What can I tell you that will help you make your decision?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
21

<p>What sort of advising do the freshman receive? If you have an idea of your intended major do receive an advisor from that department right away? Will the students have an opportunity to speak with people in their department of interest during CPW? When are courses selected? Over the summer or during orientation?? Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.</p>

22

<p>Math at MIT</p>

<p>There is kind of no point in seeking credit for college level math courses you may have taken in high school other than calc and diff eq. My son had a bunch of other stuff he probably could have gotten credit for by taking exams (he was taking grad level math courses in high school), but didn't bother. Beyond calc and diff. eq. you simply have to have 8 math courses of your choosing in order to get a math major. Any math major would want to take at least that many math courses at MIT anyway, regardless of how many credits they got for pre-MIT work. Here is a description of requirements for math majors:
<a href="http://math.mit.edu/undergraduate/degree-options.html#opt1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://math.mit.edu/undergraduate/degree-options.html#opt1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Getting credits towards graduation is really not an issue for the same reasoning - no matter how many credits people have coming in, they generally want to stay the full 4 years and end up acquiring many more credits than they need to graduate anyway. You also do not have to have credit for a prereq in order to take a higher level course. If you feel that you have adequate background for a higher level course, you'll be able to take it (you might have to talk to the prof). My son was able to get into grad courses as a first semester freshmen.</p>

<p>A 5 on the AP calc BC exam gets you automatic credit for first semester (single variable) calc. You have to submit a syllabus and other documentation to apply for transfer credit for college courses taken in high school. They are very stingy about it, and they won't tell you whether or not you have the transfer credit until orientation. On the other hand, it is very easy to take an exam to get credit for multivariable calc. It is available at orientation and at least once a semester. Differential equations is more problematic - they are unlikely to give you credit for a course taken at, say, a community college. But they also require you to complete an entire semester's worth of homework sets before you are allowed to take the MIT exam to get credit for it. So no matter how thoroughly you have mastered the subject, it's a time-consuming project to take the exam (although less of a pain in the rear than repeating the course).</p>

<p>MIT vs. Caltech for math
Well, there is a lot more course selection at MIT. You can choose multiple "flavors" of many courses, so that they can be as theoretical or as practical as you want. There are fewer courses to choose from at Caltech. If someone comes in basically having already covered the undergrad curriculum while in high school (and both MIT and Caltech get some kids like that), they are going to run out of courses to take at Caltech. At that point they will function more like a math grad student, specializing early by doing research and independent study under the direction of faculty. If a student knows they want to specialize early, the opportunities for a closer personal relationship with faculty might be better at Caltech because of the small size. If a student is more interested in trying lots of different things, the greater course selection at MIT might be better. Both schools are awesome. Anyone admitted to both can't make a wrong decision.</p>

23

<p>Thanks much for the mostly balanced and fair discussion, texas137, but I had to point out one thing...</p>

<p>
[quote]
There are fewer courses to choose from at Caltech. If someone comes in basically having already covered the undergrad curriculum while in high school (and both MIT and Caltech get some kids like that), they are going to run out of courses to take at Caltech.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is absolutely false. Not once in over 30 years (my professors' memory) has anyone in math at Caltech ever "run out" of courses to take or even come close. (And this is including all the IMO winners, etc. etc.) Even if you come in having fulfilled every requirement for a math major (and even this hasn't happened in the past 30 years), there would be enough courses to fill a very tight 4 year schedule. Remember that in every single major subdiscipline -- analysis, topology, geometry, and algebra -- there are at least 3 "tiers", i.e. 3 yearlong courses of formal coursework... and that is not counting the advanced courses in combinatorics, logic, etc. And if somehow someone manages to finish this as an undergrad (once again, something that has never happened in recent memory), there is a new crop of advanced topics courses ("190s") being taught every term, and these change annually, so one could never "run out" of them, in principle. And that isn't counting the advanced topology and algebraic geometry courses jointly offered by the physics department...</p>

<p>I remember as a naive frosh I once asked a senior who was going off to grad school at Princeton whether I would "run out" if I went too fast and he couldn't stop laughing. Then he explained to me what I explained above. So I figured I'd pass on the knowledge.</p>

24

<p>More generally about Caltech vs. MIT for math. Both programs are obviously excellent. It is my impression that at Caltech it is easier to get undergraduate research opportunities in mathematical disciplines and the work is better paid (SURF vs. UROP). I've never had trouble getting a SURF -- in applied math, pure math, or mathematical work in the applied sciences. There is probably a more collegial feeling between students and faculty at Caltech, owing to the small size. It's more fun to do math in the sun... :-)</p>

<p>What texas137 said about tracks is true -- MIT offers an analysis lite and "real" real analysis, whereas Caltech only offers the real kind. Part of it is size-related, part is philosophical... the bar is generally set pretty high.</p>

<p>But it is definitely true that both schools are incredible and you cannot make a wrong choice, so go with the one that gives you a better "feel".</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
Not once in over 30 years (my professors' memory) has anyone in math at Caltech ever "run out" of courses to take or even come close.

[/quote]
Hi Ben!
I'll certainly amend my generalization. I'm getting the comparison of math at MIT vs Caltech second hand from my son, who certainly does not know as much about math at Caltech as a Caltech student would. It is entirely possible that he simply felt that he personally would run out of courses at Caltech that he wanted to take. There are entire fields of mathematics he has no interest in, but he didn't particularly want to move into research early. I know that he poured over math course listings and schedules at both places pretty thoroughly during the decision phase, and anyone else in a similar position should do the same. Some of the courses in the Caltech catalogue are only offered in alternate years. Anyone trying to make this choice should try to spend time at both schools and to meet with someone in the math department who can go over the courses they have already had and discuss what their opportunities would be likely to be. Both schools are incredible! I personally would have chosen Caltech after visiting both (gorgeous campus), but my son is very happy that he chose MIT.</p>

26

<p>Sure, I understand, I was just eager to correct a not-completely-uncommon misperception : ). Also, to be fair, a lot of people who took a lot of courses in high school "check off" the corresponding courses in the catalog, assuming they're "done", whereas in reality the depth can vary very widely. </p>

<p>A perfect example is algebraic geometry. Conceivably someone who took a course with that title somewhere might think they're done with it, but the Caltech algeom course certainly wouldn't be review -- the professor who teaches it is crazy and goes to such depth that some of the results he presents weren't even published when you would have taken the course in high school. So for the very advanced, it's important to be aware that course titles and blurbs are of limited descriptive value. This isn't really super-relevant, but a rumination that I've wanted to share about comparing apples and oranges.</p>

<p>Edit: Hahahahaha, Texas, the best thing going for Boston in my book when I was deciding where to go was the snow ;-) But then again I'm from Russia.</p>

27

<p>
[quote]
a lot of people who took a lot of courses in high school "check off" the corresponding courses in the catalog, assuming they're "done", whereas in reality the depth can vary very widely.

[/quote]
Absolutely! Getting back to MIT (since this is the MIT forum), that is probably why they don't give much transfer credit. They won't believe you have the equivalent of their course unless you can pass their exam. I think the same is true at Caltech.</p>

28

<p>Can you use an EPGY course that was taken and somehow use that as transfer credit, etc?
Also, it's been a whole year since I took Calc BC (for which I got a 5), and I think I forgot a lot from it. I'm sure I could self-teach myself and get back on track. But I did take multivariable differentiation through EPGY (tho I really didn't get a good grade).<br>
If I'm going into engineering, should use the Calc BC credit only, or Calc BC AND EPGY credit, or just start from scratch @ MIT? Thanks in advance~</p>

29

<p>Hey Mollie. I noticed your initial major was brain and cognitive sciences. Can you tell me more about that because I am also interested in majoring in this field since it combines psychology, neuroscience, and biology, my favorite subjects? Also why did you switch to biology? I plan to go into the field of medicine or scientific research. Do you know if a lot of MIT students go to med school? Thanks.</p>

30

<p>

I just know a couple of people who played in Symphony</a> Orchestra. But I'm sure if you contact the students on the "contact" page, they'd be more than happy to give you any details you'd want to know.</p>

<p>

There are tryouts for the a capella groups, and I guess it's sort of competitive to get in, but if you did all-state you should be fine. (I made both of the groups for which I auditioned, Resonance and the Chorallaries.) There are enough groups that I think most people who are interested are able to join a group.</p>

<p>Most freshman dorm rooms are doubles, but your likelihood of getting a particular kind of room depends on the dorm you choose. All of the dorms have singles; only in Macgregor, EC (any EC kids care to confirm or deny?), and Senior Haus do you have a shot at getting one as a freshman. All of the dorms except Macgregor have doubles. Baker and McCormick have triples, and Baker sometimes has quads depending on how much crowding there is on campus.</p>

31

<p>hsmom:
[quote]
What sort of advising do the freshman receive? If you have an idea of your intended major do receive an advisor from that department right away? Will the students have an opportunity to speak with people in their department of interest during CPW? When are courses selected? Over the summer or during orientation??

[/quote]
There are several different "styles" of advising for freshmen, but advisors are not from your "intended major" department until you officially declare in the spring before your sophomore year. (After first semester, some first-years have the credits and grades to declare in Jan., the website for first-years will explain that. Once you're declared, then you are assigned to a faculty advisor in your major.) There is traditional freshman advising with a faculty or staff member, residence-based advising (certain dorms form advising groups that are also living groups), or Freshman Advising Seminars. For the Class of '10, more information can be found here.</p>

<p>Students will receive mailings about advising later this summer, and will have to choose the type of advising they're interested in before freshman year starts. Their online advising folder, available in Aug. sometime I think, will give them their AP credits and math and English diagnostics tests which they have to complete early in the summer.</p>

<p>There is plenty of time during CPW to speak with faculty members or students in departments they're interested in, and many departments offer receptions where groups of faculty and students meet informally with prefrosh (and there's FREE FOOD!). The CPW schedule will list department receptions, and it's always OK to send email to anyone the student particularly wants to meet up with during CPW.</p>

<p>Courses are selected just after orientation week, although there is a summer lottery for some HASS (humanities) classes.</p>

32

<p>
[quote]
All of the dorms have singles; only in Macgregor, EC (any EC kids care to confirm or deny?), and Senior Haus do you have a shot at getting one as a freshman.

[/quote]
Mollie, my son lives in EC and is a first-year. At the start of the year, he was in a "crowd" with another freshman (two of them living in essentially a single), but at midyear some space came available and they were able to move into singles. It depends on the floor in EC, but there <em>are</em> singles available to freshmen in EC, yes.</p>

33

<p>

There will be more info up on the first-year website about transfer credit in a few months. At the moment there's not much there, although math transfer credit information is [url=<a href="http://math.mit.edu/undergraduate/transfer-credit.html%5Dhere%5B/url"&gt;http://math.mit.edu/undergraduate/transfer-credit.html]here[/url&lt;/a&gt;]. Generally speaking, if you want transfer credit, you'll have to present a syllabus and transcript and the transfer credit examiners will decide whether the course was substantial enough to award credit. They don't always do that. </p>

<p>For calc, a really great option is to take 18.01A/18.02A -- the first six weeks of the term, you review single-variable calculus, then you jump right into multivariable. You get a nice review of single-variable concepts, but you're still ready to take 18.03 (diff eq) in the spring, keeping you on track to get your intro engineering classes done when they need to be.</p>

34

<p>

Actually, I'm still a brain and cognitive sciences major, too -- I'm a double-major. :) I chose to pick up a second major in biology because I was already taking a bunch of bio classes just for fun. (And because I am apparently at least slightly crazy.)</p>

<p>BCS is a great department, and I've enjoyed being in it. The department's pretty small -- only about 35 or 40 undergrads declare BCS per year -- and upper-division classes are frequently smaller than 20 people. There's a lot of flexibility within the major to take classes in which you're interested in any order you want. We just moved to a new building, and it's super. I wrote a blog entry about course 9 [here[/url</a>].</p>

<p>About 10% of MIT students consider themselves pre-med, and about [url=<a href="http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html%5D75%"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html]75%&lt;/a> of those who apply](<a href="http://mollie.mitblogs.com/archives/2005/10/a_lot_about_cou.html%5Dhere%5B/url"&gt;http://mollie.mitblogs.com/archives/2005/10/a_lot_about_cou.html) get into medical school. If you are pre-med, you are assigned an advisor in the MIT career office in addition to your faculty advisor. The premed advisor will help you make sure you're on track to apply, have all your letters in the right place, and are applying to the right schools.</p>

35

<p>Thank you molliebatmit and mootmom. :-) I'll give the links you posted to my daughter. What is the typical courseload for freshmen? I understand that first semester the grades are sealed?</p>

36

<p>Freshmen are limited to taking 54 units in the fall term and 57 in the spring. A normal class is 12 units, so this means that freshmen usually take four classes (and a seminar if they wish) each term.</p>

<p>Generally, first term freshmen take chemistry, calculus, physics, and a humanities course; second-term freshmen take calculus, physics, a humanities course, and a course toward their intended major (perhaps biology or organic chemistry or intro to computer science).</p>

<p>First-term grades are known only to yourself and to God (and your advisor) -- they don't show up on your official transcript, and they don't even show up on your unofficial transcript. You get a sheet of paper at the beginning of second term with your first term grades, and you can burn it if you want. :)</p>

37

<p>thank you very much mollie! </p>

<p>on a different thought, it's sad that you're leaving while we're arriving : )</p>

38

<p>
[quote]
it's been a whole year since I took Calc BC (for which I got a 5), and I think I forgot a lot from it. I'm sure I could self-teach myself and get back on track. But I did take multivariable differentiation through EPGY (tho I really didn't get a good grade).
If I'm going into engineering, should use the Calc BC credit only, or Calc BC AND EPGY credit, or just start from scratch @ MIT?

[/quote]
I doubt if you would be offered credit for the EPGY course, especially since you "really didn't get a good grade". EPGY courses are also only one quarter, and MIT courses are on a semester system. There is no risk to taking placement exams during orientation. If you bomb one, there's no harm done (that won't be the case later). You could take an exam in anything you have background in and use the results to guide what courses to take.</p>

39

<p>

Hey, no worries. Adam and I are moving to MIT family housing for his senior year, so I'll still be living on campus. :) Don't know how often grad students are let out of their cages, though.</p>

40

<p>At MIT, can you design your own major or minor? I am interesting in pursuing a field that most schools don't offer a major for. Particularly I am interested in a minor in Psychopharmacology and Nutrition. Does MIT offer these or allow me to create these like schools such as UPenn?</p>