<p>MrPrince, calm down. I am not saying that Berkeley is = to HYPSMC. Not at all, if we’re talking about academic reputation and opportunities after graduation. In fact, in terms of student quality, I admit that is general, even the top Claremont Colleges perform better than Cal. However, just because Berkeley accepts average students means it offers so-so education. I didn’t also say that many people are impressed with Berkeley alumni. But then again, I am not also impressed with HYPSMC alumni purely on the basis of school affiliation. In reality, I am more confident with Cambridge alumni. But that is because I am oriented with the kind of education that Cambridge provides. And, i guess most people think that way too. </p>
<p>I am not “putting Berkeley on a pedestal”. I don’t think it is as superior as HYPSMC. But I have reasons to believe that, in many areas, it is comparable, if not slightly superior to the lower-ranked ivies. </p>
<p>I am not saying USC is good school. I am saying USC is a great school. It is a top 30 school in America. But in many measures, it does not compare well with Berkeley. Not yet. Maybe in the long run it will be. But at the very moment, it is not. However, it’s not far from Berkeley in terms of academic quality, opportunities after graduation and general prestige of the institution (brand name power). </p>
<p>I’d like to know what is speculative about it. The 30 points added to the original numbers or that there really is no additional points when you superscore SATs? because even if we would just add 10 points per subject test, the aggregate score would still favor Berkeley. Anyway, I am convinced that there are a lot of smart students at USC too. As the stats suggest, a lot of them have stats equal to if not slightly better than those students enrolled in Cal. </p>
<p>My original disagreement with sentimenGX was that, I don’t see USC and Berkeley as peer schools. to me it’s like Berkeley claiming Stanford a peer school, which is a one-sided notion that only exist in the minds of Berkeley undergrads. Although a substantial number of Stanford applicants are also Berkeley applicants, as the Stanford reports has suggested, Berkeley was just a “fall back” school for those students. In the same way most students who apply to both schools treat USC as a “fall back” rather than the other way around, although not as intensely as the Stanford-Berkeley scenario.</p>
<p>and what is USC known for? winning! what is Cal known for? 49-0 </p>
<p>many (not all) Cal students and alum have a big chip on their shoulder. </p>
<p>and the reaction here to Cal being correctly characterized as a school ranked roughly equal to USC and clearly below the ivy’s and other tier 1 schools, proves that big chip!</p>
<p>Cal’s correct stats:
SAT Critical Reading 590 710
SAT Math 640 760
SAT Writing 610 720</p>
<p>USC passed them this year with higher SAT’s of incoming freshman. Look at Harvard or Stanford SAT’s if you really want to see a huge gap in scores and IQ’s</p>
<p>^ when you compare data, it would make more sense if you use data from the same period/time. Your link would lead us to an old data. so it would be like comparing USC now to what was Berkeley before.</p>
<p>You’re ripping Cal for numbers on CDS, when USC doesn’t have one? USC numbers are the ‘fishy ones.’ You pick your battles and ignore ones you can’t challenge. Nice of you to ignore the superscoring aspect at the very least.</p>
<p>Edit: And I hope you feel better about yourself for picking on RML, who is probably ~ 16 years of age. Nice job MrPrince, Pacheight.</p>
<p>Why would they be stupid for doing so? If they like the school, it fits their needs and their parents’ pocketbooks, what would be stupid about choosing Berkeley? More power to them and I hope they enjoy their time there. </p>
<p>I would personally consider Berkeley worth OOS tuition if my children were so inclined to look there (which they aren’t, for many reasons - just not their style). I wouldn’t consider the other UC’s in random cities that mean nothing to me to be worth it. Doesn’t make them bad schools, and doesn’t mean people shouldn’t send their kids there. </p>
<p>You don’t really realize, do you, how bad it makes you look that you have to tear down USC because it’s all so important that everyone know that in the state of California, once you’re past Stanford, Berkeley’s next? Why does it make any difference to you whatsoever whether there are clear tiers of Stanford > Berkeley > USC versus “hey, they are all great schools, enjoy”? </p>
<p>And you keep equating <em>what other people think of one’s choice</em> or <em>how many people make the same choice</em> with the wisdom of one’s choice. You keep thinking that what other people think or do is the “right” answer.</p>
<p>This is just so silly… I went to USC and my son goes to Cal. USC has become a much better university since I went there, but they are both excellent schools. I think it’s ridiculous to argue about this, but I’m sure everyone is having fun with the discussion… Carry on…</p>
<p>I know Cal is a very, very good public school. And at one time it actually used to be available to everyone in California. But at 30k a year now and an undergrad student body of 26,000 it’s hard to argue that it is as good as a privately run, smaller student body, school. And it’s silly to argue that its undergrad is in the same league as HYPS etc…The kids at Cal are bright and talented, but not as bright and talented as the kids at HYPS etc…</p>
<p>I agree with that to an extent… I think in some majors (College of Chemistry and Engineering for example), there are kids who are as bright and talented as those at HYPS. Okay, that’s it for me. I’m off to start my weekend!</p>
So let me see if I understand your argument… Berkeley is a very, very good public school and was even better when it used to be available to everyone in California…but now that it’s expensive and big it’s not as good as it used to be…instead smaller, more restrictive private universities are better… Did I get this right? </p>
<p>California population has grown. Shouldn’t enrollment grow to maintain access?
Blue & Gold Plan is expanding. Familes with incomes under $80k/year won’t pay any tuition/fees. </p>
<p>
How does a multiple choice test on math and reading comprehension test ingenuity and creative thinking?</p>
No, that’s what new UCs such as UC Merced are for; which is BTW still drastically underpopulated, attracting sub-UC caliber students, and overall simply not performing up to par. If things don’t get better in 20 years, I would honestly recommend demoting the university to a CSU.</p>
<p>Might I add UC Berkeley and UCLA remain overpopulated, especially Berkeley considering its not exactly located in a sprawling metropolis. We have 4 UCs catering to 1800 - 1900 SAT students yet only 2 UCs catering to 2000+. Most UCs are skating 25k students and then we have an abrupt jump.</p>
<p>I think its time for UC San Diego to develop into the third 2000+ UC. ~25k students per campus is enough. Anyways, reducing student population will make the schools more prestigious.</p>
It’s a much better way to gauge a person’s intelligence than GPA. GPA depends on school quality, teacher quality, too many variable/unfair factors…</p>
<p>I know so many students who study the night before a test and earn an A+ on an exam and mindlessly attempt homework and get full points. The teachers in my old high school used to simply re-use questions from previous exams on the finals. Its SO easy to get As in these classes and forget the material/concepts the next second.</p>
<p>You can’t do that on the SAT as everything on the SAT is conceptual and somewhat intuitive.</p>
<p>
Hahaha, but its fun to pick on little brats. And this guy apparently has a wife who went to Berkeley! He hasn’t even attended Cal himself and yet he’s defending it. What a funny little 16 yr old.</p>