations take awhile to get, just ask as they come up :)</p>