What colleges actually require freshmen to have calculus in high school?

[Marian]

<p>

would it look strange to college admissions folks if a child just stopped with their calculus in 11th grade, never going to the next course available at their school?

</p>

<p>In my experience, no.</p>

<p>My daughter did this, even though math options were available to her. She planned to major in economics and knew she would need a calculus-based statistics course, so AP Stat was useless to her. And she was not interested in taking multivariable calculus at that time because she thought it was unlikely she could get credit for it in college.</p>

<p>Nobody questioned her decision, not even her GC. She got into her first choice college, which was a top-20 school.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>Here is an example of where high school calculus is not required:</p>

<p>Berkeley engineering prospective freshman information: [Prospective</a> Freshman FAQ — UC Berkeley College of Engineering](<a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/prospective-students/faq/prospective-freshman-faq.html]Prospective”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/prospective-students/faq/prospective-freshman-faq.html) . Note that high school calculus is not listed, although “four years” of high school math is strongly recommended, as is high school physics as a recommended prerequisite for college physics.</p>

<p>Berkeley engineering announcement: <a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/COE_Announcement_2012-2013.pdf[/url]”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/COE_Announcement_2012-2013.pdf&lt;/a&gt; . Note that all sample four year schedules begin with Math 1A (first semester freshman calculus), with the assumption that students are ready to take calculus. Many actually do start in a more advanced course with AP credit; they recommend reviewing old Berkeley math final exam questions when doing so: [Choosing</a> an Appropriate First Math Course — UC Berkeley College of Engineering](<a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/new-students/choosing-an-appropriate-first-math-course.html]Choosing”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/new-students/choosing-an-appropriate-first-math-course.html)</p>

[JHS]

<p>My daughter fit college4many’s profile to a T. She was placed in an accelerated math track in 7th grade, and by 10th grade was desperate to get out of math. She took a non-AP Calculus course in 11th grade, and no math in 12th grade. I doubt it looked strange to any of the colleges to which she applied, since everything in her resume, including her extensive portfolio, said “Literature/Humanities”.</p>

<p>She had to take two quarters of Calculus in college, and struggled to pass them. (Actually, she struggled not to ditch them because she hated them so much. Once she accepted that she had to be there, she had no trouble passing, and no interest in doing more than that.)</p>

<p>Interestingly, she is now in grad school in a social science field, and is working her butt off to get back up to speed in math, although not necessarily Calculus, which she appears not to need yet. Some time in the real world has given her a little more appreciation of what math is for than she had in high school or as a college freshman.</p>

[blueiguana]

<p>From post #19

Here students that tested strong in middle school, starting alg in 6th grade, finishing calc AB in jr year

</p>

<p>I’m sorry, this should read 7th grade, not 6th. I just noticed my error and it’s beyond the time in which I can edit it. I was rushing when I wrote it and didn’t read it back before I posted…</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@college4many

Have any of you had children start on an accelerated math track in 6th/7th grade but by 11th and 12th grade, have them decide they really aren’t all that into math? They were put in the position years earlier to naturally progress through AP Calc BC. Without pulling out the course handbook for our high school, I think AP Stats is counted as a math course but would it look strange to college admissions folks if a child just stopped with their calculus in 11th grade, never going to the next course available at their school?

D was on track (Geometry, Algebra/trig, pre-calculus) to take AP Calc AB this year (senior). Her pre-calc teacher denied her entrance to AP Calc, and she is taking regular Stats instead. She doesn’t care much for math, really, so is probably not disturbed by this development. Remains to be seen what the schools she applies to will have to say, although if they examine her math grades they won’t be left wondering.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>It does appear from the lack of additional examples that very few colleges require or expect students to have calculus in high school – even fewer for non-engineering majors. So students and parents need to be excessively obsessed about having calculus in high school.</p>

<p>About 335,000 students take AP calculus (AB and BC) tests each year; about 215,000 get scores of 3 or higher, including about 90,000 who get scores of 5. Compare to about 3.2 million high school graduates each year, of whom probably about 1 million are considered suitable for entering four year colleges as freshmen (although not all do). So in the context of the college bound high school students, acing calculus (5 on the AP test) is still not that common (about 9% of college bound high school students, or about 3% of all high school students; for BC (equivalent to a full year of college freshman calculus), it is more like 4% and 1.3% respectively).</p>

[Georgiatwins]

<p>I believe GT requires Calculus for admission. I do know that if a student does not start as a freshman at GT and wants to transfer at ANY time to ANY of their undergraduate program ( including liberal arts majors) that students must have taken Calc. I and II at the college level. In some cases it use to be finite Mathematics would suffice for 1 of 2 maths, but I believe it is now Calc I and II.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Anecdotally, I’ve heard Northwestern (probably from someone on CC)

</p>

<p>I find it hard to believe that 3 of Northwestern’s 6 undergraduate schools – namely, Medill (journalism), Speech (Communications, R-TV-Film and Theater), and Music – care that much if a student has taken calculus.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>[GPA</a> and Rigor of Curriculum | Admission](<a href=“Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission”>Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission) says that Georgia Tech requires four years of high school math for freshman admission; the linked PDF goes into further detail indicating that precalculus and the like are accepted as the fourth year (more advanced courses like calculus are accepted, of course).</p>

<p>For transfer admission to Georgia Tech, the linked PDF on [Transfer</a> Selection Process | Admission](<a href=“Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission”>Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission) says that all but six majors require calculus I and II, and the other six can choose between calculus I and II, or finite math and “survey of calculus”.</p>

[Creekland]

<p>I think it’s important to remember that what a school requires as its minimum and what those admitted have taken can be two very different things.</p>

<p>A student heading into Engineering (or other math dependent field) who comes from a high school that offers Calc (or more) will have been expected to take it 99% of the time if not higher.</p>

<p>A student heading into the same fields coming from a school that doesn’t offer Calculus, but otherwise having high scores, etc, giving the hint that they can handle the course, can be accepted without it because it isn’t “required.”</p>

[SteveMA]

<p>I don’t know that we have come across any schools that require calc specifically but many programs/majors require calc either in high school or college. DS is going to major in math and all of the profs he has talked to want to see at least AP Calc AB in high school, BC is preferred, however they want the kids to take the calc classes in college again since they teach things differently that will be important down the road.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@SteveMA

DS is going to major in math and all of the profs he has talked to want to see at least AP Calc AB in high school, BC is preferred, however they want the kids to take the calc classes in college again since they teach things differently that will be important down the road.

</p>

<p>At what colleges? Seems like that would apply only to places like Caltech and Harvey Mudd, where “freshman calculus” is more like real analysis.</p>

<p>Berkeley’s math department does not encourage repeating freshman calculus for those with scores of 5 on the AP test (3 or 4 is a different story): [Advanced</a> Placement (AP) Examinations | Department of Mathematics at University of California Berkeley](<a href=“http://math.berkeley.edu/courses/choosing/ap-exams]Advanced”>http://math.berkeley.edu/courses/choosing/ap-exams) . Even a few decades ago, Berkeley was the kind of school where one could find top math students who had completed all of the lower division math courses in high school and community college and were ready to take junior level math courses like real analysis as freshmen; they would have been bored retaking freshman calculus.</p>

<p>It is also worth noting that having had high school calculus is not required for math majors at Berkeley, although it is likely that most math majors at Berkeley have had high school calculus.</p>

[SteveMA]

<p>Every school he is applying to has said the same thing. He wants to be an actuary so some colleges it’s an actuarial science major, other’s it’s an applied math major. From your link it sounds pretty much like what DS has heard, sure, you CAN start at a higher level math but if you read what it says they prefer you did not. If you actually talked to the math profs I’m sure they would tell you the same thing.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@SteveMA

From your link it sounds pretty much like what DS has heard, sure, you CAN start at a higher level math but if you read what it says they prefer you did not.

</p>

<p>The link basically says that for students who scored a 3 or 4 on the AP test; for students who scored a 5, it basically says to go ahead and skip.</p>

<p>It is likely that they assume that the 5 scorers are top math students who can easily self-learn any “gaps”, but that 3 or 4 scorers may have trouble or may not have learned the material as well as they should.</p>

[SteveMA]

<p>“While the Math Department has found that a score of 3 or 4 shows that a student is ready to take college calculus, it is not an accurate indicator of how a student will do in a college math course. High school calculus is not necessarily the same as college calculus. The professor’s expectations of what the students should know and have internalized (and not just memorized) can differ greatly from what high school students might expect”</p>

<p>Read between the lines–ask the professors what this really means–it means-sure, you got a good AP score but we want to teach you how to do calculus our way…</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@SteveMA

Read between the lines–ask the professors what this really means–it means-sure, you got a good AP score but we want to teach you how to do calculus our way…

Wait - there’s more than one way?</p>

[sevmom]

<p>UVa engineering son had 5 on BC calculus but his advisor at orientation suggested he take calc 2 (I think that’s what it was) his first semester even though I believe he could have skipped it. He was glad he did as it took some pressure off.
S2 is at Virginia Tech in engineering. Here is their info about high school math prep expected as an example.
[College</a> of Engineering | Virginia Tech](<a href=“http://www.admiss.vt.edu/majors/index.php/majors/college/coe]College”>http://www.admiss.vt.edu/majors/index.php/majors/college/coe)</p>

[warbrain]

<p>My guess is that the professors that SteveMA are talking about want freshman with calculus to take an honors calculus that would use Spivak or Apostol as the textbook. It doesn’t seem like Berkeley has this, but a lot of schools do. And in fact, my dad, who’s a math professor himself, strongly discouraged me from taking honors calculus at my state flagship because he felt I would be repeating too much material.</p>

[bovertine]

<p>Sylvan- I’m assuming you were being facetious :)</p>

[mathinokc]

<p>At least at Rice, the stated policy is exactly the opposite of what you suggest – they want you to take the most advanced course you can.</p>

<p>Here’s the policy at Rice:

1. Basic principle: If you want to take calculus, you should enroll in a course as
   advanced as you can possibly handle. If you find you are in over your head, you
   may easily drop down to a more elementary course. (A transition in the other
   direction is obviously much more difficult to manage.)
2. No calculus background at all: You should begin with MATH 101 or 111.
3. Advanced placement credit:
   a. Grade of 4 or 5 on AB test. You have credit for MATH 101 and you
   may start with MATH 102.
   b. Grade of 4 or 5 on BC test: You have credit for MATH 101-102 and you
   may start with MATH 211 or 212. You should consider MATH 221 if you
   love math.
4. No advanced placement credit: You may have taken some calculus, however,
   and probably should enroll in a course beyond MATH 101. Consult with a
   Mathematics professor for advice.
5. Transfer credit from another university: Consult with Prof. Jones for advice.
6. Have taken Multivariable calculus (but might not have credit): Talk to a MATH
   advisor. You should strongly consider MATH 221-222 (see the discussion on the
   first page).
   Math 101 – Calc I
   Math 102 – Calc II
   Math 211 – ODE & Linear
   Math 212 – Multi-variable
   Math 221-222 – Honors Calculus (multivariable plus problem solving)</p>

<hr>

<p>At MIT, my daughter’s friends take 18.024 their first semester, which is Calc II with theory.</p>

<p>The placement page at MIT doesn’t seem to express a preference either way (start from the beginning in Calc I or go on with the highest placement), just noting that if you have credit for 18.01 (due to AP, usually) and choose to re-take 18.01 then you lose 12 units of math but gain 3 units of elective.</p>

<p>However, they offer 3 levels of Calc I (18.01, 18.01a for repeaters, and 18.014 with theory) and 5 levels of Calc II (18.02, 18.02a for repeaters, 18.022 with a math focus, 18.023 with applications, and 18.024 with theory).</p>

<hr>

<p>At Harvard, the advice on the website [Harvard</a> Mathematics Department : 21, 23, 25, or 55?](<a href=“http://www.math.harvard.edu/pamphlets/freshmenguide.html]Harvard”>http://www.math.harvard.edu/pamphlets/freshmenguide.html) seems to imply that a 4 or a 5 in AP Calc BC plus sufficient math placement score means you should NOT repeat. There are, however, 4 levels of classes to choose from next, including what is considered the hardest math class in the nation (Math 55).</p>

<hr>

<p>Williams College has a flow chart that seems to direct students to skip forward in the sequence if you’ve had any experience at all with calculus.</p>

<p>[Williams</a> College Registrar’s Office](<a href=“Williams College”>Williams College)
Note the two levels of Multi, based on BC scores.</p>