<p>BC is just College Board talk for second semester calculus. It wouldn't be used in a college.
I'm not sure what I didn't address that I was supposed to. That's fine if you want to or need to use a calculator, I was just saying you didn't need to. There is only about one other person that doesn't use it that I know, and he uses it for arithmatic like I do. That's cool if you use them for checking graphs and everything. I'm not going to lie and say I have never used it for anything, but it would have been a matter of convenience (ie 5 minutes before class and I have to set the derivative to zero and solve, I'll use equation solver and find the x values) than a matter of not knowing the calculus behind it. But, yeah...I think that should be it.</p>
<p>The graphs where you can't solve for y, you can still look at them and figure out what they're going to look like (plug in y-values and solve for x or whatever). I didn't find my calculator necessary at all for my class, though it certainly can help you do things faster.</p>
<p>(By the way Patrick, TheDad was agreeing with you. There should be sarcasm tags in BBCode).</p>
<p>Doh! It's so obvious once it's pointed out! Sorry, TheDad! I really do apologize for not catching the irony in your words. I was thinking, he doesn't sound like MY dad, haha. Thanks, birdofprey425, for pointing that out! ....<em>but pencil, paper, and time does work</em>... The crazy things that go through my head before I get something.</p>
<p>TheDad correctly said:
[quote]
It's amazing what you can do with pencil, paper, and time.
[/quote]
emphasis on "time".</p>
<p>The time mostly comes with deriving and coming up with new ideas and theorems. Leibniz and Newton already did that. Students just have to regurgitate it which doesn't take so much time.</p>
<p>top math programs dont allow calculators.... i took multivariable calculus and is currently taking linear algebra at UC Berkeley and neither class allows me to use a calculator.. Not to mention a TI 83 wouldnt help you very much in Multivariable calculus or Linear Algebra.</p>
<p>Spelling doesn't count in BC Calculus...I hate microsoft word. The spell check and auto correct stuff have ruined my spelling. I don't know how to spell anything anymore. But I still can rap off antidisestablishmentarianism at a good tempo...."a-n-t-i-d-i-s..." haha. I recommend a TI-89 as I said before. While doing things the hard way is important to build the concepts, it doesn't make sense when you have the ability to do it the quick way. It's like using a metal file versus a CNC machine...</p>
<p>"I'm not going to lie and say I have never used it for anything, but it would have been a matter of convenience (ie 5 minutes before class and I have to set the derivative to zero and solve, I'll use equation solver and find the x values) than a matter of not knowing the calculus behind it."</p>
<p>Now this is just plain ridiculous. What on earth do you think a calculator is for other than convenience? I guess I didn't realize I had to make it any clearer. Obviously we both appreciate the core concepts behind the calculus and understand it is absolutely crucial to do so anyway to get a 5 on the AP exam (which is, as I understand it, 40-50% non-calculator). The point is that a TI-89 aids you in an extreme fassion in checking for silly mistakes, understanding the nature of graphs, expounding upon simple concepts with humongous numbers, and the like. </p>
<p>Half of our tests/quizes don't even allow a calculator, but that doesn't change the fact their usage is called for when you are prepping for these things, now does it? Perhaps your class is designed lesser for calculator usage and your problems are designed around this course philosophy. I will have you know it was a pre-requisite for all students in the program I'm enrolled in to have a highly capable graphing calculator (I think the bare minimum was TI-83 and I only know one kid who has one of these), so your assertion that "I don't need a calculator" doesn't include the rest of us. </p>
<p>As for TheDad, I'm highly amused by your ignorant statement that "
It's amazing what you can do with pencil, paper, and time." Lol, as if that somehow disproved the fact a calculator was needed for high school calculus. A lot of us have more on the table than calculus, and don't have time to redo problem #63 which deals with highly complex numbers coupled with several calculus concepts. </p>
<p>A simple check on the TI-89 determines whether or not we are absorbing the underlying principles of calculus under application properly or not, within a matter of seconds. If that isn't crucial for the versatile student's A, I don't know what is.</p>
<p>GeorgeS, a caculator isn't required for Calc BC, even for complex problems any more than a word processor is required to write a poem. The niftiest current tool? Yes. Required to learn the material and do problems? No. One of the good things about a slide rule is that batteries never died at inopportune moments. True, you got answers only to three sig figs but for most applications that was good enough. And if it wasn't, you punched up some Hollerith cards and submitted the deck for batch processing. Fwiw, I was working in an engineering environment before you were born and worked computers that required wiring a patch board before you ran a program.</p>
<p>Patrick, you will find that in the technical working world, a mathematician/engineer/scientist who can write up a presentation in clear English that includes proper spelling and formatting will usually get ahead waaaay faster than the guy who is just brilliant at cranking numbers. Do not be dismissive of things like spelling, even in a technical field. I understand that high school math and science courses generally don't care about such things...the working world is a lot different. It's easier if you adjust your attitude now instead of having to scramble later.</p>
<p>TheDad, I usually take much more care in spelling. I was just giving the "typical" discussion board comment. I didn't think it sounded right but for some reason I've never thought about it's root. How wierd is that? I always get many compliments on my presentations and speaking skills so don't worry about me, that was just a little slipup. Anything were spelling could possibly be an issue (a presentation, report, conference, etc) there are NO mistakes. I just took a little more of a lax attitude while typing a quick reply on a forum.</p>
<p>And GeorgeS, I believe that your intent and meaning was that a calculator WAS necessary and not just a convenience. The calculator is most likely required for people who can't draw graphs without it. There are many ways of graphing an equation and only one of them involves a calculator. Nothing I've done has called for the usage (ie made necessary the use) of a calculator. It's clear that I share a different idea of the role of the calculator in math than you do. I don't think it has a crucial role, as evidenced by the progress made in mathematics before the calculator was invented. The most brilliant minds in our history didn't have a TI-89 to quickly check the answer to #63.</p>
<p>I also thought it was painfully obvious that when I use the word "I" I am referring to me and not including anyone else. That's why I used "I" and not "all of us" or "we."</p>
<p>What do I feel is necessary for an A in calculus? A good mind. Calculus is not for everyone. Many people not very good at math are in my class, and they also happen to be the ones using their calculator all of the time. Coincidence? You decide.</p>
<p>I think despite all the apparent disagreement we are actually all agreeing.</p>
<p>A calculator can be a very powerful tool. It expedites the solving of problems that the human brain would take much longer to crunch the numbers for. Graphing for example, is just super-fast number crunching. However, unless you happen to know the zeros of your y'' are points of inflection for y, your calculator is pretty useless for solving the problem.</p>
<p>Patrick, not a problem then. Spelling and grammatical usage by engineers and other technical folks is a burr under my saddle. When I was in engineering school, the motto was "It used to be I couldn't spell "ingineer," now I are one." So many pre-engineering students blow it off and it bites them in the butt. You will notice that the SAT Verbal scores at some of the more competitive schools are climbing to very respectable levels: you don't get 1480-1550 scores without a decent Verbal.</p>
<p>voyage 200 might do</p>
<p>I have a 790 on verbal. "Stopgap" was what kept me from the 800, haha. That is one word I will never forget. People who misspell or use corruptions of words (ie email speak such as "Wut r u doin tommrw? lolOMG!") get on my nerves, but we all make mistakes everyone once in awhile, I just try to not make it a habit. B)</p>
<p>i have afriend who is a freshman at duke this year. he wasnt allowed to use an 89, so he traded it in for an 83.</p>
<p>"Spelling doesn't count in BC Calculus...I hate microsoft word. The spell check and auto correct stuff have ruined my spelling. I don't know how to spell anything anymore. But I still can rap off antidisestablishmentarianism at a good tempo...."a-n-t-i-d-i-s..." haha. I recommend a TI-89 as I said before. While doing things the hard way is important to build the concepts, it doesn't make sense when you have the ability to do it the quick way. It's like using a metal file versus a CNC machine..."</p>
<p>I have the same problem with Microsoft Word! Damn it to hell!</p>