What classes is it advisable/not advisable for aspiring freshmen engineering majors to "test" out of

College Majors Engineering Majors
21

My son is in third semester calculus, which is multi-variable. Several of his friends already took it, but none tested out of it that I know of. He had a 5 on his AP Calc BC exam, and we talked about what class he should take.

When it came down to it, if he used all his APs, he would have more than a semester’s worth of credits “transferring in”. So now he has a semester available to do a co-op without worrying, or maybe a semester abroad.

I cannot imagine, for the life of me, and knowing the material on the AP Calculus BC exam pretty thoroughly, that it would be productive for a student who got a 5 in May on the exam to go back to square one “what is a derivative?” and “what is an integral?”.

It is more productive to move on and spend time on other things.

Thus, the major benefits I see for “skipping” all you can are:

  • graduating early if you want (if your college allows that and both allows you to skip and get credit, like my son’s college does)
  • doing a co-op for a semester without worrying about graduating late
  • doing a semester abroad, again without worrying about graduating late
  • not being bored in material that is old hat for you

And one other secret - YOU CAN CHANGE CLASSES!!!

If, let’s say, someone took AP Calc BC junior year, got a 5, and took no math senior year, and signed up for Calc 3, and they got to class and were blown away, they could switch to Calc 1 or Calc 2. This would be within the first week though, if you don’t want to miss much.

And finally - again, if the college allows credit as well as skipping - if the student has more than a full semester of AP credit, mom and dad save 50% of yearly college costs. We save 20K, and my son’s loan total is less than twice that. Nice to have a cushion to help him out if we need to.

22

^^

I’ll respond to your points @ucbalumnus

a) Did not exactly understand what you are getting at. If one follows the standard recommended courses and does well enough to meet the pre-reqs for the electives, does not matter - again harping back to the shortened time as benefit (!?!), not the lack of choices of electives For example, if a student drops out to do a co-op for a few months, does this reduce his/her choice to take certain electives if he/she has decided the extra time is worth it?
b) Not really again… one can do summer courses, extend time to do more electives than are required, do a post-grad, etc., etc
c) Obvious, only if one has done well enough to meet the requirements of the pre-reqs

I’ll give my counterpoints
a) 18 or so is normally too early for many to dive head long into advanced courses, especially if they do not know what the competitive surroundings are. This is especially true in the Engg. school domain.
b) Enjoy the college experience in addition to the learning goals. After all, as I have stated earlier, college life is normally 4-6 years out of a person’s 40-45 years of working life.
c) Doing well in the core courses builds additional confidence to handle the tougher road ahead and not flame out early.

23

“a) 18 or so is normally too early for many to dive head long into advanced courses, especially if they do not know what the competitive surroundings are. This is especially true in the Engg. school domain.”

Age is meaningless in this regard. Do you think someone who is 20 taking Calc 3 but at 18 just finished pre-calc is better off than someone who is 18 and and just tools Calc 1 and 2 in high school and was graded as “extremely qualified” (a 5)?

I agree that do not overload on classes, but that’s exactly what getting AP credits will help with. My son’s most difficult class BY FAR is Calc 3 this semester. Do you want to guess what classes he will have first semester sophomore year? It won’t be humanities and intro courses.

Would I say necessarily take the maximum AP credit possible? No, but pick and choose in the correct manner, and consider finances if they are an issue.

24

For (a), having a looser prerequisite sequence means that one has more options in terms of “take X this semester or next semester?” perhaps to avoid a schedule conflict with some other desired course or part time work schedule, take it with a preferred instructor, avoid taking too many difficult courses in the same semester, etc… For (b), summer courses cost money and can limit options to gain work experience, and a ninth semester can be quite a bit more expensive – making the cost of those electives quite high instead of no cost if one had the extra schedule space.

(a) Age is not as reliable indicator of the student’s preparedness for more advanced courses than the student’s academic history and measured knowledge on prerequisites (i.e. trying the old final exams of the courses that may be skipped).
(b) The college experience may be more enjoyable with additional electives rather than boringly repeating what one knows well.
(c) So can doing well in higher level courses for which one is properly placed based on prerequisite knowledge.

25

@ucbalumnus , you keep on reiterating time and cost and ignoring the essence of being better prepared and confident for the future. When I did my undergrad in ME from IITB, I was made to go thru all core courses despite my high ranking in the Entrance exam and I feel great about that now. Also, I should not taken a loan of $80k back in the late 80s to attend HBS I guess !?! In any case, I have a simple message for both my Ds - do well and enjoy college life - by that I definitely did not mean doing more electives :wink:

26

Assuming that IITB is a well known university in a non-US country, the structure of high school and university education and how they are connected can be considerably different from what exists in the US. Many students are prepared to start university study in a course more advanced than calculus 1, so a blanket recommendation to always repeat it makes no sense. Better for students to make a more informed placement decision using the university’s syllabi and old exams for the course that may be skipped.

Also, cost of education in the US is considerably greater now than it was a generation ago. If you have the money to cover the cost of any university plus any additional semesters for your kids, then that is great for them. But most students are not in the situation of having parents that wealthy.

27

My daughter also skipped calc 1 and 2, and chem with AP credit. She’s said she probably could have self studied a bit and skipped physics 1 as well, and maybe regrets not having done so. She had no trouble with grades her first year of her engineering program and was offered tutoring jobs for three different classes this year. She WAS well prepared to take the more advanced classes. She did try old exams for university calculus classes before deciding whether to take AP credit and did not struggle with those. She had a great calc BC teacher, she had high grades on everything and a 5 on the AP exam. She knew and understood the material. No reason to retake.
The benefits? She’s taking some upper level classes in her second year and is looking at completing her bachelor’s and a co-terminal master’s in four years. She’s glad she took the credit, and seems to be enjoying college life as well. :slight_smile:
It’s certainly possible, and often makes perfect sense to take the AP credit and move on.

28

@ucbalumnus , IITB stands for the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, one of the 5 original IITs. BTW, Sundar Pichai and quite a few others in the US from the IITs are the beneficiary of the same system.

29

Here’s the deal. There is no one right answer for every student / every school. It is important to sort through all the factors described above to make an informed decision.

30

That’s @colorado_mom! I believe that is what @ucbalumnus and I are saying too. It’s a bad idea to jump headlong in without knowing you are prepared and it’s equally bad to unnecessarily repeat courses. Like @Parentof2014grad’s daughter, my son is, at least for now, on schedule to complete a coterminal BS/MS in 4 years. He’s having a blast at school. For him, not taking advantage of the advancement would have resulted in boredom and added expense with ZERO benefits.

31

Yes, everyone should check his/her ability and to advance as much as possible. My D is entering sophomore with 70 credits already, basically a whole year was saved by advanced placement. There is no reason to retake any class if you don’t need to.