<p>Vandy, Emory, Duke, Tulane,</p>
<p>Harvard is not really good for these three…
3. Small student-to-teacher ratio - Harvard reports a very small ratio, but they count TF’s (teaching fellow = teaching assistant) as professors, so beware of that statistic.
4. Small class sizes - Harvard has some classes with over 1,000 students.
5. No TAs teaching! - Definitely not true for Harvard.
Don’t get me wrong, Harvard is an AMAZING school with SO many opportunities (in fact, it was my second choice school, behind Yale), but its undergraduate focus is lacking, and if that is important to you (it seems to be), then you might want to rethink about the school.<br>
Columbia also has a “larger school feel”, as does Penn, but both have stronger undergrad focuses than Harvard (I would say Penn>Columbia>Harvard for undergrad focus)
Chicago is very high pressured, but meets the rest of your criteria well. Also, their grad school placement is somewhat hurt by the severe grade deflation that occurs at Chicago.
MIT is also very high pressure, and I believe that it doesn’t focus too much on undergrads, but if it close to your heart then go for it.
I can’t comment on Duke, Emory, Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane, or Occidental since I don’t really know too much about those schools, and I know very little about Stanford as well, although from what I hear about it I think it fits your criteria nicely.
Princeton has an AMAZING undergraduate focus, but is very high pressure and Princeton is tiny (less than 30,000 residents as opposed to 600,000 in the Greater New Haven area [note - these numbers are according to wikipedia; I was under the impression that New Haven has around 200,000 residents, but I don’t really know how they define “Greater New Haven Area”]).</p>
<p>I think NYU is too big for me 
Plus, isn’t it a city campus?</p>
<p>I didn’t take into account the whole undergrad vs. grad focus, so thank you Dan! I’ll make sure to take this into account now. However, I also feel like it would be dependent upon me to get as much attention as possible from my advisors, etc, no matter where I ended up going to school.</p>
<p>And Chicago and MIT also put me off by their competitive environment…however, I never understood what people meant by grade deflation? Do they use negative curves?</p>
<p>I’ve never heard too much of pressure at Princeton, what would it compare to? The competitive nature of Cornell, or not quite there?</p>
<p>There is nothing greater about the New Haven area.</p>
<p>Besides Yale, New Haven is a city you pass through on the way to someplace else.</p>
<p>Pressure at Princeton didn’t used to be so prevelant until they instituted their grade deflation policy (sometime in the past five years - I’m not sure exactly when). Basically, Princeton’s policy is that only 35% of students can get A’s in a given department, meaning that if you are in a class of particularly bright students and are therefore in the 40th percentile (even in your average on tests and assignments is a in the A range), you will receive a B. I don’t know if this is a standard grade deflation policy, but basically grade deflation means that your actual grade imay be (significantly) lower than the grades you have received on assignments.
Also, NYU does not have a campus and is a very large school.
(In case you were wondering, Yale and Princeton both have great undergraduate focuses [probably the best in the world, along with Dartmouth], but vastly different environments)</p>
<p>Yes, I take back the NYU suggestion. No real campus.</p>
<p>Dan, can you elaborate on the vastly different environments of Princeton, Yale, and Dartmouth?</p>
<p>So out of my list, are Princeton, UChicago, and MIT the only ones that have grade deflation?</p>
<p>I thought you wanted warm weather?</p>
<p><a href=“also,%20the%20campus%20is%20really%20small,%20and%20I%20do%20believe%20that%20TA’s%20teach,%20although%20I%20am%20not%20sure%20about%20that.%20Columbia%20isn’t%20particularly%20known%20for%20its%20undergraduate%20focus,%20which%20is%20one%20of%20the%20reasons%20I%20didn’t%20mention%20it,%20but%20if%20that’s%20not%20too%20big%20of%20a%20deal%20for%20you,%20it%20is%20also%20a%20great%20fit”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Columbia while not an LAC has a very strong undergrad focus, as much if not more than Penn’s. The classes are almost all taught by profs, only a few core class sections are not (and in these cases the phd student is often fantastic). The classes are what you’d expect from a top college, small and taught by distinguished faculty. I never felt like I was not receiving enough attention from professors. The student body is large, but most are grad students who you barely ever see or interact with unless you opt into taking grad level classes. Bad undergrad focus is a stereotype of large research universities (which Columbia is), but the undergrad focus is robust at Columbia, and most people agree that this is also true at UChicago, which is a large research univ. Large research unis having weak undergrad focus is a heuristic not a rule. Upenn fits your criteria well, apart from the competitive vs. collaborative. Penn is known to be one of the most pre-professional schools out there and Wharton’s environment is highly competitive.</p>
<p>@Metallika - Those three are particularly known for their rampant grade deflation, which the rest of the schools are not. Most of them probably either have grade inflation or are somewhere in the middle, although I do not know too much about the southern universities (harvard, yale, columbia, and penn do NOT have grade deflation).
@Chardo - First of all, although Hew Haven is probably not the most “exciting” city (even though it is the 2nd largest city in CT), it is particularly known for its amazing restaraunt scene (especially pizza, but also great ethnic food). That might be another reason to visit New Haven aside from Yale. With regards to your question about Yale, Princeton, and Dartmouth, I will try to answer to the best of my ability, although a lot of the answer lies in personal “fit” and the character of the student body. Also, note that Brown is another school known for undergraduate focus.
- Dartmouth - let me preface this comment by saying that I have never visited Dartmouth, so most of the information I have is second-hand and subject to inaccuracies. There isn’t much going in in frigid Hanover, but Dartmouth seems to attract students particularly interested in winter athletics. In fact, Dartmouth is often thought of as a jock school among the ivies (which is interesting, b/c sports are more popular at some of the other ivies, but no one asked my opinion). Dartmouth is also known for its drinking and fraternity scene. The average Dartmouth student (and now I’m getting into very risky territory - sorry for any stereotypes that I will espouse, and please correct me if you have any additional information that I am not privy to) probably loves the cold, is smart, somewhat athletic, and loves to party. Obviously this type exists at other ivies and top schools, but the real distinguishing feature of Dartmouth’s students is their love of the cold and winter athletics. Dartmouth is also the smallest ivy.
- Princeton - Princeton also has a very small-town feel, but, although it is only slightly larger than Dartmouth, seems to have a lot more going on on campus. Additionally, it is only a one hour train ride from NYC. Princeton students are known to be very studious, brilliant, and competitive. They are stereo-typed as white, preppy, and snobby, but I don’t really agree with the stereotype, although Princeton definitely maintains some of the “old boys club” feel. Eating Clubs (basically frats where juniors and seniors live, dine, and party) run the scene at Princeton, which means a lot of drinking just like Dartmouth. However, Princeton is less “jocky” and, although it does field some excellent D1 sports teams, has numerous other popular clubs and activities available.<br>
- Yale - Yale is more liberal and “artsy” (not artsy in the conventional sense, but Yale is known particularly for performing arts and a capella) than either Princeton or Dartmouth (the two most conservative ivies). Yalies are known as being very laid back (pretty much the opposite of Princeton in that category), and extremely content and happy students (Yale has the highest freshmen retention rate of any school in the world, and around 90% of students say that they would return to Yale if given the chance, which is much higher than most schools). Drinking is also big at Yale, but Yalies who choose not to imbibe never feel left out of the social scene because there are so many other activities (the university sponsers several great parties throughout the year, and subsidizes any concerts, museums, or other cultural attractions which students wish to attend. Also, performances of all kinds are constantly occuring at Yale). (My impression is that Princetonians also have lots to do other than drink, but drinking almost exclusively runs social life at Dartmouth.) Yalies are also known for being very open and accepting of their peers and others (one of the reasons the homosexual population is so large), which is good, because Yalies are known to be extremely diverse (in every sense of the word). New Haven is definitely a more “bustling” city than either Princeton or Hanover, and provides a decent amount of things to do (plus the amazing restaraunts - New Haven food is truly terrific!).
Just as an aside, since I mentioned Brown as also having an undergraduate focus, Brown is probably the most liberal, “artsy” (this time conventionally) ivy. To be completely honest, I found Brown students to be very “out there” (again, not all students, but noticeably more than at Princeton, Yale, or any of the other ivies), but, although Brown is definitely not for everyone, the students who choose Brown generally love it.</p>
<p>@confidentialcoll - sorry, I assume you know more about Columbia than I do. I guess you can put Penn = Columbia for undergraduate focus, but the fact that there are soooo many more grad students than undergrads (and that not all classes are taught by professors - not that TA’s are bad; in fact, some people might not like undergraduate focused schools) still makes me a little wary. In any case, as far as the ivies are concerned I will still stand by my assertion that Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, and Brown have the best undergrad focuses. That is not to say that they are the best schools, and I would argue that there is definitely a seperation between Yale and Princeton (as “more” top tier schools with even more impressive students and professors) and Dartmouth and Brown (in my opinion, one step below).</p>
<p>A page or so ago you asked about Hopkins’ writing program. Actually they are supposed to have an excellent creative writing program for undergraduates. I forget what they call it but Mary Jo Salter (poet) and a well known novelist, among others, teach there. If you get a chance to visit one small college and one bigger place overnight early on and visit classes it may help you to sort out how important the small classes are to you. The list you are now discussing includes a lot of larger universities and I wonder how small the classes are.</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids - I do want warm weather, but considering we have only found 4 or so universities that fit all of my criteria, I would be willing to give up warm weather if the city is big enough (Chicago) or academics are intense enough (P-ton or Yale).</p>
<p>@Hitch - Thanks for the info! Small classes are very important for me for writing classes, since I believe the ability to discuss literature and to workshop my pieces is a very important part of being a creative writing type major. For my pre-med courses I know most labs are small even at big universities (info from a friend at UNC, correct me if I’m wrong), and for other classes I wouldn’t mind having a larger lecture hall. </p>
<p>However, most, if not all, of my universities have a very high percentage of classes that have less than around twenty-thirty students in them.</p>
<p>@confidentialcoll</p>
<p>Since when is Manhattan a warm region???</p>
<p>Manhattan is one of the colder boroughs in the winter. Are you an OOS?</p>
<p>Rice
Claremont McKenna (part of a 5 college consortium that totals around 6,000 students)
Wesleyan
Vanderbilt
Washu</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>@Kelly92 please reread my two posts in this thread, when did I ever claim Manhattan was warm</p>
<p>^^^Sorry it’s late at night but I skipped over the word “apart”.</p>
<p>Isn’t Wesleyan located in a place that is small AND cold? No thank you 
I could take a large city in a cold place, but not both haha.</p>
<p>I’ll make sure to check out Claremont McKenna though.</p>
<p>And if the OOS question was directed towards me, I live in NC.</p>
<p>something tells me your perspective will change after two years in New Hampshire. :)</p>
<p>How so? I won’t be willing to go anywhere cold anymore? ;p</p>
<p>Probably actually…I haaate snow. I lived in Wisconsin for 6 years, and while I loved the state it was too freakin’ cold for me D:</p>